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sptrawler said:
They are still rolling out the same nonsense they did 30 years ago when they said everyone would need a degree, now we are importing more tradespeople than you can poke a stick at, so what is the answer? More unis and tell kids they all need to go to uni, meanwhile head off to India to drum up business. Sad for our kids IMO.
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The problem is this bit:

We’re told than nine out of 10 jobs in the coming decade are going to require you to finish school and then go to TAFE or go to uni.
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Some jobs require a degree or TAFE certificate certainly, we don't want unqualified doctors, engineers or tradies causing disasters and killing people, but there's plenty of jobs that have no sensible need for tertiary education.

Having a degree has come to be seen not as a requirement to undertake specific work but rather as a general intelligence or aptitude test which it most certainly is not. That's the trouble, we've got employers demanding degrees for work that in all honesty doesn't really even need year 12. In the process, a lot of legitimately good people are locked out if they don't have the required piece of paper framed and hanging on the wall. :2twocents
 
It isn't an Australian article, but it may well be a trend.

Pandemic-led change has propelled companies through decades of evolution in two short years. But, the waves of change are just beginning. Gen Z is entering the workforce in droves and will revolutionize the ways we learn, work, and interact. I’ve worked with tech leaders to better understand how Gen Z is impacting the employee mindset and how they must evolve to remain competitive.
Gen Z is the first generation to be born after the iPhone, and their whole lives they’ve had access to technology and more information than any generation before them. This has changed their outlook on the value and price of education.
In contrast, they’ve watched Millennials before them take on crushing student loan debt, burdening them well into adulthood and limiting their ability to buy a first home and have children. Gen Z watched their parents and older Millennial acquaintances follow this path, but rather than it leading to prosperity, as promised, for many it meant delays in being able to afford a home, build a family, or save for retirement.
As a result, many Gen Zs are bucking the idea of a traditional education path. As of January 2022, only 51% of Gen Z teens are interested in pursuing a four-year degree, down from 71 percent in May 2020, according to a recent study by ECMC Group. And over two years, there was a 6.6% decline in total undergraduate enrollment between fall 2019 and fall 2021.

It’s not that they’re ideologically against four-year degrees. Rather, much of Gen Z understands our flawed system with staggeringly high prices for higher education and is looking for ways to earn an income and advance their careers without burdensome debt.
Gen Z seems to have more in common with their grandparents who were more focused on technical skills that allowed them stable careers in trades, and less in common with their parents’ generation, who had low-cost access to four-year degrees and general education programs. A recent study showed that 56% of Gen Z teens believe a skills-based education (e.g., trade skills, nursing, STEM, etc.) makes sense in today’s world.
And, once they’re in the job, Gen Zs want to keep learning to advance their careers and make more money. One of the main drivers of this constant learning mindset is a recognition that their job and technology is constantly changing. In fact, nearly 60% of Gen Zs say they don’t think their job will exist in the same form in 20 years. This understanding of the rapid change of technology, and their need to stay up-to-date with their skills, is inherent in the Gen Z mindset. They must continue to learn or their skills will become obsolete.
 
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sptrawler said:
It isn't an Australian article, but it may well be a trend.

Pandemic-led change has propelled companies through decades of evolution in two short years. But, the waves of change are just beginning. Gen Z is entering the workforce in droves and will revolutionize the ways we learn, work, and interact. I’ve worked with tech leaders to better understand how Gen Z is impacting the employee mindset and how they must evolve to remain competitive.
Gen Z is the first generation to be born after the iPhone, and their whole lives they’ve had access to technology and more information than any generation before them. This has changed their outlook on the value and price of education.
In contrast, they’ve watched Millennials before them take on crushing student loan debt, burdening them well into adulthood and limiting their ability to buy a first home and have children. Gen Z watched their parents and older Millennial acquaintances follow this path, but rather than it leading to prosperity, as promised, for many it meant delays in being able to afford a home, build a family, or save for retirement.
As a result, many Gen Zs are bucking the idea of a traditional education path. As of January 2022, only 51% of Gen Z teens are interested in pursuing a four-year degree, down from 71 percent in May 2020, according to a recent study by ECMC Group. And over two years, there was a 6.6% decline in total undergraduate enrollment between fall 2019 and fall 2021.

It’s not that they’re ideologically against four-year degrees. Rather, much of Gen Z understands our flawed system with staggeringly high prices for higher education and is looking for ways to earn an income and advance their careers without burdensome debt.
Gen Z seems to have more in common with their grandparents who were more focused on technical skills that allowed them stable careers in trades, and less in common with their parents’ generation, who had low-cost access to four-year degrees and general education programs. A recent study showed that 56% of Gen Z teens believe a skills-based education (e.g., trade skills, nursing, STEM, etc.) makes sense in today’s world.
And, once they’re in the job, Gen Zs want to keep learning to advance their careers and make more money. One of the main drivers of this constant learning mindset is a recognition that their job and technology is constantly changing. In fact, nearly 60% of Gen Zs say they don’t think their job will exist in the same form in 20 years. This understanding of the rapid change of technology, and their need to stay up-to-date with their skills, is inherent in the Gen Z mindset. They must continue to learn or their skills will become obsolete.
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GenZ aren't stupid. My son is going that route. Why get a big student debt?
 
It looks like Naplan is changing, yet again, the general trend doesn't seem to be changing, everyone's doing great. ?

www.theage.com.au

NAPLAN starts this week. Here’s what the changes mean for students and parents

Students will sit NAPLAN tests this week, with the 10-band assessment of their literacy and numeracy skills to be replaced by a simpler four-band measure.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
More than 1.3 million Australian students will have their reading, writing and maths skills assessed when they sit NAPLAN tests this week, with the results to be delivered to parents and schools months earlier than in previous years.

Test report cards will also be radically overhauled, with the 10 NAPLAN bands and national minimum standard dumped in favour of four proficiency categories: exceeding; strong; developing; and needs additional support.

But about 30 per cent of students could fall short of the national benchmark for literacy and numeracy under the new measures, as results in the lowest two bands will signal a student has not met proficiency.
This year, tests will be held in March rather than May, so schools and parents can see results earlier, which will allow teachers more time to act on gaps in students’ knowledge.

All tests will be held online except for year 3 writing, and schools will receive results in term 2. Parents could receive student report cards in July.
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A spokesman for the Australian Curriculum, Assessment and Reporting Authority (ACARA) said preliminary work that was undertaken to set the four new progress levels found about 30 per cent of students would not have met the proficiency benchmark in 2022.
This includes about 10 per cent of students in the lowest-performing category called “needs additional support”. Last year, about 7.3 per cent of students were, on average, below the national minimum standard.
“Until the 2023 data is available, we cannot determine the exact proportion of students in the four new bands,” the authority’s spokesman said.
“The proficiency standard sets a higher level of achievement than the national minimum standard.

“A child whose results fall within the ‘developing’ or ‘needs additional support’ categories will not have met proficiency.”
NAPLAN – the National Assessment Program: Literacy and Numeracy – was introduced in 2008 to test the literacy and numeracy skills of Australian students in years 3, 5, 7 and 9.
Centre for Independent Studies director of education Glenn Fahey said several international tests use proficiency levels to define achievement.

“Thinking in terms of proficiency ultimately sets our sights on how schooling can lift the literacy and numeracy skills of all students in the system,” he said.

But Fahey said the new band descriptions were unclear, and the better way to record four levels of proficiency would be: above proficient, proficient, below proficient, well below proficient.
“This would be a lot more commonsense than the vague and potentially misleading labels of ‘strong’ and ‘developing’, which basically denote being at an acceptable level and below an acceptable level, respectively,” he said.

Fahey also warned reporting changes would make comparisons with the past 15 years of results almost impossible.

“The ability to track progress has been an invaluable feature of NAPLAN,” he said. “Without the ability to track results, we are left with anecdotes and pseudo-indicators of achievement. This is an unacceptable way to judge the performance of an education system.”

Grattan Institute education program director Jordana Hunter said there was a risk parents and schools could get a false sense of achievement about how well some students were progressing under the new categories.
Students in the third band will have fallen below proficiency benchmarks, but the fact they will be classed as “developing” could confuse some parents and create the false impression their child was developing well when the ranking indicates they might need intervention, Hunter said.
At Brandon Park Primary School, in Wheelers Hill, preparation for NAPLAN last week was limited to one session where students familiarised themselves with the technology for the online test.

The school was last month identified by ACARA as one of the state’s highest performing in NAPLAN over the past four years.
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Results at the government school were above or well above results at schools with similar students in all 10 testing domains last year, but principal Kate Buck said the school does no special preparations for NAPLAN before students sit the test.
“The kids know they have to do it, but we don’t put a massive amount of pressure on the kids at all for NAPLAN,” Buck said.
“We believe what we are doing is working, and it’s going to show in the NAPLAN anyway.”

It wasn’t always that way. In 2018, the school investigated why its literacy results had plateaued, particularly with spelling, a domain in which just 16 per cent of students showed strong growth.
The school replaced its balanced approach to literacy with an explicit phonics-based methodology that revolves around teaching children the code to letter-sound relationships, Buck said.
By 2021, 42 per cent of students had achieved high growth. Buck said NAPLAN was an important tool for tracking student progress, and that the school’s strong recent results validated its teaching methods.
Brandon Park is a zoned school now and turns down many applications from parents seeking to enrol from outside its catchment.
“We try to really bring our community into the teaching practices that we’ve got and that’s the main reason people want to come to our school, because of the structured way we teach,” Buck said.
 
I wonder when they are actually face up to the fact, things are getting worse, not better?
When they are actually going to say, we are doing something wrong, the trend is going the wrong way, it isn't as though they haven't got any statistical evidence.
Why is violence increasing not only in children, but also in parents?

www.smh.com.au

‘Vicious parents’, students target NSW principals in record numbers

Physical violence towards school leaders more than doubled from 20 to 43.9 per cent between 2011 and last year, a new survey has found.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
The rise in threats and violence in NSW mirrors a national trend of worsening behaviour towards school leadership staff, the annual Australian Principal Occupational Health, Safety and Wellbeing Survey released on Monday found.
“The steadily increasing levels of offensive behaviour across the country in schools of all types should give us pause and shame,” the Australian Catholic University (ACU) study said.

It found NSW principals receiving threats of violence jumped from 28.5 per cent when the survey began in 2011 to 46.2 per cent last year. Meanwhile, school leaders experiencing actual physical violence has more than doubled from 20 per cent to 43.9 per cent over the same period.
Just under half of those principals said they had experienced physical violence or been threatened by students in 2022, while one-third said when it came to violent threats, it was parents who were the perpetrators.
 
Mark Scott is a relative hard head and it's good to see he's trying to weed out the socialist Left who are more concerned with "social justice" that knowledge of the subject.

Speaking of knowledge of the subject, I wonder if there is any imperative in teaching degrees to know about the subject they are trying to teach , rather that just being generic teachers ? eg if someone is going to teach maths is a teaching degree good enough or would a maths degree be needed as well ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Mark Scott is a relative hard head and it's good to see he's trying to weed out the socialist Left who are more concerned with "social justice" that knowledge of the subject.

Speaking of knowledge of the subject, I wonder if there is any imperative in teaching degrees to know about the subject they are trying to teach , rather that just being generic teachers ? eg if someone is going to teach maths is a teaching degree good enough or would a maths degree be needed as well ?
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Yes it is the most important aspect of teaching, that they know the subject, like the subject and are enthusiastic about teaching it, if they aren't there is no way the kids will like the subject.
I asked the oldest grandson who lives with us, how he is enjoying maths at high school (he only started in February) he said it is his favourite subject his teacher is 73 years old and is terrific.
He can't get his head around the fact there are 2,500 kids at his school, the reason is it is one of the best public schools in the country. :xyxthumbs

Hallelujah, my job done, at last he is with a teacher that can help him develop to his potential.
Now for his younger brother, who is in grade 3 and on his 3 times tables. :wheniwasaboy:
 
sptrawler said:
Yes it is the most important aspect of teaching, that they know the subject, like the subject and are enthusiastic about teaching it, if they aren't there is no way the kids will like the subject.
I asked the oldest grandson who lives with us, how he is enjoying maths at high school (he only started in February) he said it is his favourite subject his teacher is 73 years old and is terrific.
He can't get his head around the fact there are 2,500 kids at his school, the reason is it is one of the best public schools in the country. :xyxthumbs

Hallelujah, my job done, at last he is with a teacher that can help him develop to his potential.
Now for his younger brother, who is in grade 3 and on his 3 times tables. :wheniwasaboy:
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Back in the olden days when we lived well out of town, when driving the kids to school we used to do maths or spelling bees on the way to and from school. Their reward if they were mostly correct was a choice of takeaway for dinner on Fridays. Otherwise I made them eat my cooking.
Mick
 
sptrawler said:
Slowly the Penny drops, eventually they will get education back to what it was, rather than a social experiment.

www.smh.com.au

Less philosophy, more skills: Major shake-up of teaching degrees recommended

The expert panel also proposed tighter standards so that teaching graduates can manage classrooms and poor behaviour.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
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Philosophy you say?
Mick
1680767791540.png
 
Australian Universities are once again pushing the "get more students into University" barrow.
From Evil Murdoch Press
Universities are demanding an end to the Coalition’s Job-ready Graduates university funding scheme that forces some students to pay fees nearly four times as high as others, and reduced overall funding for key courses such as science and engineering.
Universities Australia, in its submission to Labor’s Universities Accord review, says a new university funding model needs to be fairer to students and reduce the barriers that prevent students getting to university.

Under the Job-ready Graduates scheme, which the Morrison government introduced in 2021, students pay fees as high as $15,142 a year for law, business and humanities, compared with teaching, nursing, maths and languages students who pay $4124 a year.

The submission says the scheme failed in its objective to entice university students to study in areas of skill needs.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the universities need to have a look at their humanities department and do a bit of spot checking on Logic.
If we accept the premise that
“Price signals as a driver of student choice simply do not work, which is why we’re calling for the Job-ready Graduates package to be replaced,” said Universities Australia chief executive Catriona Jackson.
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One can only assume that the Unis fully expect the scheme the Unis put up will entice students to study in areas of skill need.
The wealthy families will pay the fees regardless of the cost.
The rest will have a HECS debt, so how will lowering the costs of some courses change things seeing as they have already said the potential students do not respond in a positive way to price signals?
I would suggest that the real answer lies in getting more students into courses that cost the Uni's the least.
STEM degrees tend to require larger infrastructure in Labs, testing equipment, expensive consumables and computers.
Running a Law, business or humanities class sometimes means the students don't even have to attend, so much can be done online.
let the overseas students pay for the expensive STEM courses, leave the cheap but useless degrees for OZ students and the coffers of the Unis.

Mick
 
Maybe, just maybe, there might be a reset. But there has been a lot of false starts in the past. :whistling:

www.smh.com.au

‘Rushed’ curriculum reforms axed, teachers told to focus on English, maths

The NSW government has delayed planned changes for multiple subjects to allow teachers to focus on “core learning”.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

The NSW government will delay the rollout of almost 30 syllabuses in an effort to give school teachers more time to concentrate on sweeping changes to the English and maths curriculum.
An overhaul to the English and maths syllabuses for years 3 to 10 will be implemented across all schools from next year, but planned changes to multiple subjects – including commerce, music, Aboriginal studies and technologies – will be shelved to allow teachers to focus on “core learning”.
 
At last there is light at the end of the tunnel, or at least a recognition that the system is failing badly.
Naplan results keep falling, teachers keep leaving because they work out, it really wasn't their bag despite the holidays.
This article is the feel good nice one, the real issue is buried deep in the feel good narrative, teachers are going to have to learn to teach reading, writing and arithmetic again. ? ?
Funny how in the last 30 years since they made teaching a University based course, our educational standards have fallen dramatically.
I wonder if that's what happens, when you make a specialised job a degree from a factory, that appears to driven by throughput IMO.

Yet another example of a social engineering initiative that has imploded and let down a couple of generations of children, again only my opinion, from observing my children, my grandchildren and those who work in the retail business. When there is a power failure and they have to use their mathematical skills, rather than the till to work out the change required. :mad:
The second article explains why the old teachers training colleges worked, so now we reinvent the wheel. :whistling:

www.smh.com.au

Universities who fail would-be teachers to be stripped of accreditation

A major review has found our next generation of teachers must leave university with proven skills in managing classrooms as part of their education.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
Australian universities could be stripped of their accreditation if they fail to equip the next generation of teachers with proven skills of how to manage a classroom, a major review has found.

The nation’s education ministers on Thursday backed a major overhaul of Initial Teacher Education that review author Mark Scott said would use a “carrot-and-stick” approach in a bid to force universities to use evidence-based practices when it comes to educating.
Scott said universities across the nation would be policed by a new Initial Teacher Education Quality Assurance Board that would reward those who used evidence-based teaching approaches and punish those who did not.
“The stick is a real one, with real teeth: standards which are consistent across the country and reports to go to education ministers annually,” he said. “And if a program fails to pass muster, they can lose accreditation and the right to offer initial teacher education programs.”

The 2022 Quality Initial Teacher Education Review found that many beginning teachers were under prepared to teach in several key areas, including reading, cultural responsiveness, classroom management and family/carer engagement.
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Under the review, universities will be forced to streamline course content, with evidence-based practices including classroom management and responsive teaching identified as essential for all beginning teachers.
They will also have to publicly report a series of indicators to provide visibility for prospective students around selection; retention; preparedness of beginning teachers and student satisfaction; and employment outcomes.
Universities will receive funding to implement the core subjects into their courses.
Mid-career professionals could also be fast-tracked into classrooms and practical placements could also be overhauled in a more formal attempt to stem the exodus of students from teaching degrees.

Scott said while universities would still have time to focus on issues like the philosophy of education, he said universities would now be expected to embed effective pedagogical practices.

“What we are saying is that we need to follow the evidence for what works best for educating our children and we should be unapologetic about that,” Scott said.

www.abc.net.au

Universities will have to improve their teaching degrees or face consequences. The reactions have been mixed

Universities will be given two years to overhaul their education degrees or risk losing their accreditation as part of a national bid to fix Australia's teacher shortage.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
From the article:
Mr Fox said the science of learning was starkly different to most university courses which often taught student-directed learning and exploring education through societal power structures.

In contrast, he said the science of learning was based on research that looked at the way young brains absorbed knowledge and structured lessons that reflected this.

"Sociology might be important but it shouldn't be the most important concept in a teaching degree," Mr Fox said.

"Unfortunately, too often university graduates are graduating able to write essays about all sort of things but not able to respond to the needs of students.
 
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What a laugh, now they want the Government to run courses on teaching kids basic maths and english, finally the reality has come home to roost.
Meanwhile our neighbour is up in arms, her son is going to put his grade 1 daughter into a private school, because she came home from school telling everyone her teacher told her she can marry a woman, yep we've really nailed it with our education system.
The clever country, where our kids can't add up, do multiplication, write a coherent sentence, but do have a great gender awareness.?

Middle Australia is getting restless IMO. :whistling:

20230712_063353.jpg
 
In the Fin Review .... following on from a NYT story:

Australian schools should learn from Mississippi’s education revolution​

One of the poorest states in the US is achieving remarkable results in both reading and maths for economically disadvantaged students by using evidence-based teaching and learning....

www.afr.com

Australian schools should learn from Mississippi’s education revolution

One of the poorest states in the US is achieving remarkable results in both reading and maths for economically disadvantaged students by using evidence-based teaching and learning.
www.afr.com www.afr.com

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Mississippi Is Offering Lessons for America on Education

The state shows that poverty is no excuse for failing to teach kids to read.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 

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