Earth Hour Tonight

[sails]

No, I don't agree at all. If you don't agree with earth hour, don't participate.

But turning all your lights on during earth hour is the sort of selfish behaviour you see from little children.

The message that sends is "I don't give a damn about my world. I'm going to live it up now and I don't care what the world's like after I'm gone".

Ferret, I didn't turn on any more lights than we normally use, but do want the grandchildren to learn to question things. Kids that question nothing are prime targets for cults, drugs and other bizarre groups.

I want them to know that scientists are not agreed on this issue and as I understand it, even Flannery himself states that if the entire world reduces some carbon, it might make a little difference in 1,000 years. Don't you think that kids should be told when things are controversial and especially, if Flannery is right, that anything we do to reduce carbon is probably futile in the bigger scheme of things? There is enough fessing up to do just with Santa Claus, tooth fairy and easter bunny...lol

Reduction of carbon is far more about a wealth distribution tax to win the next election, IMO, and has almost nothing to do with carbon. It is exactly the "feel good" about looking after earth that Ms Gillard is counting on to get her tax in place and then use those funds to placate many who will then go on to vote for her because they are better off. That is, until she likely breaks that promise too.

I honestly believe that our kids are being brainwashed at an early age. It might explain Ms Gillards interest in education as our kids are future voters and, hopefully, explains my reasoning for not participating in the "feel good" of earth hour.

I am all for teaching kids to respect and care for their environments, homes and those that live around them. But when carbon reduction will do such a futile amount to care for earth, I do believe they should know the truth.

 

[Calliope]

Hey, but we’re ok. Australia is a rich country. We can afford to use what we want. I’ll just jump in the 4WD and head to the supermarket for a case of bottled water shipped half way around the world.

A slab of imported Heinekin would be better.

 

[Smurf1976]

No, I don't agree at all. If you don't agree with earth hour, don't participate.

But turning all your lights on during earth hour is the sort of selfish behaviour you see from little children.

The message that sends is "I don't give a damn about my world. I'm going to live it up now and I don't care what the world's like after I'm gone".

Agreed about turning all the lights on.

Anyway, I note that my pet mice are still coping quite satisfactorily with resource constraints. Food supply is one full bowl per day and there's only so much space in the maze where they prefer to sleep (they've got a proper mouse house but don't seem to like sleeping in it, probably because the maze is warmer).

Now, if a few mice can work out the basics of resource availability and make a decision not to keep breeding in response to that, then you'd think that humans would be able to understand the same logic. It seems not - we're still collectively obsessed with the notion that constant growth is somehow going to work on a finite planet.

 

[sails]

...Now, if a few mice can work out the basics of resource availability and make a decision not to keep breeding in response to that, then you'd think that humans would be able to understand the same logic. It seems not - we're still collectively obsessed with the notion that constant growth is somehow going to work on a finite planet.

Sounds like an interesting experiment, Smurf, but then the mice are not paid to have babies...lol

If this is the problem, then surely the baby bonus should be stopped instead of inflicting carbon tax if less humans means less carbon. I have heard it said that that some of the boat arrivals breed like rabbits once they get here and they get paid to do so, and if this is so, stopping the baby bonus would surely do much more than the carbon tax in addressing a controversial problem.

Ahh, but if the baby bonus is cut, then the lower income/welfare people might not vote for labor. However, they are more likely to do so if they get generous handouts from the "big polluters". So, again, it confirms in my own mind that carbon tax is not actually about carbon reduction, it is more likely a wealth distribution scheme for the purpose of getting votes for the next election...

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Population Explosion?

Like in the early 70's, the population debate has once again thrived and is evident in the MSM in Australia.

I hear words like population "explosion" and "sustainable development". I don't know how these terms are defined throughout the various reporting mechanisms as they are used in differing contexts so it's easy to get swept away in the headlines. Like anything, ask yourself -what are the facts?

Has anyone really looked at the growth rates around the world? They are in decline.

Australia and the UK have an increasing growth rates most likely due to the immigration policies, China has been discussing lifting their 1 child policy in order to lift their growth rate from near zero.

Here's the query I used for the graph below: link



I suggest when discussing Population growth ask yourself: what is the context? over what period? in which country? and what are the current immigration polices of those countries.

In Australia (ABS has the exact numbers), we have roughly 350k+ immigrants enter Australia each year.

 

[IFocus]

Re: Population Explosion?

Like in the early 70's, the population debate has once again thrived and is evident in the MSM in Australia.

I hear words like population "explosion" and "sustainable development". I don't know how these terms are defined throughout the various reporting mechanisms as they are used in differing contexts so it's easy to get swept away in the headlines. Like anything, ask yourself -what are the facts?

Has anyone really looked at the growth rates around the world? They are in decline.

Australia and the UK have an increasing growth rates most likely due to the immigration policies, China has been discussing lifting their 1 child policy in order to lift their growth rate from near zero.

Here's the query I used for the graph below: link

View attachment 42146

I suggest when discussing Population growth ask yourself: what is the context? over what period? in which country? and what are the current immigration polices of those countries.

In Australia (ABS has the exact numbers), we have roughly 350k+ immigrants enter Australia each year.

Link that to rising resource / energy usage then multiply by a guesstimate about how many more consumers will come on line to live like us happily bragging about leaving all the lights on then you a context.


We are screwed.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Population Explosion?

We are screwed.

Eat, drink, be merry, for tomorrow we die.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Re: Population Explosion?

Like in the early 70's, the population debate has once again thrived and is evident in the MSM in Australia.

I should have also added this to the bottom of my original post:

"In addition, the hysteria evident in the 21st century also resembles the same hysteria from 40 yrs ago: food production, climate change (cooling), fuel shortages, air pollution that would block out the sun to name but a few.

The difference today is the ability of the internet and msm to propagate hysterics rapidly and with relative ease. Communication technologies also provide the ability to change from one class of hysteria to another or run several in parallel in order to drive social change and acceptance.

This strategy of imaginary fears will guarantee an ideological following that becomes psychologically "trapped" for extended periods of time where facts or alternative views have little hope of influence. This repeat of the 70's hysterics is occurring in plain sight today and will continue until this depressive social mood cycle comes to an end or a new greater class of hysterics is adopted."​

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Re: Population Explosion?

Eat, drink, be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Yep

 

[sails]

Re: Population Explosion?

...The difference today is the ability of the internet and msm to propagate hysterics rapidly and with relative ease. Communication technologies also provide the ability to change from one class of hysteria to another or run several in parallel in order to drive social change and acceptance...

The internet also allows for others to challenge those hysterical views - but I suppose that is why the alp would like to censor the internet.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Re: Population Explosion?

Has anyone really looked at the growth rates around the world? They are in decline.

From these figures for India we can see that there has indeed been a declining annual population growth rate in recent years. Nevertheless the population had increased from 369,880,000 in year 1950 to 1,155,830,000 in year 2010. Population had multiplied more than three times in 60 years and an example of compounding population growth. Note the projection for lower growth rate toward 2050.