Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

[sptrawler]

And are you still happy with him SP ? Do you reckon he's doing a good job ? Honest ? Capable ? On top of the Corona Virus ? Making good choices for the country ?

Using his Executive power Wisely for the Good of the Country rather than pardoning the ever widening circle of advisors who have lied or schemed to protect him ?

Just wondering..

No one is doing a good job of the corona virus, if someone was, they would be a standout.
You obviously dwell on him a lot, I don't spend one minute of my day thinking of Donald Trump, from what I have heard he has been taking China to task over globalisation I like that.
As for what he is like as a person I don't actually care, there isn't many politicians who I would like to emulate.
It takes a certain type of person, to take the constant personal abuse and scrutiny from the media and public in general and I know it isn't my bag.
You said:
Do you reckon he's doing a good job ? Honest ? Capable ? On top of the Corona Virus ? Making good choices for the country ?

I'm not in the U.S, so I don't know how life is there for the "common man", and I certainly am not going to take what the media says as a reflection of reality.
So when he goes to the election, your question will be answered. IMO

For me to guess answers to your questions, would just make me another media groupie, which I don't want to be.

 

[basilio]

Interesting response SP. I'll take it onboard.

 

[So_Cynical]

No one is doing a good job of the corona virus, if someone was, they would be a standout.

Singapore is the standout, 226 cases with zero deaths achieved via very strict isolation and a great medical system, temperature and or humidity may be a positive factor.

 

[sptrawler]

Singapore is the standout, 226 cases with zero deaths achieved via very strict isolation and a great medical system, temperature and or humidity may be a positive factor.

Good point So Cynical.
Singaporean people have a great sense of civic responsibility, if the Government asks them to do something, they are quick to oblige.
If they don't, Singapore is a very small place by area and the Government has very tight control.
https://www.todayonline.com/singapo...ses-result-socially-irresponsible-actions-few
From the article:
As of Monday, there were a total of 160 confirmed cases in Singapore. Of these, around 35 admitted to not minimising social contact despite having developed a fever or respiratory symptoms.
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapo...ses-result-socially-irresponsible-actions-few.
These individuals also continued to go to work and carried on with their daily activities despite being ill, the ministry said.

They also did not consult a doctor on the early onset of their symptoms, it added
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapo...ses-result-socially-irresponsible-actions-few.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Yes but why do "largely Liberal Governments" exist

Good point So Cynical.
Singaporean people have a great sense of civic responsibility, if the Government asks them to do something, they are quick to oblige.
If they don't, Singapore is a very small place by area and the Government has very tight control.

Vietnam surprises too. Reported numbers in the low 50's as per today. If the government asks them to do something, they are quick to oblige.

It's quite a disparate place and the government has very tight control

 

[sptrawler]

Yes but why do "largely Liberal Governments" exist

Vietnam surprises too. Reported numbers in the low 50's as per today. If the government asks them to do something, they are quick to oblige.

It's quite a disparate place and the government has very tight control

Yes in times like this, the Australian attitude will be tested IMO.
IMO the media has taken the pizz out of every P.M we have had in the last 20 years, and whether people like it or not, it does erode respect for authority which actually underpins law and order.
It will be interesting times, when the press calls for everyone to take notice of what the politicians have to say, when the press IMO have been telling everyone for years politicians just talk rubbish, are stupid and should be ignored.
Just my opinion.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Yes in times like this, the Australian attitude will be tested IMO.

well that's a bit embarrassing. Posting seems to retain earlier thought bubbles. I'm glad it was mild.

I do get tired of the armchair experts. Some contributors would make a better case if they varied their sources. Otherwise it's just ....

 

[satanoperca]

Yes but why do "largely Liberal Governments" exist

Vietnam surprises too. Reported numbers in the low 50's as per today. If the government asks them to do something, they are quick to oblige.

It's quite a disparate place and the government has very tight control

So Don, expert in Vietnamese business, I just put off 10 of my staff, 6 in Hanoi and 4 in Ho chi Minh.

"I do get tired of the armchair experts. Some contributors would make a better case if they varied their sources. Otherwise it's just ...."

So do I, are you one of those armchair experts? Just a question, not need to get upset

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Threw to the keeper.

 

[sptrawler]

well that's a bit embarrassing. Posting seems to retain earlier thought bubbles. I'm glad it was mild.

I do get tired of the armchair experts. Some contributors would make a better case if they varied their sources. Otherwise it's just ....

There are a lot of Asian Countries, where the people have similar attributes, the Japanese also display similar attitudes, however the Liberal Government there probably doesn't excercise as tight a control on the population.

 

[satanoperca]

Threw to the keeper.

Agreed with your comment, could see the ball coming, but thought they were a batsman, but just another commentator with no skills or more importantly wisdom.

 

[basilio]

Its on the record. The virus can be controlled. It is not a given that it will just spread uncontrollably/

Worth checking out the experience of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Singapore governments which have effectively controlled the the spread of the virus with social isolation.

They used a mixture of muscle, social support, capacity to keep people fed and supplied and a very sophisticated monitoring system.

Not to say it has been easy and simple.

It has been done and can be done. China has also sent an advisory team to Italy to assist them in their lockdown
https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/countries-contain-coronavirus-spread.html

https://www.voanews.com/science-hea...t-42-coronavirus-cases-while-neighbors-report
https://www.womensweekly.com.sg/tag/coronavirus/

Report Bookmark

 

[satanoperca]

"Its on the record. The virus can be controlled. It is not a given that it will just spread uncontrollably/"
Evidence please.
Again, did you hear chinese whisper
"Worth checking out the experience of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Singapore governments which have effectively controlled the the spread of the virus with social isolation."
Evidence?

They cannot control a virus, it will spread, it will be here year after year after year. Nothing in history has changed, including stupidity.

The so called virus will spread, part of nature, learn to live with it.

 

[basilio]

"Its on the record. The virus can be controlled. It is not a given that it will just spread uncontrollably/"
Evidence please.
Again, did you hear chinese whisper
"Worth checking out the experience of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Singapore governments which have effectively controlled the the spread of the virus with social isolation."
Evidence?

They cannot control a virus, it will spread, it will be here year after year after year. Nothing in history has changed, including stupidity.

The so called virus will spread, part of nature, learn to live with it.

Evidence ? Did you consider clicking onto the links I provided ? Would you accept as "evidence" the fact that China is now reopening its industry and has reported minimal new cases (all imported ) . Are you saying that these countries just made up their success stories and in fact have thousands of cases and scores of people dying ? How about just reading the link I have provided

On the evidence your flat statement that "they cannot control a virus" seems to fly in the face of facts.

The biggest public health scourge of humanity was smallpox. By sheer hard work. a ton on money and careful treatment of every flareup this highly dangerous disease was eliminated. Many other diseases that once raged uncontrollably have been contained with our science skills.

In my view having the attitude that "nothing can stop this virus" and that "anyone who says otherwise is a fool or a liar" is a bit of an insult to the people and countries who have absolutely worked their butts off to protect their communities and their economies. In the end if we don't follow their example to minimize this mess we will suffer quite disastrous outcomes and Taiwan, China , Singapore and others who take effective action will reap the rewards.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...y-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

 

[satanoperca]

Evidence ? Did you consider clicking onto the links I provided ? Would you accept as "evidence" the fact that China is now reopening its industry and has reported minimal new cases (all imported ) . Are you saying that these countries just made up their success stories and in fact have thousands of cases and scores of people dying ? How about just reading the link I have provided

Lets start, so what China is opening its industries.
Where did this virus start from?
Actually, where did the last 2 viruses start from? Give you a hint, starts with C
"reported minimal new cases (all imported )" you must work for the CCP. Has China been transparent in this situation, NO, but know they say everything is okay, you believe that.
"Are you saying that these countries just made up their success stories and in fact have thousands of cases and scores of people dying ? How about just reading the link I have provided"
I have consistently said, that the figures do not add up and this is way out of control.

It is a virus and nothing more, no need for panic.

HOWEVER, this statement doesn't make sense :
"On the evidence your flat statement that "they cannot control a virus" seems to fly in the face of facts."
You are making an assumption, TIME will tell whether you are correct. My personal assumption is that this virus will remain for many many years to come.
Who is correct, only time will tell.

"The biggest public health scourge of humanity was smallpox. By sheer hard work. a ton on money and careful treatment of every flareup this highly dangerous disease was eliminated. Many other diseases that once raged uncontrollably have been contained with our science skills."
Sorry, different time in history.

Do we stop cars, the ingestion of exercise sugars, lack of exercise, smoking, alcohol, pollution of the planet, no.

IT IS JUST A F___KING VIRUS, the strong will survive, the weak will die, nothing has changed since the dawn of time.

 

[sptrawler]

Its on the record. The virus can be controlled. It is not a given that it will just spread uncontrollably/

Worth checking out the experience of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Singapore governments which have effectively controlled the the spread of the virus with social isolation.

Australia isn't a China a Singapore or a Taiwan, we are nothing like them. your earlier post about crime and social unrest is closer to home. IMO

 

[macca]

I think it is all about flattening the curve of infection. There is always a limit to how many people are in ICU at any given time, no matter which country or city.

It must eventually be treated much the same way as the annual flu lottery, it is out there, if you get sick do not mingle or work, stay home.

Using China and S.Korea as guides eventually there will be herd immunity and things can calm down.

I do think the Govt needs to act firmly, both state and Feds, for now, we must stop the food panic, the actions of the Supermarkets are to be applauded and should be backed up by some sort of Govt statement.

Then we need complete transparency of how many died, how many sick and how many recovered, break it up by state and the silent majority will see that over 95% of those in reasonable health recover in a week or two.

Assuming it is similar to OS figures most will calm down and carry on almost as usual, if that happens we can selectively open borders with OS and things return to normal.

 

[basilio]

Lets start, so what China is opening its industries.
Where did this virus start from?
Actually, where did the last 2 viruses start from? Give you a hint, starts with C
"reported minimal new cases (all imported )" you must work for the CCP. Has China been transparent in this situation, NO, but know they say everything is okay, you believe that.
"Are you saying that these countries just made up their success stories and in fact have thousands of cases and scores of people dying ? How about just reading the link I have provided"
I have consistently said, that the figures do not add up and this is way out of control.

It is a virus and nothing more, no need for panic.

HOWEVER, this statement doesn't make sense :
"On the evidence your flat statement that "they cannot control a virus" seems to fly in the face of facts."
You are making an assumption, TIME will tell whether you are correct. My personal assumption is that this virus will remain for many many years to come.
Who is correct, only time will tell.

"The biggest public health scourge of humanity was smallpox. By sheer hard work. a ton on money and careful treatment of every flareup this highly dangerous disease was eliminated. Many other diseases that once raged uncontrollably have been contained with our science skills."
Sorry, different time in history.

Do we stop cars, the ingestion of exercise sugars, lack of exercise, smoking, alcohol, pollution of the planet, no.

IT IS JUST A F___KING VIRUS, the strong will survive, the weak will die, nothing has changed since the dawn of time.

Ok so you don't believe anyone else including us can do anything effective about limiting this virus.(Regardless of evidence)

You won't accept that in fact we have and can make a serious impact on the spread of COVID 19 as we have with previous diseases. And it sounds as if you don't want to waste time trying.

You basically think this is a survival of the fittest.

And of course you aren't alone. I'm quite certain whether its here, China, Singapore, Italy or the US there will be plenty of people who simply say "Sod it. I ain't gonna do this. It won't xxxxing work. It's all BS. And who cares anyway "

Governments, Police, the Armed Forces get this. When the merde hits the fan and very difficult decisions have to be made to protect the greater good there are a range of positive and negative sanctions. Positive ones firstly to encourage people to follow the instructions on how to save lives and secondly negative sanction to enforce them.

We now have a State of Emergency. It's true that more Authoritarian states will use stronger measures to protect the greater good. But in any country if people willfully or stupidly undermine critical public safety practices they cop it. Whether its lighting fires on Total Fire ban days or ignoring quarantine regulations or encouraging others to do so emergency powers are there to make things happen. That's why they exist and must exist because as you rightly pointed out

" Nothing in history has changed including stupidity."

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/disease-eradication

 

[basilio]

Using China and S.Korea as guides eventually there will be herd immunity and things can calm down.

Macca these countries did not solve the problem with herd immunity. That's total and utter BS.
They solved the issue with strict quarantining , excellent systems to support people in quarantine, very sophisticated surveillance systems to ensure the quarantine held and some ruthless processes to catch and hold people who broke the rules.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think it is all about flattening the curve of infection. There is always a limit to how many people are in ICU at any given time, no matter which country or city.

Agreed but the issue is that our limit, the number of ICU beds we have that can be allocated to this without affecting other patients who'd be using them, is at most a few hundred nationally given there's reported to be only ~2000 in the first place.

Crunching some numbers here. Real figures aren't available obviously, it's too early for that, but as a scenario:

1% of the population needs admission to intensive care because of this. That's 250,000 people.

They are in there for 2 weeks each.

There are 500 spare ICU beds (seems plausible given there's only 2000 in the first place).

Under that scenario we can go back to business as usual in 2039.

OK so those are just hypothetical figures but point is we can't sort this in 2 weeks or anything like that. No realistic playing around with the numbers gets it down to something that's measured in weeks, we're talking months or years unless someone comes up with an actual cure / vaccine, we build a lot more hospitals, or we do a mass lockdown and kill it off.