Electric cars?

[Chronos-Plutus]

Nah man remember that it's way more efficient to burn fossil fuels in a power station than a car. The greenies would get on board.



You really need to calm down.

I'm trying to make two points to you: Firstly, that this number-crunching you've listed, no matter who it's from or what it tells you, has a tremendous amount of utterly unknowable assumptions built in. How do you know how the market's going to react to a change in price before you change the price? You can't. Ergo, no matter what something like this says, it's BS.

I would be saying the same thing if the conclusion was the opposite and I have no doubt there's something done out there that says that electric vehicles make sense etc etc. It will be just as BS as anything else done in the same way. I have DONE these things myself.


The other thing is that you're not interpreting it or what I'm saying correctly. It's actually saying the same thing that I have been saying all along - that it is the increase in PEAK demand that is the problem. I've been saying this the whole time!

I'm in total agreeance that an increase in peak demand would need an infrastructure buildout. That's not even a matter of opinion - it's physics. What I'm saying to you is that if we have a way to minimise (or eliminate) that increase in peak demand then we thus eliminate the need for the infrastructure buildout. Hence why I keep talking about charging the cars overnight, not at 7 in the evening.

You can spend more time on this. This case is closed for me. My concerns were validated by KPMG analysts and the Australian energy peak association reviewed and endorsed it.

That is good enough for me to now move on and focus my time on more rewarding information and knowledge.

You can carry on with Smurf and Value Collector in their fantasy.

 

[Smurf1976]

This case is closed for me

The case might be closed for you but rest assured that rather a lot of companies, with individual market caps in the $ billions, aren't seeing the same problems.

Nobody's still using one of these, right?



Times change, technology moves on, things get done, society progresses. If people want to listen to classical music or whatever from hundreds of years ago then sure, no problem with that, but a time will come where internal combustion engines are about as common as acetylene lamps are today. Not very.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Thank you so much for sparing your valuable time and sharing your ideas with the rest of us here on ASF on Electric cars. I will be able to tell my descendants that I once shared a comment thread with you.

I believe you to be as brilliant as you do and am much in admiration of you.

From a previous post you said you have moved sideways from what appears to have been a fitter and turner which is an admirable trade (and one pursued by many of my friends) to being from reading between the lines a real estate agent for technology.

I should warn you to stay away from dealing with .... in your pursuit of .....

You sound as if you know what I was going to say so I won't waste type on it anyway.

Do please pick it up tomorrow if you can spare us the time. It is riveting. The etymology of the word "rivet" is from Middle Dutch "wriven" to turn or grind then having been a fitter and turner you probably know that.

I do hope that my interjection in to your undoubted brilliance does not take away from your flow tomorrow. The word "flow" which you would know is from Old High German flouwen "to rinse, wash".

Which is now what I must do with the dishes as we have just had a power blackout here at Casa Gumnut.

gg

My concerns were validated by the KPMG analysts and the Australian peak energy association reviewed and endorsed their position with publication. The case is closed for me now. That is the main thing. So now it is prudent to focus my time on stocks and other themes. Thank you for your acknowledgement, I think I can provide a stronger contribution to the forum in other areas of financial discussion now.

I am a man that has vast interests, this electric vehicle discussion can have a rest for a while.

I can see why the UK weren't happy with the EU dictating energy policy

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

The case might be closed for you but rest assured that rather a lot of companies, with individual market caps in the $ billions, aren't seeing the same problems.

Nobody's still using one of these, right?

I don't care Smurf. The case is closed for me and you carry on with what you like, it makes no difference to me. These companies must convince their shareholders, I will not be one of their shareholders and our government will not be creating zombie corporations.

 

[Value Collector]

My numbers were just a calculation that took me a few minutes just to get a rough idea. The KPMG analysts validated my concerns, the Australian energy peak association reviewed and endorsed it..

No, as I pointed out KPMG’s numbers are for the year 2046, after years of population growth, and they include diesel.

Your claims were based 2020’s population and were only

Your assumptions were well off.

Also, If I listened to KPMG’s opinion I would be $2 Million poorer right now.

if you look back at the FMG thread from 2016 I bet big against KPMG’s opinion on Iron Ore when FMG was $3 a share, today it’s $16.

But yeah, feel free to trust a bunch of accountants who write reports for the highest bidder among any lobbyists or industry group that wants to sway government opinion in a certain direction.

KPMG only care about earning consultancy fees, and will write any report you want them too.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

No, as I pointed out KPMG’s numbers are for the year 2046, after years of population growth, and they include diesel.

Your claims were based 2020’s population and were only

Your assumptions were well off.

Also, If I listened to KPMG’s opinion I would be $2 Million poorer right now.

if you look back at the FMG thread from 2016 I bet big against KPMG’s opinion on Iron Ore when FMG was $3 a share, today it’s $16.

But yeah, feel free to trust a bunch of accountants who write reports for the highest bidder among any lobbyists or industry group that wants to sway government opinion in a certain direction.

KPMG only care about earning consultancy fees, and will write any report you want them too.

It's over. I have more important things to look at now. I am comfortable with the validation from KPMG.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't care Smurf. The case is closed for me and you carry on with what you like, it makes no difference to me. These companies must convince their shareholders, I will not be one of their shareholders and our government will not be creating zombie corporations.

If there is going to be huge amounts of demand for electricity that results in higher utilization rates of assets from paying customers, why wouldnt you want to be a shareholder in those companies.

I mean if we thought that by 2046 demand for Coca-Cola was going to be 120% higher, and more coke factories would need to be built, Coca-Cola shares would be a great investment.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

If there is going to be huge amounts of demand for electricity that results in higher utilization rates of assets from paying customers, why wouldnt you want to be a shareholder in those companies.

I mean if we thought that by 2046 demand for Coca-Cola was going to be 120% higher, and more coke factories would need to be built, Coca-Cola shares would be a great investment.

The peak energy association in Australia endorsed KPMGs report with publication.

It's over. The peak energy association represents industry and big business. My concerns were validated, we need to build an enormous amount of electrical capacity and it is going to come at a great cost.

I have nothing more to say. I have more important things to look at. Like actual stock analysis.

 

[Value Collector]

The peak energy association in Australia endorsed KPMGs report with publication.

The peak energy association represents industry and big business.

And you don’t think these groups have their own agendas and lobbyists and reasons to commission such reports???

anyway once again you can not semi to see the details of where you are wrong, you read headlines and assume it proves your point, without seeing the differences between what you are saying and what the actual report says.

hahaha, good luck with your stock analysis, you will need it, don’t trust KPMG reports when it comes to that either, other wise you will be sitting with those Fmg shorters who’s lunch I ate.

 

[over9k]

It's over. I have more important things to look at now. I am comfortable with the validation from KPMG.

Then you're making a major mistake. You don't even appear to understand the difference between peak & off-peak consumption and its relationship with power generation & infrastructure.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

And you don’t think these groups have their own agendas and lobbyists and reasons to commission such reports???
anyway once again you can not semi to see the details of where you are wrong, you read headlines and assume it proves your point, without seeing the differences between what you are saying and what the actual report says.

hahaha, good luck with your stock analysis, you will need it, don’t trust KPMG reports when it comes to that either, other wise you will be sitting with those Fmg shorters who’s lunch I ate.

This is why there is a stock market. You invest in what you like, I will invest in what I like.

You don't have to subscribe to my opinion, and I don't have to subscribe to yours.

I can accept and reject what information I like, and you can accept and reject what information you like.

Trade and invest according to your own research, homework, and beliefs; or seek advice from a financial advisor/accountant.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Then you're making a major mistake. You don't even appear to understand the difference between peak & off-peak consumption and its relationship with power generation & infrastructure.

I understand it and KPMG have addressed it in their report.

The vast majority of electrical capacity over the last decade has been solar and wind in Australia, to support day supply and demand. Coal and gas stations have been closing down.

The sun doesn't shine at night, wind capacity factor is ~30%; baseload capacity at night/off-peak is no where near enough to cover the electrical capacity gap required. Our network infrastructure and capacity was never designed for peak supply at night. Thus, all the installed capacity that will be required as highlighted in the KPMG report.

I am not chasing red herrings, it is over. I have more important projects and endeavours to focus on.

Reject the report and information if you wish, I don't care. Stay in this echo chamber with Smurf and Value Collector, I am moving on with more fruitful endeavours.

 

[over9k]

Ok. You have someone that owns a tesla and solar panels, someone that's been trained to do cost-benefit analyses, and even someone that used to run a power station trying to tell you that there is a bit more to this than just punching numbers into a spreadsheet, but ignore us if you wish.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Ok. You have someone that owns a tesla and solar panels, someone that's been trained to do cost-benefit analyses, and even someone that used to run a power station trying to tell you that there is a bit more to this than just punching numbers into a spreadsheet, but ignore us if you wish.

Ok. You have someone that owns a tesla and solar panels, someone that's been trained to do cost-benefit analyses, and even someone that used to run a power station trying to tell you that there is a bit more to this than just punching numbers into a spreadsheet, but ignore us if you wish.

I will take the word of a team of KPMG analysts who were given access to Victorian energy data and information; paid to carry out a study by the Victorian government; had their research reviewed and endorsed by the peak energy association who represents big business. Also Sydney University have published a paper claiming it will cost Australia hundreds of billions.

This all reinforces my own preliminary opinions. My opinions based on studying at 3 Universities and working for 5 multinational corporations; within the fields of engineering and finance.

And you expect me to just disregard all this and believe some guy that owns a Tesla, some person called Smurf that copies and pastes from AEMO and tells me to invest in companies that install mini recharge stations in residential streets; and yourself who claims to be some sort of economic analyst.

Wake up to yourself mate. Sprawler and I are probably on the same page; however he is more accommodating to people who are trolls and post nonsense on their fantastic uptopia.

 

[over9k]

Ok, suit yourself.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Ok, suit yourself.

As I said also; suit yourself in what information you want to accept.

I never needed your input from the start when I have access to expert opinion to validate and reinforce my own educated and informed opinion.

 

[sptrawler]

Jeep Wrangler to be available as plug in electric, that should help sneak up on those nude sunbathers.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/jeep-teases-plug-in-hybrid-wrangler-4xe-123917.html?trackLink=SMH2

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Jeep Wrangler to be available as plug in electric, that should help sneak up on those nude sunbathers.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/jeep-teases-plug-in-hybrid-wrangler-4xe-123917.html?trackLink=SMH2

Does the Wrangler hybrid charge its battery with petrol, like the Lexus hybrids.

 

[moXJO]

Jeep Wrangler to be available as plug in electric, that should help sneak up on those nude sunbathers.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/jeep-teases-plug-in-hybrid-wrangler-4xe-123917.html?trackLink=SMH2

Jeep, God I'd rather put wheels on my toaster.

 

[Smurf1976]

Also Sydney University have published a paper claiming it will cost Australia hundreds of billions.

Over the next 20 years we'll spend ~$500 billion to purchase replacement petrol or diesel light vehicles and we're currently spending around $20 billion a year on petroleum fuels so yes, it's going to cost $ billions that's a given. Then there's the cost of running service stations, maintaining the cars and so on.

How to spend those $ billions is the question.