Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

[Chronos-Plutus]

A simple request to do the right thing would have been nice, but unfortunately the Vic government's hand was forced when every other state decided to lock Victoria out. We're left with no choice but to go full virus elimination to bring us back in line with the rest of the country.

I disagree; but this is where we should probably leave it, because Victoria are under the control of people that think they know best.

Good chat though; to explore the stupidity of Dan and his team, in my opinion. I guess we find out at the next election.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

A simple request to do the right thing would have been nice, but unfortunately the Vic government's hand was forced when every other state decided to lock Victoria out. We're left with no choice but to go full virus elimination to bring us back in line with the rest of the country.

No you don't have to go full crazy. If Victoria had of done the proper job from the start; they would not have been in this position.

I know personally in NSW that from the start we were serious about this in a reasonably manner.

As I said; I think we block all international travel and open up domestic movement with contact tracing.

 

[Smurf1976]

The obligation was to advise our Australian citizens to immediately come home. The advice was ignored.

You tell someone to not jump off a bridge and they do; it is not your fault.

The point is how, exactly, were they to get home?

Australia is an island and 99%+ of all overseas travelers are reliant on a commercially operated aircraft or ship in order to travel from wherever they are back to Australia. It's not like somewhere in Europe where renting or even buying a car would be an option to get home if all else fails.

There's the problem. Being told to come home is nothing more than words if there's no means to actually do so as has been the case for many. Buying a ticket for a plane that ends up not flying doesn't get you anywhere.

Blaming the unemployed for being out of work at the moment and blaming businesses in Victoria for going broke would be in the same category. True, they're out of work or broke but there's stuff all they can do to avoid it so rather harsh to blame them for a situation that's outside of their control.

Most of those stuck overseas would have come home months ago if they could get here just as businesses would be open if the law allowed them to.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

The point is how, exactly, were they to get home?

Australia is an island and 99%+ of all overseas travelers are reliant on a commercially operated aircraft or ship in order to travel from wherever they are back to Australia.

There's the problem. Being told to come home is nothing more than words if there's no means to actually do so as has been the case for many. Buying a ticket for a plane that ends up not flying doesn't get you anywhere.

Blaming the unemployed for being out of work at the moment and blaming businesses in Victoria for going broke would be in the same category. True, they're out of work or broke but there's stuff all they can do to avoid it so rather harsh to blame them for a situation that's outside of their control.

Most of those stuck overseas would have come home months ago if they could get here just as businesses would be open if the law allowed them to.

They had months to get home with plenty of room on flights at a reasonable cost. I worked on the tarmac in aviation for years.

If the biosecurity threat is so grave; then close the international border.

BUT VICTORIA DIDN'T, THEY STILL ALLOWED FLIGHTS IN AND THEY STILL ARE DOING IT NOW.

IDIOTS RUNNING THE STATES AND COUNTRY THAT HAVE BEEN VOTED IN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONNED.

 

[Smurf1976]

They had months to get home with plenty of room on flights at a reasonable cost.

Very few are in practice going to defy both the airline and government in order to force their way onto such a flight given they can't board it legally. Even if they did, odds are the Captain won't be flying that plane anywhere with that passenger onboard.

With governments capping the number of arrivals and airlines routinely bumping economy and even business class customers off flights in order to preference First Class, actually getting home is not an option for many and hasn't been since the pandemic commenced. Hence the stories from those who've booked multiple times, turned up at the airport and each time they're refused boarding.

Even if those stranded buy First Class tickets, that still only works so long as not many others try doing the same. It doesn't get around the cap on total numbers, it just bumps someone else out of economy or business but it doesn't add to the total.

Everything to do with aviation's a mess at the moment indeed there's a lack of flying to the point that for the airlines it's impossible to keep all their pilots accredited flying legitimate flights even if they do optimally rotate them around. Hence airlines doing sight seeing trips and so on. Depart and arrive at the same airport but it keeps the pilots' hours up and if someone's willing to pay to be on the flight looking at scenery well that beats flying empty planes.

How long the airlines can survive financially I don't know but the clock's ticking.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Very few are in practice going to defy both the airline and government in order to force their way onto such a flight. Even if they did, odds are the Captain won't be flying that plane anywhere with that passenger onboard.

With governments capping the number of arrivals and airlines routinely bumping economy and even business class customers off flights actually getting home is not an option for many and hasn't been since the pandemic commenced.

Aussies had 3 months to get home!

Fine: I have an intricate knowledge of commercial aviation; based on ~10 years of work experience in aviation engineering; and we disagree.

I don't think I need to say anymore. But we can keep going if you like to find more depth and to lock in more value for me.

 

[Knobby22]

Victoria will be fully operating again within weeks, aside from a handful of sectors which cannot 'socially distance' effectively, like events.

I would also expect state borders will largely come down by Christmas and we should see BIG interstate movement. Families have been kept apart for too long and many will be itching to travel interstate.

True, and compare this to the UK, now pressure for major lockdowns.
Internationally, the Victorian action is being heavily scrutinised by epidemiologists worldwide.

 

[Smurf1976]

Aussies had 3 months to get home!

Fine: I have an intricate knowledge of commercial aviation; based on ~10 years of work experience in aviation engineering; and we disagree.

No disrespect (I mean that genuinely ) but how many times in your 10 years were airlines bumping Economy Class passengers off flights because someone had bought a First Class ticket and will be occupying a First Class seat?

I'll take a good guess that you never saw it because under normal circumstances pre-pandemic that just didn't happen.

How the airlines are making money whilst flying near empty planes and leaving most passengers on the ground is another question but an important one since ultimately there must be a limit to their financial resources. At some point they need paying customers in those seats rather than leaving them at the airport.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

No disrespect (I mean that genuinely ) but how many times in your 10 years were airlines bumping Economy Class passengers off flights because someone had bought a First Class ticket and will be occupying a First Class seat?

I'll take a good guess that you never saw it because under normal circumstances pre-pandemic that just didn't happen.

How the airlines are making money whilst flying near empty planes and leaving most passengers on the ground is another question but an important one since ultimately there must be a limit to their financial resources. At some point they need paying customers in those seats.

Well I have travelled all the classes. Never bought or really paid for any flights: just paid for it in blood, sweat and tears to make sure you people got to you destination. Working all through the night; rain, hail or shine, to make sure you little ones got your destination safely; that's what I remember.

Anyway it has been a decade since then. Can't remember how many times I lost blood, how many times I was sweating; don't know about the tears but it came close to getting those planes out on time.

I lost a lot of blood and sweat!

 

[satanoperca]

Well I have travelled all the classes. Never bought or really paid for any flights: just paid for it in blood, sweat and tears to make sure you people got to you destination. Working all through the night; rain, hail or shine, to make sure you little ones got your destination safely; that's what I remember.

Anyway it has been a decade since then.

Chronos, I know you are angry, but being condescending and almost childish doesn't help with discussion, depart or provide strength to you beliefs on this subject matter.

Take a breather and then contribute with sensible discussion. Or this little one will come and break your bones (sic).

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Chronos, I know you are angry, but being condescending and almost childish doesn't help with discussion, depart or provide strength to you beliefs on this subject matter.

Take a breather and then contribute with sensible discussion. Or this little one will come and break your bones (sic).

I am not complaining; I had cuts on my hands every week from the amount of work I did on the QANTAS planes. Covered in fuel and hydraulic fluid, engine oil.

You guys do what I have done; then I will be happy to work for you.

You people have no idea about work mate.

 

[satanoperca]

Please, I worked until 3.30am last night and am still working to pay my staff (who often get paid before me, but without them i ??), who I respect for the commitment and dedication.

Hard times allow some to grow and become better people.

I should say, I never complain, I have a roof over my head, food on the table and friends & family that provide love.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Please, I worked until 3.30am last night and am still working to pay my staff (who often get paid before me, but without them i ??), who I respect for the commitment and dedication.

Hard times allow some to grow and become better people.

Haha; I have worked through the night for the majority of my working life; ~20 years.

Let me watch you grow and everyone else!

Make sure your productivity is the same as what I have delivered.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Basically lazy people; even the business owners in this country and the politicians.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Please, I worked until 3.30am last night and am still working to pay my staff (who often get paid before me, but without them i ??), who I respect for the commitment and dedication.

Hard times allow some to grow and become better people.

I should say, I never complain, I have a roof over my head, food on the table and friends & family that provide love.

I don't know: even the military and police sleep during the night when they get paid.

Perhaps it would be less than 1% of the many thousands of night shifts that I closed my eyes for less than a few hours; with nothing but coffee.

So who the F*** are you people to tell me!

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Now the perception is that there are smarter people than me; so I am free to do as please; because somebody else will think of what I have thought and developed.

Thank you and goodbye; just the exit I needed.

 

[satanoperca]

A little bit angry mate.

 

[Smurf1976]

You people have no idea about work mate.

I'll simply say that I've been there, done that with working 7 days a week, long shifts, on call 24 hours a day and all that. No doubt plenty of others have done so too in various industries which are essential to the general community. If circumstances require that I do that again then I'll do so sure, no problem.

That doesn't preclude having a sensible and polite discussion even if we disagree on the points raised.

There's no certainty as to how all this ends, we're all observing and speculating to some extent, since there's no relevant precedent for current circumstances.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

I'll simply say that I've been there, done that with working 7 days a week, long shifts, on call 24 hours a day and all that. No doubt plenty of others have done so too in various industries which are essential to the general community. If circumstances require that I do that again then I'll do so sure, no problem.

That doesn't preclude having a sensible and polite discussion even if we disagree on the points raised.

There's no certainty as to how all this ends, we're all observing and speculating to some extent, since there's no relevant precedent for current circumstances.

I am sorry to all; but I would love to see you attempt the work that I endured over ~20 years: WITHOUT CHEATING!

I don't come from a privileged family.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

A little bit angry mate.

And why shouldn't I be irritated when everyday, on just about every mainstream tv station, I have to watch these disgraceful politicians being paid hundreds of thousands a dollars a year to be incompetent and destroy the lives of the very people that they represent. Politicians that really haven't worked a hard day in their life.

I have said all I need to say on this topic.