Electric cars? for Aspies, Narcissists and Power Grid people

[Barry2020]

Wants to limit his impact on the Environment so he bought a Tesla





Gold medal stuff!

 

[rederob]

Wants to limit his impact on the Environment so he bought a Tesla





Gold medal stuff!

Tesla's will be using solar to produce their batteries.
And every article about EVs being worse for the environment than ICE vehicles has been many times debunked.

 

[Barry2020]

Tesla's will be using solar to produce their batteries.
And every article about EVs being worse for the environment than ICE vehicles has been many times debunked.

OK CCPRob. Tesla's are far worse for the environment than ordinary Cars, both in ongoing usage and the by-products of production.

Electric Cars maybe eventually better for the environment but Teslas (and Elon Musk) aren't.

 

[rederob]

OK CCPRob. Tesla's are far worse for the environment than ordinary Cars, both in ongoing usage and the by-products of production.

Electric Cars maybe eventually better for the environment but Teslas (and Elon Musk) aren't.

Making uninformed comments is not especially helpful unless it forms part of your comedy routine.

 

[Barry2020]

Making uninformed comments is not especially helpful unless it forms part of your comedy routine.

OK CCPRob. We both have connections to UQ, that great bastion of CCP propoganda. Mine not as an employee.

It's Sunday night, unlik you I'm not retired, so I can't win a debate through attrition. I'll be back tomorrow to prove how environmently unfriendly Teslas and Elon Musk are.

Enjoy the Great Wall and I'll enjoy my Sunday night without Xi Jingping thanks

Tesla taking advantage of CCP slave labour now too?

Cya on the morrow

 

[Value Collector]

Wants to limit his impact on the Environment so he bought a Tesla !

Yep, check out this video, it’s a summary of the environmental benefits of EV’s, and all the actual scientific sources are linked in the videos descriptions.

(Haters are going to hate though, I can tell you have some irrational anti Tesla feeling for some reason, so I am not expecting to be able to get you to see the light)

 

[basilio]

This proposal by AGL brings together many elements of the electric car/ home charging/virtual battery story.

AGL bets on electric vehicles subscription service to boost Australia's uptake

Energy company will provide car, charging station as well as insurance and registration for flat fee, as research points to upfront cost as deterrent

Graham Readfearn

@readfearn

Email
Tue 8 Sep 2020 17.32 EDT Last modified on Tue 8 Sep 2020 19.05 EDT

The Hyundai Kona electric model, one of the cars available under AGL’s subscription electric car service
AGL, one of Australia’s largest energy companies, has launched the country’s first subscription service for electric cars in a move that the EV industry hopes may boost the nation’s low uptake rate.

The company announced a pilot phase for the new scheme, which also includes installation of charging stations at customers’ homes, to cover Sydney and Melbourne.
The industry group the Electric Vehicle Council, which last month announced sales of electric vehicles had tripled between 2018 and 2019, said AGL’s move was a glimpse into the future of the electric vehicle market.

AGL said it hoped the subscription service, available only to its own customers, would remove the barriers for people to drive electric cars – namely, the high upfront costs and the desire for a charging station at home.

Under the service, subscribers pay an $800 set-up fee and then a weekly price for a car starting at $299 that includes the installation of a charging station as well as insurance, maintenance and registration.

The AGL executive John Chambers told Guardian Australia the company was looking ahead at the rapid growth of electric vehicles and the role the vehicle’s batteries could play to store energy at homes as well as power vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...bscription-service-to-boost-australias-uptake

 

[sptrawler]

Under the service, subscribers pay an $800 set-up fee and then a weekly price for a car starting at $299 that includes the installation of a charging station as well as insurance, maintenance and registration.

That's $15,000/ annum.
Ring them up and tell them they are dreaming.

 

[basilio]

That's $15,000/ annum.

I'm not sure how expensive that is. Rego and insurance would be around $2000 a year I guess ?
Clearly have to see the fine print.
May be opportunities to trial for a few months. If for arguments sake the car was being used for high mileage applications the petrol savings could be very important.
Perhaps useful for a commercial fleet set up ?
In AGL's shoes I would be wanting a few thousand customers just to see how the virtual battery bank idea works.

You can cancel after one month if you wish.

https://www.agl.com.au/get-connected/electric-vehicles/ev-subscription#caroptions

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not sure how expensive that is. Rego and insurance would be around $2000 a year I guess ?
Clearly have to see the fine print.
May be opportunities to trial for a few months. If for arguments sake the car was being used for high mileage applications the petrol savings could be very important.
Perhaps useful for a commercial fleet set up ?
In AGL's shoes I would be wanting a few thousand customers just to see how the virtual battery bank idea works.

You can cancel after one month if you wish.

https://www.agl.com.au/get-connected/electric-vehicles/ev-subscription#caroptions

Oh you get the car as well, my bad,that puts a different bent on it, a bit like leasing the car.
Pretty clever by AGL they get to sell the charge power and probably have access to the storage.
Interesting.

 

[basilio]

Pretty clever by AGL they get to sell the charge power and probably have access to the storage.

Neat isn't it ? They control the charging of the car so that means that can decide when to turn on the power. The more people use the car the more power they sell - and it will be O/N .

I guess ? they can also access the battery power when it is plugged in.
IMV I think a good market for this project would be business's with multiple car leases.

--------------------------
Found a quotation for a novated lease package on a $48k car from Toyota
https://www.toyotafleetmanagement.com.au/novated-lease/calculator

 

[sptrawler]

Neat isn't it ? They control the charging of the car so that means that can decide when to turn on the power. The more people use the car the more power they sell - and it will be O/N .

I guess ? they can also access the battery power when it is plugged in.
IMV I think a good market for this project would be business's with multiple car leases.

--------------------------
Found a quotation for a novated lease package on a $48k car from Toyota
https://www.toyotafleetmanagement.com.au/novated-lease/calculator

It actually will probably be the way of the future, it costs $x but there is no depreciation which happens when you buy a car especially with battery degradation over time , also the problem of the battery replacement becomes AGL's not the owners.
So in reality if someone has to have a car, it is a viable option IMO.

 

[Smurf1976]

As a concept it's not overly different to AGL's recent home battery offering.

Customer gets a heavily subsidised battery but AGL gets a customer and the use of said battery. Everyone happy.

The details differ but other companies have broadly similar thoughts too. As a concept it has much in common with the idea that until fairly recently pretty much all mobile phones were sold on a "plan" which didn't involve the consumer paying up front for the phone but which did tie them to that carrier. Similar business concept.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

and the market decides:

Hertz plans to sell a third of its US electric vehicle fleet and reinvest in petrol-powered cars due to weak demand and high repair costs for its battery-powered options.

The sales of 20,000 EVs began last month and will continue over the course of this year, the rental giant said on Thursday US time in a regulatory filing. Hertz will record a non-cash charge in its fourth-quarter results of about $US245 million ($366 million) related to incremental net depreciation expense.

 

[Value Collector]

and the market decides:

Hertz plans to sell a third of its US electric vehicle fleet and reinvest in petrol-powered cars due to weak demand and high repair costs for its battery-powered options.

The sales of 20,000 EVs began last month and will continue over the course of this year, the rental giant said on Thursday US time in a regulatory filing. Hertz will record a non-cash charge in its fourth-quarter results of about $US245 million ($366 million) related to incremental net depreciation expense.

I don‘t think it says anything about the general market.

I mean I love my Tesla and would never, ever under any circumstances go back to a petrol car for my own private vehicle, but when I travel I generally rent petrol cars.

the main reason I rent a petrol car is just price, I mean the rental car companies charge a very high price for Tesla‘s, and if all I want is a car to pick up at the airport and run around in for half a day I am not going to over pay for it.

but when if comes to my everyday car it’s a different story.

 

[divs4ever]

I don‘t think it says anything about the general market.

I mean I love my Tesla and would never, ever under any circumstances go back to a petrol car for my own private vehicle, but when I travel I generally rent petrol cars.

the main reason I rent a petrol car is just price, I mean the rental car companies charge a very high price for Tesla‘s, and if all I want is a car to pick up at the airport and run around in for half a day I am not going to over pay for it.

but when if comes to my everyday car it’s a different story.

now one thing the majority are missing is ,

it is just not only EVs putting extra pressure on the grid , you have a plague of surveillance/ monitoring devices , more and more electric powered tools overall grid demands are creeping up and up even without EV charging .. so how it the grid going ( in being upgraded/made robust )

 

[Value Collector]

now one thing the majority are missing is ,

it is just not only EVs putting extra pressure on the grid , you have a plague of surveillance/ monitoring devices , more and more electric powered tools overall grid demands are creeping up and up even without EV charging .. so how it the grid going ( in being upgraded/made robust )

It really comes down to a time of day thing, if EV’s are being charged after 10pm at night, or during the middle of the day it is actually good for the grid.

The grid gets built so that it can supply the maximum peak demand normally at around 6pm each day, but for the majority of the rest of the day it is not being utilised At a high capacity.

if we attempt to add demand during peak times, we will have to spend a lot of money to increase capacity, but if we add demand to the low capacity times we don’t have to spend extra money, infact costs can decrease due to high utilisation rates of existing capacity.

 

[Smurf1976]

if we attempt to add demand during peak times, we will have to spend a lot of money to increase capacity, but if we add demand to the low capacity times we don’t have to spend extra money, infact costs can decrease due to high utilisation rates of existing capacity.

Where the concern lies is with ensuring users actually do this.

For it to work as intended, we need an very high portion of users to adopt that approach of not charging during the peaks. Reason being there's not much spare capacity as it is, and what does exist will be needed to support public fast chargers etc.

The concern among those like me looking at the technical side of this isn't with whether that's possible, whether it can be done, since very clearly it can be. Rather, the concern's about whether it actually happens in practice.

Reason being a large portion of consumers are on flat rate electricity pricing, giving them no direct financial incentive to charge at any particular time given they'll pay the same price regardless. That's not everyone, many are on Time Of Use (TOU) pricing with varying rates, but there's enough on flat rates to be a concern given the plausible tendency of users to arrive home late in the afternoon then plug the car in straight away.

So it's one of those things a bit like littering. Easily fixed in theory but it's definitely possible to stuff it up.

 

[Value Collector]

Where the concern lies is with ensuring users actually do this.

For it to work as intended, we need an very high portion of users to adopt that approach of not charging during the peaks. Reason being there's not much spare capacity as it is, and what does exist will be needed to support public fast chargers etc.

The concern among those like me looking at the technical side of this isn't with whether that's possible, whether it can be done, since very clearly it can be. Rather, the concern's about whether it actually happens in practice.

Reason being a large portion of consumers are on flat rate electricity pricing, giving them no direct financial incentive to charge at any particular time given they'll pay the same price regardless. That's not everyone, many are on Time Of Use (TOU) pricing with varying rates, but there's enough on flat rates to be a concern given the plausible tendency of users to arrive home late in the afternoon then plug the car in straight away.

So it's one of those things a bit like littering. Easily fixed in theory but it's definitely possible to stuff it up.

Yep, I think it all comes back to education and incentives.

If you just ask people to charge after 10pm, I think a decent percentage will just do that for free, because they don’t really care what time they charge as long as it’s full by morning.

There is already some incentives, some people are on time of day billing, others prefer to charge off their own solar etc. but yeah if it becomes a problem I think retailers will begin to offer incentives.

Also people installing home batteries etc are already beginning to take load off the grid.

 

[Mr Flibble]

Maybe there is someone on here who can answer a query I've had in the back of my mind for some time...

As I understand it, the stability of the grid system relies on the biggest producer setting the frequency, and minor producers matching it. Is this correct? and if so, what happens to the system when there are more and more producers but putting less in each?

The grid frequency varies slightly as demand rises and falls as it is, so I'd imagine it's going to be a nightmare keeping it stable as the grid becomes more and more complex.

Any electrical engineers here? Is this a solvable problem? Is it even a problem?