EDE - Eden Innovations

[kahuna1]

Pathetic ....

seriously.
17 announcements ? ... not one but two needed to be retracted and the last, about a 12k order ?

Magically the share price stayed at the same level. MAGICALLY .... I do wonder when this occurs. I note the annual report and accounts came out after close Friday and AFTER the capital raising had supposedly closed. They were, as already expected a black hole of loss.

When a company which has a product which MAY have merits, one never knows, but after several years of selling its wares, still has sales at less than 20% of sales .... what appear likely a minimum break even and then TOUTS a sale of 12k of product when 1000 times that are needed, I do wonder.

Is ASIC asleep ? This magical price stayed there despite what were things that would seriously damage any companies share price when not one, but two releases had to be corrected and the second one was so absurd so as to be a joke.

Anyhow, Monday should see how much they have raised on the placement.
I personally am not amused !!

ASX is a joke ...Market supervision ? ... . let me see ... being factual the MEDIA blitz of pure hot air started some time ago and one or two or maybe three releases is normal NOT 16 or 17.

I sadly counted ....

cant wait the results. It did already try raising 9.8 million early 2019 .... got 7 ... thats NOW gone.

What the hell ?

 

[Smurf1976]

When a company which has a product which MAY have merits, one never knows

In regard to the product something I'll note is that most roads are maintained by some level of government (or by private enterprise contracting to government) and most highway departments, local government authorities and the like are more than happy to trial new ideas.

Even relatively small local councils do that sort of research trial and of course bigger states do it far more. Someone's selling something or there's a new idea around so they use it on a section of road or on a bridge and then monitor it against a control section done conventionally. Same pretty much everywhere noting that the reason comes back to local weather conditions having a major influence on the suitability of road materials such that proving something to be suitable in Sydney doesn't prove that it won't fail in Darwin.

Point being that if no such organisations are giving this product a proper trial, or if they have trialed it and aren't buying, well that raises a lot of alarm bells. Either they've looked into it and see no merit or they're unaware of the existence of it which would be a case of dreadfully poor marketing by the company. Either way it's not good.

 

[jbocker]

Point being that if no such organisations are giving this product a proper trial, or if they have trialed it and aren't buying, well that raises a lot of alarm bells. Either they've looked into it and see no merit or they're unaware of the existence of it which would be a case of dreadfully poor marketing by the company. Either way it's not good.

Just pondering... I think it has been trialled to death, and a (seemingly) significant white paper published on the merits of Edencrete, by a govt group of engineers. I fear the wheels of government are slow and the uptake of projects may not be at a rate where enough product is being commercially used (yet). In the meantime there is product on shelves and bunch of salespeople not able to get enough traction. Costs are ongoing and Eden Innovations are grinding the shareholders to keep operations moving.
The fear is the company goes broke while the slow wheel in the market miss the opportunity to keep a good product viable. Then again maybe the overall market is not as big as hoped.
Who knows?

I see there is no announcement about the capital raising results which closed last Friday, or have I missed something.

 

[sptrawler]

Is one of the major cement firms on its share register? One would think, if it is a technological breakthrough, someone like Adelaide Brighton would be edging their bets.
Just my thoughts, I don't hold.

 

[jbocker]

Is one of the major cement firms on its share register? One would think, if it is a technological breakthrough, someone like Adelaide Brighton would be edging their bets.
Just my thoughts, I don't hold.

To date their market has largely been in the US with concrete roads and hardstands that suffer severe abrasion. Edencrete has significantly helped with the reduction of wear and tear.
The product is an additive so not a direct competitor of groups like Adelaide Brighton, I would think.

 

[Smurf1976]

To date their market has largely been in the US with concrete roads and hardstands that suffer severe abrasion. Edencrete has significantly helped with the reduction of wear and tear.
The product is an additive so not a direct competitor of groups like Adelaide Brighton, I would think.

If I was running a concrete company then if this product is good I'd be taking over EDE real quick so as to be able to offer it to my customers and deny my competitors from doing so.

Main way I'd make a profit is selling more cement with the additive included rather than from the additive as such. Anyone who wants it has to use my cement, can't just buy the additive.

 

[kahuna1]

I see there is no announcement about the capital raising results which closed last Friday, or have I missed something.

I too note the offer closed 30th Aug. Shares meant to be issued 6th Sept. No announcement of any change to the dates or results ...

Having seen I suppose a hundred or more really decent inventions on paper and then fail, some due to political measures. some that when examined say like LUM which saved 50% power but was turned off 50% of the day, a sham .... I am not about to fall in love with any of these claims.

EDE and its background past identical near identical claims and other products which turned out to be non commercial and some I personally would call absurd, leaves me with shall we say skeptical with good cause.

I can see no break even point even if sales increased 10 fold. It is not in sight. As such, with an eye-watering overhead bill and what are absurd and insulting payments to people with no technical expertise and running this show ....

Each to their own. Opinions are just that. the merits of the product are irrelevant in so many ways. It may work, it may work well as say Metalstorms stuff, that said if the commercial market will only pay $100- for a product that costs $1,000-, its worthless. With some actually insane overheads easily seen in their accounts for this company, I am even less generous with outlook or potential.

I would say more, but ... until the results of the SPP share issue is out, I will not share as it may cause other outcomes.

 

[jbocker]

If I was running a concrete company then if this product is good I'd be taking over EDE real quick so as to be able to offer it to my customers and deny my competitors from doing so.

Main way I'd make a profit is selling more cement with the additive included rather than from the additive as such. Anyone who wants it has to use my cement, can't just buy the additive.

Very Good Point Smurf. It might go real cheap if they continue the way they are. Maybe where Edencrete should have headed, having said that maybe that is what they are trying in Korea.

 

[jbocker]

Each to their own. Opinions are just that. the merits of the product are irrelevant in so many ways. It may work, it may work well as say Metalstorms stuff, that said if the commercial market will only pay $100- for a product that costs $1,000-, its worthless. With some actually insane overheads easily seen in their accounts for this company, I am even less generous with outlook or potential.

No Argument. I have already bailed, with considerable loss.

 

[basilio]

I would be quite confident the product is excellent. The technology makes sense. The trials are real.
The problem IMV lies in the Directors pretending they can justify the entire operational costs of the company and their substantial overheads on a single product in a new market.

Interestingly enough there are many situations where a product/whatever is made and the initial company goes bust with subsequent purchasers able to capitalise on the sunk costs of the first venture. I remember Casinos were one such investment.

 

[basilio]

The latest share issue raised $2.9m . Another 3 months operation I think.

 

[basilio]

EDEN has made an initial sale of Edencrete into New York.
As usual encouraging. Still no indication of the (potential) impact on profits.
SP up 14%.

New York Ready Mix Supplier to Use EdenCrete®Pz in Standard Concrete Mix Eden Innovations’

(“Eden”)(ASX: EDE) U.S. subsidiary has received its first order for, and is currently installing a bulk tank and dispensing system for storing and dispensing, EdenCrete®Pz at a plant owned by United Transit Mix Inc. (”United Transit”), a modest sized, Brooklyn-based ready-mix concrete supplier that proposes to use EdenCrete®Pz in one of its a standard concrete mixes, for a range of possible applications, including in both flat concrete work and vertical construction, including low-rise and mid-rise construction.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20191007/pdf/44984m3z2v83lj.pdf

 

[Sdajii]

Just taking a bit of a look back at EDE, it seems to be the same old story. Great products but a team which doesn't seem as good at marketting as an average 5 year old with a lemonaide stand. If they can ever get some market traction they will likely have a very bright future. I held briefly once or twice and sold out breaking even. Haven't held for a long time because they just seem to be useless marketers, but it's worth a look once in a while in case they either work out how to sell a genuinely good product, or if a significant consumer takes it upon themself to go for it and it gains traction from there. Looking back I'm certainly glad I haven't been holding on since I first bought, and it must be a frustrating ride for long term holders. Hopefully patience will at some stage pay off.

 

[Knobby22]

Had a bit of look at this thread.

Surely if the plant was successfully producing carbon nanotubes they would be selling them at a fortune. Instead they are using them as a concrete additive.

Also surely if the product was good that would strike a deal with one of the main concrete technology firms in the area or at least a civil engineering firm. I think there are probably other existing proven alternative additives that do a similar job, probably at less cost.

I don't know that much about concrete but I know that you can buy different strengths, faster drying, less emission, more waterproofing etc. depending on the project. We use a civil engineering company to design light pole foundations.

I know it's easy to comment now in hindsight. Also maybe I got some facts wrong.

 

[Sdajii]

Had a bit of look at this thread.

Surely if the plant was successfully producing carbon nanotubes they would be selling them at a fortune. Instead they are using them as a concrete additive.

Also surely if the product was good that would strike a deal with one of the main concrete technology firms in the area or at least a civil engineering firm. I think there are probably other existing proven alternative additives that do a similar job, probably at less cost.

I don't know that much about concrete but I know that you can buy different strengths, faster drying, less emission, more waterproofing etc. depending on the project. We use a civil engineering company to design light pole foundations.

I know it's easy to comment now in hindsight. Also maybe I got some facts wrong.

I can't say I know much about concrete, but unless they are lying in a blatantly extreme way, they are producing the nannotubes. They first announced this quite some years ago now, and while I've seen some companies telling utterly absurd lies and am always sceptical of claims made by ASX listed companies, this one looks legitimate. Their concrete definitely does too. If there are better/cheaper alternatives to Edencrete, it simply begs the question of why they are also not being used.

It seems like construction companies have long term large deals with big companies, and don't want to ruin their track record of loyalty with them for the sake of using a superior product from some bunch of nobodies with nothing to do with construction other than this one product. There's also probably reluctance to bother paying more for a superior product which will last longer (why pay more for something to last 100 years when after 20 years everyone is sure to have forgotten you and your business anyway?). There's probably also just some reluctance to move away from doing what has been done for so long because it's what has always been done.

If, however, it does catch on and the consumers decide to recognise the value of the product, it'll be blue skies. I'm not at all sure that will happen, and it's entirely possible that something better and cheaper will come along before Edencrete has a chance to have its day.

 

[Smurf1976]

If there are better/cheaper alternatives to Edencrete, it simply begs the question of why they are also not being used.

Products of a proprietary nature with only one supplier will often fail if the customer has doubts as to the supplier as distinct from the product. Either their ability / willingness to deliver or financial etc. Nobody wants to be stuck with a half constructed project which can't continue because the only supplier of the required materials went belly up, failed to deliver or whatever.

If the concrete's better then broadly speaking you'd design to use less of it. If your supply of "better" concrete then ceases half way through the job you're outright stuffed. Hence the risk of a proprietary product from an unheard of tiny company - there'd be less concern about supply risk if someone major was offering it.

That said, government authorities which look after roads are usually pretty keen to try just about any possible material and as long as it's not going in a bridge don't have that risk since they can always just scale down the trial size. Even relatively small local councils will give things a go if they're convinced there's some potential merit in it and the state authorities certainly will.

 

[jbocker]

I picked this for the February Tipping Competition.
I cannot offer anything as to explain why I did that, maybe I had some sort of mental misfire.
Well it has today dropped (as I type ~-10%) on the 'strength' of its December 1/4ly report. This has potentially at least given me some room for a 'recovery' (LOL).

 

[basilio]

Like every other speccy EDE has dropped significantly in the past month.

Nonetheless a couple of announcements that suggest they are still punching on.
Firstly a repeat order for a large hardstand contract on a big wharf. Certainly shows how effective their product is.
Second a note that there should be an acceleration of road and bridge maintenance work in the US to pick up some of the slack in employment. Also of course there is so much less traffic on the roads this is a great time to close of lanes.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200402/pdf/44gn1vhyphjgjh.pdf
https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200306/pdf/44ft23hzlyvmr3.pdf

 

[Falcon347]

This company always knows how to spin their announcements to make them seem extremely positive even when their back is against the wall. As an example in the latest quarterly, they state there is now 40 companies in the US either using or specifying edencrete on a regular basis. But if you break down what they are saying and take out the 2 engineers and the ready mix companies, there is only 11 contractors placing and finishing edencrete enhanced concrete in the entire US on a regular basis (whatever regular basis mean). This pretty much explains why the sales have been so poor, only 11 contractors using the product after how many years in operation

 

[jbocker]

This company always knows how to spin their announcements to make them seem extremely positive even when their back is against the wall. As an example in the latest quarterly, they state there is now 40 companies in the US either using or specifying edencrete on a regular basis. But if you break down what they are saying and take out the 2 engineers and the ready mix companies, there is only 11 contractors placing and finishing edencrete enhanced concrete in the entire US on a regular basis (whatever regular basis mean). This pretty much explains why the sales have been so poor, only 11 contractors using the product after how many years in operation

Yeah but... and then.... we are going to...
This seems a company that comes out with both gunnas blazing!