Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Earth Hour Tonight

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Prospector said:
I also read today that Virgin Blue was holding a 3000 strong dinner by candlelight to do their bit last night. Only problem was, people flew in from all around Australia to attend. Hmm!
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Is this true? If so ... what do lemmings eat for dinner, something that doesn't require thought I imagine?
 
Prospector said:
I didnt actually think they were going to grab all our power and be left in the dark, I guess my point was more that 1 company uses half the power of 2 million domestic users, then really, what we people do domestically just doesnt cut it!

If there is a fixed amount that can be used under the Kyoto protocol, and BHP needs to use it for production, then what exactly, or by whom, must be given back in order for BHP to get the power it needs?
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Kyoto caps total emissions. So if I buy a tonne of coal and set it on fire in the driveway then that simply means someone else, somewhere else has to pollute less. I haven't added to total emissions.

Same with motorsport, christmas lights or anything else. They're not adding to total emissions since they're going to be a set level anyway.

It's hard to be specific as to what actually happens to achieve the emissions cap - government is still working that out. But it comes down to limiting the output of some other polluting activity somewhere. So could be more public transport, greater use of renewables etc.

BHP will have to use some renewable energy just like everyone else by the way. It's the law. Only trouble is the previous government set the % rather low but no doubt that will be changed now (given Rudd's support for the issue etc).
 
Smurf1976 said:
Kyoto caps total emissions. So if I buy a tonne of coal and set it on fire in the driveway then that simply means someone else, somewhere else has to pollute less. I haven't added to total emissions.

Same with motorsport, christmas lights or anything else. They're not adding to total emissions since they're going to be a set level anyway.

It's hard to be specific as to what actually happens to achieve the emissions cap - government is still working that out. But it comes down to limiting the output of some other polluting activity somewhere. So could be more public transport, greater use of renewables etc.

BHP will have to use some renewable energy just like everyone else by the way. It's the law. Only trouble is the previous government set the % rather low but no doubt that will be changed now (given Rudd's support for the issue etc).
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Yep, but in our current water situation (where again we only have a small amount of water to divvy up) it is the farmers and domestic users who have had their quotas cut through drastic restrictions, while industry (and that includes coke a cola and beer production, as well as the miners and other industries) have had no restrictions at all. So once again, it will be the easy targets who shoulder the responsibility.
 
Prospector said:
Yep, but in our current water situation (where again we only have a small amount of water to divvy up) it is the farmers and domestic users who have had their quotas cut through drastic restrictions, while industry (and that includes coke a cola and beer production, as well as the miners and other industries) have had no restrictions at all. So once again, it will be the easy targets who shoulder the responsibility.
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Can't argue with that.

In the context of energy it is lights, christmas lights, motorsport and so on that are the "easy" targets despite being a minority of energy use.

Smelters and mines are the traditional target in order to minimise the impact on votes.

What really concerns me though is that mainland Australia is now in the situation Tasmania was in 25 years ago - an inability to easily increase energy supply. As was the case in Tas, I fear the result will simply be greater reliance on raw materials production with overseas processing. It gave Tas the "woodchip wonderland" and could easily end with SA etc exporting unprocessed ores.

When you go to lower value production you have to scale it up massively to make the financials work. Look at the forests in Tas if you want to see where that leads.

As for the media and Earth Hour, don't take your math lessons from whoever wrote this.

Energy authorities say the impact of last night's Earth Hour event was the equivalent of two large power stations being temporarily shut down

...We're still finalising the data, but we do believe that there was at least 1,000 megawatts reduction across the national grid
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What's wrong with it? Well 1000MW isn't even one large power station and certainly not two. Large is typically taken to mean 2000MW or thereabouts with NSW and Vic both having plants that size or larger (Qld comes close too).
 
Smurf1976 said:
..greater reliance on raw materials production with overseas processing. It gave Tas the "woodchip wonderland" and could easily end with SA etc exporting unprocessed ores.
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so
a) could that be how we are achieving Kyoto targets whether or not we are /were signed up?, and
b) why we complain about China's (emerging) carbon footprint, when they are doing the hard hards of turning mountains of ore into steel for us to import - no mess, no questions asked. Hey, we've got clean hands here - but those Chinese - such polluters!
c) I guess as long as we export uranium, we are at least letting others turn ore to steel with minimum environmental effect. :2twocents :eek:
 
Smurf1976 said:
What's wrong with it? Well 1000MW isn't even one large power station and certainly not two. Large is typically taken to mean 2000MW or thereabouts with NSW and Vic both having plants that size or larger (Qld comes close too).
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Thanks for the facts Smurf ... be interesting to measure the hot air coming from the PR machines.
 
2020hindsight said:
so
a) could that be how we are achieving Kyoto targets whether or not we are /were signed up?, and
b) why we complain about China's (emerging) carbon footprint, when they are doing the hard hards of turning mountains of ore into steel for us to import - no mess, no questions asked. Hey, we've got clean hands here - but those Chinese - such polluters!
c) I guess as long as we export uranium, we are at least letting others turn ore to steel with minimum environmental effect. :2twocents :eek:
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Basically yes. A lot of offshoring of emissions will go on I'm sure. Kyoto etc really only works if there are no such loopholes - otherwise its effect is that of an economic treaty and not an environmental one.
 
Prospector said:
I also read today that Virgin Blue was holding a 3000 strong dinner by candlelight to do their bit last night. Only problem was, people flew in from all around Australia to attend. Hmm!
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Prospector, they may have had candles on the tables but I doubt they were the only source of lighting. There has been much publicity about Mr Branson's little party here in Qld and this is the first time I've heard anything about a connection to the dreaded Earth Hour. No sign of any candles in the report in today's paper, featuring all the beautiful people.

Honestly can't remember now, but I think Mr Branson was here in Oz to shortly announce some new service, probably to L.A.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Anecdotally, there do seem to be quite a few more people out and about tonight....
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Shhhh..... don't let the house-breaking gangs know that these Earth Hours are a felons best friend.... (darker environment, more empty houses - they gotta love that!).

Anyone know whether house break-in crimes peaked last night between 8-9?


AJ
 
Last year Sydney alone ;)
This year 30 million people in 380 towns worldwide.
that's pretty strong leadership you gotta admit.

Even google website ... (changed colour lol - yeah right - no question this is symbolic, but that's as it was meant to be)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/30/2202912.htm?section=justin
Switch off, save planet message goes global
Posted 1 hour 7 minutes ago

People switched off lights around the world on Saturday, dimming buildings, hotels, restaurants and bars to show concern with global warming.

Up to 30 million people were expected to have switched off their lights for 60 minutes by the time Earth Hour - which started in Suva in Fiji and Christchurch in New Zealand - has completed its cycle westward.

More than 380 towns and cities and 3,500 businesses in 35 countries signed up for the campaign that is in its second year after it began in 2007 in Sydney alone.
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Google goes dark
In a tip of its virtual hat to the event, the background of Google's home page turned to black from white on more than a dozen country sites including Google.com. A message on the site read: "We've turned the lights out. Now it's your turn."
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Organisers of Earth Hour said that while switching off a light for one hour would have little impact on carbon emissions, the fact that so many people were taking part showed how much interest and concern at the climate crisis had taken hold.
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Smurf1976 said:
Kyoto caps total emissions. So if I buy a tonne of coal and set it on fire in the driveway then that simply means someone else, somewhere else has to pollute less. I haven't added to total emissions.
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I am bit cynical about 1 hour saving planet exercise.
If people litter, throw cigarette butts, do not recycle, why would they want to participate in this exercise?

Again, vocal minority in action would be nice if it caught up, but I doubt very much.

As to capping emissions, I think it will be focused on production side.

You dig up so much coal, there is going to be so much CO2 produced, and it will be taxed accordingly.

Cost will be passed on to consumers and if consumer has any choice, can pick up dearer option but cleaner if is from vocal minority, or cheaper if is from majority.

Tax on pollution producing products will eventually make them unattractive as non-polluting will be cheaper, not necessarily to produce, but to sell.
 
Yes, it's ridiculous. Symbolic only for carbon tax believers.

Lights will be staying on in this house - as much as a protest against carbon tax as anything else.

Grandkids need to learn to question controversial theories being apparently taught as fact in schools.
 
sails said:
Yes, it's ridiculous. Symbolic only for carbon tax believers.

Lights will be staying on in this house - as much as a protest against carbon tax as anything else.

Grandkids need to learn to question controversial theories being apparently taught as fact in schools.
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We in Townsville will miss it thanks to daylight saving in NSW.

It's so good to live in a state where a chook knows it's a chook, unlike the population of Balmain and other areas in NSW who imo are all chooks.

I love you Queensland.

gg
 
There's a facebook group called: National Carbon Onset Day!!! March 28th


On March 28th lets all turn on as many lights as possible!!! Come on everyone, it will be fun! Let's show those bleeding heart liberals that we can make a point too!!

Let's keep the electrical company's in business and possibly even create some jobs!!!!
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Sound like a good idea to me
 
I don't go for this 'saving' idea at all. My idea of "Energy Australia" is that you'd use however much you want, whenever you want, powered by the sun, wind and tide.
 
What a crack up. Do the "do gooders" believe they are actually saving anything with this arm waving hysteria? The electricity company will continue to shove coal and gas into the furnace to boil water to drive a turbine to generate electicity irrespective of them turning off lights.

Now wait a minute ........ What would happen if everyone turned there lights/airconditioning etc all back on at the same time? DOH ! More coal and gas for the furnace to cover the "spike" in energy use. :banghead:
 
trainspotter said:
...Now wait a minute ........ What would happen if everyone turned there lights/airconditioning etc all back on at the same time? DOH ! More coal and gas for the furnace to cover the "spike" in energy use. :banghead:
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Do you think the carbon believers would have even thought of those implications? They would surely just put everything back on with a warm fuzzy feeling that they have done something nice for "earth". How deluded can some people be?... Too busy trying to knock Abbott off his perch?

Problem is that this whole carbon tax debacle doesn't appear to be well thought out at all. Only Flannery has had the decency to let us know that it would take 1,000 years for a carbon tax to make any difference...lol

If it weren't for the money grab, I might have been more willing to look at it. But the money grab speaks volumes that this is not about carbon reduction, it's all about the money.
 
Gosh, I haven't posted in over a year but feel compelled to do so on this thread. I think it is all wank. There is the Grand Prix in Melbourne this week, and all the carbon emissions that involves even just getting the cars here, then there is the race itself. We had the Clipsal Race here last week, same deal. And tonight we have the Crows versus Hawthorn football match under lights. If we were the least bit serious about cutting down on carbon emissions then none of these events would occur. But no, we have to have the Copenhagens, the Earth Hours, and then, this stupid carbon tax just so we can pat ourselves on the back and say we care. Well, we are such arrogant and stupid people to think we can stop climate change because mother nature has been changing the climate for millions of years and she is much better at it than we are.
 
Prospector said:
Gosh, I haven't posted in over a year but feel compelled to do so on this thread. I think it is all wank. There is the Grand Prix in Melbourne this week, and all the carbon emissions that involves even just getting the cars here, then there is the race itself. We had the Clipsal Race here last week, same deal. And tonight we have the Crows versus Hawthorn football match under lights. If we were the least bit serious about cutting down on carbon emissions then none of these events would occur. But no, we have to have the Copenhagens, the Earth Hours, and then, this stupid carbon tax just so we can pat ourselves on the back and say we care. Well, we are such arrogant and stupid people to think we can stop climate change because mother nature has been changing the climate for millions of years and she is much better at it than we are.
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Totally agree and good to have you back, Prospector...:)
 
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