Education

[basilio]

I copied this across from the Chat Gpt file.
The capacity of Chat Gpt Gemini to understand and explain Maths and Science issues is eye catching

This is where the latest iteration of Chat GPT , Gemini ,can take you.

Don't quite know how long it will be before Skynet is operational. Perhaps we can enjoy Christmas this year ?

 

[mullokintyre]

Don't quite know how long it will be before Skynet is operational. Perhaps we can enjoy Christmas this year ?

To which Skynet were you referring?
This one or maybe This one from Terminator ?
Mick

 

[basilio]

To which Skynet were you referring?
This one or maybe This one from Terminator ?
Mick

What do you reckon Mick

As far as I can tell there are at least 4 separate multinationals developing AI at competing breakneck speeds.
After that there will be countries like Russia and China and anyone else constructing and adapting this technology to their own ends.
I wonder what happens when AI from Google meets AI from Chat GPT and then has a "conversation" with AI China and AI Russia .
What will be the prompts and directions motivating each intelligence ?

Honestly I don't want to even think about the possibilities. But after the sweeties run out I can only see many tears before bedtime.

 

[sptrawler]

The sausage machine isn't happy, the manufacturers of the machine are talking about throttling back supply.

The minister for immigration looks like he is going to be sick at the announcement, can't wait for this to escalate.

Can't wait to see the push back on this, or the subsidies to compensate their loss and keep their support.

Clare O’Neil won’t rule out international student cap as part of visa crackdown

Home affairs minister insists forecasts showing 185,000 fewer people will migrate to Australia are an estimate, not a ‘target’

www.theguardian.com

 

[mullokintyre]

Was at a Christmas function on on the weekend and was talking to a lecturer at Federation University.
As has been suggested, some of these instituions are merely sausage factories.
He was dragged over the coals this year ecause he failed more than 50% of his class.
They were all overseas fee paying students, as was the majority of the class.
Administration have demanded that he let those who failed re sit the exam as an open book exam.
He suggested that even then some of them will fail.
He says he is "considering his options".
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

Was at a Christmas function on on the weekend and was talking to a lecturer at Federation University.
As has been suggested, some of these instituions are merely sausage factories.
He was dragged over the coals this year ecause he failed more than 50% of his class.
They were all overseas fee paying students, as was the majority of the class.
Administration have demanded that he let those who failed re sit the exam as an open book exam.
He suggested that even then some of them will fail.
He says he is "considering his options".
Mick

It must be soul destroying for lecturers that actually give a $hit, it will only get worse IMO.
With the recognition of overseas qualifications, it wont be long before many just go to the cheapest supplier, which probably will result in a further drop in standards.

 

[basilio]

Speaking of Federation University... Perhaps the ones who fail your friends course could enrol here.

Federation TAFE in Ballarat offers first accredited medicinal cannabis cultivation course​

ABC Ballarat
/ By Laura Mayers and Prue Bentley
Posted Thu 18 Jan 2024 at 10:46amThursday 18 Jan 2024 at 10:46am

Medicinal cannabis has been effective in treating a range of ailments.(ABC Canberra: Donal Sheil)

Link copied


Ballarat's Federation TAFE will be the first campus in Australia to deliver nationally accredited training in medicinal cannabis cultivation and production.

Key points:​

• Certificates III in Cannabis Cultivation and Production will be offered, followed by Certificates IV in 2025
• The course is the first of its kind in Australia for the agricultural development of medicinal cannabis
• By 2028 the Victorian medicinal cannabis industry is expected to service between 30-50 per cent of nationwide demand

First medicinal cannabis-growing course offers sustainable careers in thriving industry

Federation TAFE introduces an accredited training course as modelling estimates that by 2028, nearly 250,000 Victorian patients are expected to demand medicinal cannabis.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

Reality is starting to overtake ideology, the kids are starting to realise the ideology of going to Uni, so that you will have more and better employment opportunities isn't for everyone.
Plenty of graduates aren't getting high paying jobs, while we are importing skilled tradespeople to fill jobs, that our kids are missing out on.
The clever country education system, just another 20 year old brain fart, that now requires unwinding.

Why the next generation of West Australians are among the least educated in the country

The number of WA teenagers enrolling in university is decreasing and year 12 completion rates have dropped to a 10-year low.

www.watoday.com.au

Education expert Brad Gobby said the declining trend could suggest a growth in employment and training opportunities in the WA economy that young people were taking up.

Dr Gobby, an Associate Professor at Edith Cowan University, also said for many, focusing on finding employment or going into a trade or apprenticeship and leaving school early would be of more benefit than staying in school.

According to the report, only half of school leavers aged between 15 and 24 were fully engaged in either education or work, a significant drop from nearly 78 per cent in 2022.
Gobby said the fact many students were reportedly not in any form of work or education post school was also a significant cause for concern.
In 2013, four out of five full-time public school students were staying until they graduated (82 per cent), with the figure remaining steady through to 2021.

However, in 2022 the retention rate dipped by 5 per cent down to 76.7 per cent.

 

[sptrawler]

The never ending revolving door of failure, our education revolution has produced continues and no one cares enough to be honest about the problem IMO.
Teach them about sexuality and culture, but let's forget about maths, reading and science, as if they will need those abilities.

Popular teaching style 'contrary to science' costing Australia $40 billion, report finds

One-third of Australian students are failing to learn to read proficiently, at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion, according to a new study.

www.abc.net.au

• In short: A Grattan Institute report says one third of Australia's 4 million school children are being failed by an education system that persists with discredited theories to teach reading.
• Students lacking reading skills are more likely to fall behind, disrupt class and end up unemployed or jailed, coming at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion over their lifetimes, the report concluded.
• What's next? Governments and school systems are being urged to commit to what's known as "structured literacy", a mix of direct instruction and phonics.

The Grattan Institute's Reading Guarantee report calls this a "preventable tragedy" caused by persisting with teaching styles popular at universities, but "contrary to science" and discredited by inquiries in all major English-speaking countries.

 

[SirRumpole]

The never ending revolving door of failure, our education revolution has produced continues and no one cares enough to be honest about the problem IMO.
Teach them about sexuality and culture, but let's forget about maths, reading and science, as if they will need those abilities.

Popular teaching style 'contrary to science' costing Australia $40 billion, report finds

One-third of Australian students are failing to learn to read proficiently, at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion, according to a new study.

www.abc.net.au

• In short: A Grattan Institute report says one third of Australia's 4 million school children are being failed by an education system that persists with discredited theories to teach reading.
• Students lacking reading skills are more likely to fall behind, disrupt class and end up unemployed or jailed, coming at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion over their lifetimes, the report concluded.
• What's next? Governments and school systems are being urged to commit to what's known as "structured literacy", a mix of direct instruction and phonics.

The Grattan Institute's Reading Guarantee report calls this a "preventable tragedy" caused by persisting with teaching styles popular at universities, but "contrary to science" and discredited by inquiries in all major English-speaking countries.

Maybe a lack of rigour to accommodate multi-cultural students ?

Dumbing down to the lowest level perhaps.

 

[mullokintyre]

The never ending revolving door of failure, our education revolution has produced continues and no one cares enough to be honest about the problem IMO.
Teach them about sexuality and culture, but let's forget about maths, reading and science, as if they will need those abilities.

Popular teaching style 'contrary to science' costing Australia $40 billion, report finds

One-third of Australian students are failing to learn to read proficiently, at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion, according to a new study.

www.abc.net.au

• In short: A Grattan Institute report says one third of Australia's 4 million school children are being failed by an education system that persists with discredited theories to teach reading.
• Students lacking reading skills are more likely to fall behind, disrupt class and end up unemployed or jailed, coming at an estimated cost to the economy of $40 billion over their lifetimes, the report concluded.
• What's next? Governments and school systems are being urged to commit to what's known as "structured literacy", a mix of direct instruction and phonics.

The Grattan Institute's Reading Guarantee report calls this a "preventable tragedy" caused by persisting with teaching styles popular at universities, but "contrary to science" and discredited by inquiries in all major English-speaking countries.

The sad thing is, you do not need a degree in education to assist with reading.
My grandparents taught us to read, to be able to count, know the different coours et before we went to school. (no kindergarten in them there old days).
Nowadays, with kids going into early childhood development approved childcare as well as 3 year old then 4 year old kinder, you have to wonder in what it is exactly they are educating the little tackers.
In Victoria at least, there is a signifcant educational level to be in early childcare from Victorian Government

if after all this, a child who has reading diffiicullties should have been identified by the time they get to school.
We continually por mony into education, but you have to ask, what are we getting for it?
mick

 

[sptrawler]

Wow, who would have thought, a breakthrough, the class starts with reading, spelling and probably the next thing they will chuck in is the times table.
History repeating as usual, didn't we do that in primary school 60 years ago, the teacher called a kids name and asked how to spell a word, or what the answer to a multiplication question was? I'm sure we did.
All of a sudden it's a revolution OMG.

‘We need a reading revolution’: Schools urged to chase more ambitious targets

At Marsden Road Public, its success in literacy begins with the first lesson of the day.

www.smh.com.au

It’s the first lesson of the school day. Year 1 students sit on the classroom floor to spend half an hour reading and writing using phonics before tackling a string of vocabulary tasks.
“We are checking their knowledge constantly, so we pick up problems in real time,” says Troy Verey, the deputy principal at Marsden Road Public in south-west Sydney. “The kids use mini whiteboards to record answers and show they grasp concepts, which keeps them engaged and on-task.”

 

[Smurf1976]

The Grattan Institute's Reading Guarantee report calls this a "preventable tragedy" caused by persisting with teaching styles popular at universities, but "contrary to science" and discredited by inquiries in all major English-speaking countries.

Emphasis mine.

The real question here surely is why are universities teaching something that's widely discredited?

That raises a lot of questions not about the teaching of primary students but of the education offered by universities themselves.

 

[sptrawler]

Emphasis mine.

The real question here surely is why are universities teaching something that's widely discredited?

That raises a lot of questions not about the teaching of primary students but of the education offered by universities themselves.

That's the question you aren't allowed to ask, is the sausage machine working on quantity and a fixed price, as opposed to the old days where it was about quality and price wasn't an issue.
Teacher's training colleges were Govt funded and the teachers had to work at remote postings for a period of time, on completion of their training.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting narrative by your ABC, there is a public school exodus, they say it is from lack of funding.
From people I talk to, it is because the parents want their kids to learn and have a chance to make a career.
There are only so many jobs available in the arts and social sciences.

There is a reason that suburbs with high performing public schools, have a corresponding high real estate value, maybe the ABC could fact check that?
I mean let's be serious, if they thought their children would be taught how to read and write and be reasonably proficient at maths, they wouldn't pay a stupid amount of money for a private education.
The problem is they don't teach the kids to read and write and to learn their multiplication tables in public schools, they learn social sciences and cultural heritage and why they don't have to learn, as long as they are having fun and are aware of their sexuality life's good.
When the F#ck are they going to wake up.
I live in a public school area, but the public high school gets in the top 10 nearly every year, the Asian families, the Indian families pay a huge premium just to get into the suburb.
It is time everyone stopped talking rubbish and started asking for outcomes, not just more money inputs, I shouldn't have to be teaching my grandkids the times tables, they weren't my favourite pass time when I was a kid, but my teachers still perservered and got on with it.
My rant on my favorite subject.

Soaring private school enrolments hint at growing 'segregation' in education, expert says

Private school enrolments have soared for the third straight year as parents leave the public system in record numbers in favour of independent or Catholic schools.

www.abc.net.au

'Inequality in funding' driving public school exodus as private schools continue to lift enrolments​

Private school enrolments have soared for the third straight year as parents leave the public system in record numbers in favour of independent or Catholic schools.

The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has released new data for 2023 that shows the trend to private schools is growing even as interest rate rises and cost of living pressure eat into budgets.

 

[SirRumpole]

Interesting narrative by your ABC, there is a public school exodus, they say it is from lack of funding.
From people I talk to, it is because the parents want their kids to learn and have a chance to make a career.
There are only so many jobs available in the arts and social sciences.

There is a reason that suburbs with high performing public schools, have a corresponding high real estate value, maybe the ABC could fact check that?
I mean let's be serious, if they thought their children would be taught how to read and write and be reasonably proficient at maths, they wouldn't pay a stupid amount of money for a private education.
The problem is they don't teach the kids to read and write and to learn their multiplication tables in public schools, they learn social sciences and cultural heritage and why they don't have to learn, as long as they are having fun and are aware of their sexuality life's good.
When the F#ck are they going to wake up.
I live in a public school area, but the public high school gets in the top 10 nearly every year, the Asian families, the Indian families pay a huge premium just to get into the suburb.
It is time everyone stopped talking rubbish and started asking for outcomes, not just more money inputs, I shouldn't have to be teaching my grandkids the times tables, they weren't my favourite pass time when I was a kid, but my teachers still perservered and got on with it.
My rant on my favorite subject.

Soaring private school enrolments hint at growing 'segregation' in education, expert says

Private school enrolments have soared for the third straight year as parents leave the public system in record numbers in favour of independent or Catholic schools.

www.abc.net.au

'Inequality in funding' driving public school exodus as private schools continue to lift enrolments​

Private school enrolments have soared for the third straight year as parents leave the public system in record numbers in favour of independent or Catholic schools.

The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has released new data for 2023 that shows the trend to private schools is growing even as interest rate rises and cost of living pressure eat into budgets.

Let's face it, the pollies all send their kids to private schools so they don't care about public schools and think they are for the yobbos.

If the Feds really were interested in education they would set up their own schools and take money out of private schools, giving everyone a chance to get a good STEM based education.

 

[sptrawler]

Well this is a new one, sue the school for lack of discipline, resulting in you not performing at your best.

Aimee says bullying hurt her HSC results. Now she’s suing her school

Aimee Clifton says bullying at school led to severe stress, which caused her to under-perform in the HSC. She wants the school to pay almost $600,000 in compensation.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Well this is a new one, sue the school for lack of discipline, resulting in you not performing at your best.

Aimee says bullying hurt her HSC results. Now she’s suing her school

Aimee Clifton says bullying at school led to severe stress, which caused her to under-perform in the HSC. She wants the school to pay almost $600,000 in compensation.

www.smh.com.au

Well, its probably the only way to get schools to do something about things like that.

 

[sptrawler]

Cheating is obviously becoming a huge problem, I wonder how long it will be before employers have to test prospective employees to ascertain if they actually have the knowledge their degree is saying they have.

Now we are recognising overseas qualifications, will the problem be compounded? I can see this costing companies a lot of money, longer term and further devaluing degrees.

Hundreds of uni students caught in ‘new wave’ cheating

The real number of students using artificial intelligence is likely far higher, experts say, with detection tools only able to catch unsophisticated cheats.

www.smh.com.au

Universities are catching hundreds of students in a new wave of alleged cheating using ChatGPT or other artificial intelligence, as the tertiary sector deploys a new anti-plagiarism tool and eagle-eyed markers in an attempt to tackle the misconduct.

Sydney University has disclosed that 330 instances of apparent plagiarism using artificial intelligence occurred in 2023, as the mainstream impact of the technology becomes evident.

Most other universities, however, are tight-lipped about the extent of artificial-intelligence cheating in their institutions, amid widespread fears that it’s undetectable.
Deakin University cheating detection expert Professor Phillip Dawson said it was likely only a small portion of AI cheats were caught, given the limitations of available detection methods.

“I think unless students are being supervised [during an assessment] … the assumption should be students are going to use AI,” he said.
“Most research showing good detection rates is based on the assumption that someone just copy-and-pastes, and they don’t ask ChatGPT to reword or paraphrase.
“The detection accuracy scores are based on the assumption that the AI user is an idiot.”
University of NSW declined to release any data on AI cheating, but its latest academic misconduct report revealed early indications of a “new wave” of suspected cheating relating to ChatGPT and other online tools, with a significant increase in referrals in 2023.

 

[SirRumpole]

Cheating is obviously becoming a huge problem, I wonder how long it will be before employers have to test prospective employees to ascertain if they actually have the knowledge their degree is saying they have.

Now we are recognising overseas qualifications, will the problem be compounded? I can see this costing companies a lot of money, longer term and further devaluing degrees.

Hundreds of uni students caught in ‘new wave’ cheating

The real number of students using artificial intelligence is likely far higher, experts say, with detection tools only able to catch unsophisticated cheats.

www.smh.com.au

Universities are catching hundreds of students in a new wave of alleged cheating using ChatGPT or other artificial intelligence, as the tertiary sector deploys a new anti-plagiarism tool and eagle-eyed markers in an attempt to tackle the misconduct.

Sydney University has disclosed that 330 instances of apparent plagiarism using artificial intelligence occurred in 2023, as the mainstream impact of the technology becomes evident.

Most other universities, however, are tight-lipped about the extent of artificial-intelligence cheating in their institutions, amid widespread fears that it’s undetectable.
Deakin University cheating detection expert Professor Phillip Dawson said it was likely only a small portion of AI cheats were caught, given the limitations of available detection methods.

“I think unless students are being supervised [during an assessment] … the assumption should be students are going to use AI,” he said.
“Most research showing good detection rates is based on the assumption that someone just copy-and-pastes, and they don’t ask ChatGPT to reword or paraphrase.
“The detection accuracy scores are based on the assumption that the AI user is an idiot.”
University of NSW declined to release any data on AI cheating, but its latest academic misconduct report revealed early indications of a “new wave” of suspected cheating relating to ChatGPT and other online tools, with a significant increase in referrals in 2023.

I just wonder if using AI in some circumstances is just another way of doing "research", like looking up a textbook.

If AI can solve a problem, why not use it? The borderline between research and cheating looks fairly slim to me.