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Great point tech/a, but this is how I see it as a Mechanical Systems trader
In between, just hang on for the ride
No matter what your selection criteria was, or what has motivated you to place a ‘buy’ order, you have to realise everything is out of your control from that point on till you elect to sell that security - just hang on for the ride.
What happens in between
After you place a buy order you will either be exuberant when the share price increases or feel despondent experiencing a white knuckle ride to the bottom.
Trading is bat $hit scary sometimes.
Trading is an emotional roller coaster and how you manage your psychology really matters even more than your stock selection.
Skate.
Yes, this is what the 'Dump it here' thread is all about, differing points of view, you have expressed your view in a respectful manner from a position much, much higher than mine - you even went as far as quoting a reference site for others to view. (well done)
captain black, this is exactly what the 'Dump it here' thread was lacking, quality posts from quality members.
Skate.
Feedback & disclaimer
I have great admiration for the captain's coding ability and the logical way he implement a solution, his measured responses to other forum members delivering help without & never ever being condescending.
The captain has been very kind to me over the years & previously when I have had an issue (he fixed for me) his ongoing help has exceeded all my expectations.
tech/a, I'm not going to mention as the duck finds my attitude when it comes to gratitude a bit over the top.
Skate.
The admiration is always mutual Skate, you've done a great job with this thread.
As you know I'm using machine learning more and more in my systems nowadays but most of what I've done in the past involves using scientific and statistical methods to test pattern setups. I respect your opinion that patterns are subjective and only appear in hindsite but the path I've gone down in my trading is at odds with that. As we've found out over the years, we're quite different people living quite different lives, it's no surprise we approach trading differently
Let me give you an analogy on having a great strategy, being a great coder & why we're quite different.
Peter Brock (otherwise known as "Peter Perfect")
He won the Bathurst 1,000 nine times, imagine if he gave you his winning car, do you honestly believe you would be able to win Bathurst even once ?
His 'ability', 'skill' & his 'mental toughness' decided the win, it's not when he got into the car, not even when he exited the car but how he handled the car during the race.
Traders are all different
That is one of the nice thing about traders "we are all so different", trading different styles, trading different markets & as you say -"it's no surprise we approach trading differently" (exactly)
Skate.
Captain what are you using to implement machine learning.
IE Software and Code type?
Skate
Patterns are the story told by traders over X periods.
Like an airport--Busy--Quite---Under attack!
UPDATE - The previous post was a bit cryptic (explanation highlighted)
Peter Brock
His 'ability', 'skill' & his 'mental toughness' decided the win, it's not when he got into the car (the BUY), not even when he exited the car (the SELL) but how he handled the car during the race. (the TRADE)
Skate.
I have never stumbled upon a good idea when I'm in the wrong frame of mind.
That's why this thread is good. It has the right vibe. Readers can use that vibe to go and find an edge, code it, trade it.
I started with what I already knew. I do some work on open source projects using Python and I've been using Amibroker almost since it began so started out with small projects using Python machine learning combined with existing futures systems on Amibroker.
My last project for example was using machine learning to build a better index filter for one of my ASX momentum systems.
I've looked at other platforms, most recently Metatrader 5 with ENCOG but I've got so much on the go at the moment it's difficult to find time to learn another language.
I've heard that there's some bloke called "tech/a" coming out with some interesting software soon. Looking forward to it
As you've said a few times, it turns your views on system design upside down.
I remember starting out with Amibroker all those years ago and coming across Fred Tonetti's Particle Swarm Optimisation and Intelligent Optimiser plugins and knowing this was how I was going to find an edge.
I get the same feeling now with machine learning. Things change so quickly, you either adapt or die.
Gringotts Bank, your post is music to my ears & thank you for experiencing the right "vibe" as you put it. There maybe a post on this thread that could be the catalysis for change & I mean a change for the better.
We have a great community here on ASF but sometimes the proper discourse is lacking, all ideas & views should be able to be expressed & responded to with this same "vibe" that you highlight.
Skate.
Skate, you mentioned earlier today that you spent 3 months studying Japanese Candlesticks.
The Books
1. JAPANESE CANDLESTICK CHARTING TECHNIQUES "A Contemporary Guide to the Ancient Investment Techniques of the Far East" by STEVE NISON
2. PROFITABLE CANDLESTICK TRADING "Pinpointing Market Opportunities to Maximize Profits" by Stephen Bigalow
Training Course
A full 2 day training course with Steve Nison (podcast)
I wasted a lot of time reading
Many of the books that I have read have turned out to be of little value at all, so I just wasted my time, those two books above are included. Trading books take a great deal of concentration reading & more time consuming correlating the perceived important information & committing it to paper.
Captain, I hear what you say
1. "I'm not a fan of candlestick patterns in isolation but I disagree that trading can't be approached using scientific methods. There's no discretion at all using automated trading systems"
2. "Patterns can be coded and tested. Thomas Bulkowski's patternsite has a wealth of patterns he's tested. Most of my futures systems are built around tested and coded patterns"
From my perspective
Understanding candlestick patterns setups that work sometimes but not at other times didn't enrich my trading life.
I'll be answering the captains questions in a series of additional posts.
Skate.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong) in our discussions that you've mentioned also looking at trading Forex
I completed the MAX Primer Webinar course (not the standard course but the "MAX" course) it was intense with hours of homework, from memory there were around 10 students in the class room. The course delivered as promised, it was enjoyable & I consider I learnt a lot, but it Forex Trading (the style) wasn't for me.
http://www.maxtradingsystem.com/max-primer-course/
The MAX System (summary if interested)
The MAX Trading System is designed to put you on the right path to trading success. MAX is our acronym for Momentum, Acceleration and Exit.
Trend that exhibits good momentum (interesting)
The successful trader understands the need to take advantage of opportunity when there is a trend that exhibits good momentum. MAX traders always use a hard stop for safety, but in normal trading conditions our stops are never hit…the are only for emergencies, such as an unscheduled news announcement. Training includes basic as well as advanced strategies. Also included are indicators, templates, and risk management training.
A recorded video was a nice touch
Each class session is video recorded for your convenience. This provides for work and family schedules, as well as time zone differences. Through our personal mentoring and precise teaching methods, you have the potential of becoming one of the few traders who succeed.
Disclaimer
Forex, Futures, Stocks and Options trading has large potential rewards, but also large potential risk.
Skate.
You also spent some time using Metastock?
Learning to code
Correct, I spent a lot of time using Metastock. Learning to code in Metastock was much easier than learning to code Amibroker Formula Language (AFL). My trading education was going along fine till you learn the limitations of Metastock backtesting feature. I changed over to Amibroker, met you & as they say, "the rest is history"
Skate
The learning curve with Amibroker is very steep if you want to use it to it's full capabilities. Keeping up with all the new features TJ introduces is a full time job on it's own!
Dump it Here
- Thread starter Skate
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Great point tech/a, but this is how I see it as a Mechanical Systems trader
In between, just hang on for the ride
No matter what your selection criteria was, or what has motivated you to place a ‘buy’ order, you have to realise everything is out of your control from that point on till you elect to sell that security - just hang on for the ride.
What happens in between
After you place a buy order you will either be exuberant when the share price increases or feel despondent experiencing a white knuckle ride to the bottom.
Trading is bat $hit scary sometimes.
Trading is an emotional roller coaster and how you manage your psychology really matters even more than your stock selection.
Skate.
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Lol, you did ask for alternative views
Yes, this is what the 'Dump it here' thread is all about, differing points of view, you have expressed your view in a respectful manner from a position much, much higher than mine - you even went as far as quoting a reference site for others to view. (well done)
captain black, this is exactly what the 'Dump it here' thread was lacking, quality posts from quality members.
Skate.
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Feedback & disclaimer
I have great admiration for the captain's coding ability and the logical way he implement a solution, his measured responses to other forum members delivering help without & never ever being condescending.
The captain has been very kind to me over the years & previously when I have had an issue (he fixed for me) his ongoing help has exceeded all my expectations.
tech/a, I'm not going to mention as the duck finds my attitude when it comes to gratitude a bit over the top.
Skate.
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My views on coding a good strategy
Coding a strategy
Let me give you an analogy - I don’t care how often you read a Boeing 747 instruction manual or even a Helicopter instruction manual – I can guarantee you that in the end you will not be a good pilot – even if you get it off the ground there would be no guarantee that the plane or helicopter would be safe under your control.
We all need help
This is exactly where my coding ability is, weak at best & amateurish at worst - reading something doesn’t mean I understand it.
Skate.
Coding a strategy
Let me give you an analogy - I don’t care how often you read a Boeing 747 instruction manual or even a Helicopter instruction manual – I can guarantee you that in the end you will not be a good pilot – even if you get it off the ground there would be no guarantee that the plane or helicopter would be safe under your control.
We all need help
This is exactly where my coding ability is, weak at best & amateurish at worst - reading something doesn’t mean I understand it.
Skate.
- Joined
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The admiration is always mutual Skate, you've done a great job with this thread.
As you know I'm using machine learning more and more in my systems nowadays but most of what I've done in the past involves using scientific and statistical methods to test pattern setups. I respect your opinion that patterns are subjective and only appear in hindsite but the path I've gone down in my trading is at odds with that. As we've found out over the years, we're quite different people living quite different lives, it's no surprise we approach trading differently
- Joined
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Let me give you an analogy on having a great strategy, being a great coder & why we're quite different.
Peter Brock (otherwise known as "Peter Perfect")
He won the Bathurst 1,000 nine times, imagine if he gave you his winning car, do you honestly believe you would be able to win Bathurst even once ?
His 'ability', 'skill' & his 'mental toughness' decided the win, it's not when he got into the car, not even when he exited the car but how he handled the car during the race.
Traders are all different
That is one of the nice thing about traders "we are all so different", trading different styles, trading different markets & as you say -"it's no surprise we approach trading differently" (exactly)
Skate.
tech/a
No Ordinary Duck
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Captain what are you using to implement machine learning.
IE Software and Code type?
Skate
Patterns are the story told by traders over X periods.
Like an airport--Busy--Quite---Under attack!
- Joined
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- 24,319
UPDATE - The previous post was a bit cryptic (explanation highlighted)
Peter Brock
His 'ability', 'skill' & his 'mental toughness' decided the win, it's not when he got into the car (the BUY), not even when he exited the car (the SELL) but how he handled the car during the race. (the TRADE)
Skate.
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I have never stumbled upon a good idea when I'm in the wrong frame of mind.
That's why this thread is good. It has the right vibe. Readers can use that vibe to go and find an edge, code it, trade it.
- Joined
- 24 October 2005
- Posts
- 1,302
- Reactions
- 835
I started with what I already knew. I do some work on open source projects using Python and I've been using Amibroker almost since it began so started out with small projects using Python machine learning combined with existing futures systems on Amibroker.
My last project for example was using machine learning to build a better index filter for one of my ASX momentum systems.
I've looked at other platforms, most recently Metatrader 5 with ENCOG but I've got so much on the go at the moment it's difficult to find time to learn another language.
I've heard that there's some bloke called "tech/a" coming out with some interesting software soon. Looking forward to it
As you've said a few times, it turns your views on system design upside down.
I remember starting out with Amibroker all those years ago and coming across Fred Tonetti's Particle Swarm Optimisation and Intelligent Optimiser plugins and knowing this was how I was going to find an edge.
I get the same feeling now with machine learning. Things change so quickly, you either adapt or die.
- Joined
- 28 December 2013
- Posts
- 6,392
- Reactions
- 24,319
Gringotts Bank, your post is music to my ears & thank you for experiencing the right "vibe" as you put it. There maybe a post on this thread that could be the catalysis for change & I mean a change for the better.
We have a great community here on ASF but sometimes the proper discourse is lacking, all ideas & views should be able to be expressed & responded to with this same "vibe" that you highlight.
Skate.
- Joined
- 24 October 2005
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- 1,302
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- 835
Skate, you mentioned earlier today that you spent 3 months studying Japanese Candlesticks. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) in our discussions that you've mentioned also looking at trading Forex and also spent some time using Metastock?
I wonder if you'd mind sharing the path you've followed to reach the stage you're at with your trading now? eg. Software you've tried, different analysis techniques you've looked at, different investment vehicles (you mentioned LIC's) etc.
I wonder if you'd mind sharing the path you've followed to reach the stage you're at with your trading now? eg. Software you've tried, different analysis techniques you've looked at, different investment vehicles (you mentioned LIC's) etc.
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Skate, you mentioned earlier today that you spent 3 months studying Japanese Candlesticks.
The Books
1. JAPANESE CANDLESTICK CHARTING TECHNIQUES "A Contemporary Guide to the Ancient Investment Techniques of the Far East" by STEVE NISON
2. PROFITABLE CANDLESTICK TRADING "Pinpointing Market Opportunities to Maximize Profits" by Stephen Bigalow
Training Course
A full 2 day training course with Steve Nison (podcast)
I wasted a lot of time reading
Many of the books that I have read have turned out to be of little value at all, so I just wasted my time, those two books above are included. Trading books take a great deal of concentration reading & more time consuming correlating the perceived important information & committing it to paper.
Captain, I hear what you say
1. "I'm not a fan of candlestick patterns in isolation but I disagree that trading can't be approached using scientific methods. There's no discretion at all using automated trading systems"
2. "Patterns can be coded and tested. Thomas Bulkowski's patternsite has a wealth of patterns he's tested. Most of my futures systems are built around tested and coded patterns"
From my perspective
Understanding candlestick patterns setups that work sometimes but not at other times didn't enrich my trading life.
I'll be answering the captains questions in a series of additional posts.
Skate.
- Joined
- 24 October 2005
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Thanks for sharing your trading path Skate.
I hadn't heard of Steve Nison, have vague memories of Louise Bedford writing some stuff on candlesticks.
A quick Google of Steve Nison has this review near the top of the search results:
https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/steve-nison/
Sounds like they agree with your thoughts
I hadn't heard of Steve Nison, have vague memories of Louise Bedford writing some stuff on candlesticks.
A quick Google of Steve Nison has this review near the top of the search results:
https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/steve-nison/
Sounds like they agree with your thoughts
- Joined
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I think (correct me if I'm wrong) in our discussions that you've mentioned also looking at trading Forex
I completed the MAX Primer Webinar course (not the standard course but the "MAX" course) it was intense with hours of homework, from memory there were around 10 students in the class room. The course delivered as promised, it was enjoyable & I consider I learnt a lot, but it Forex Trading (the style) wasn't for me.
http://www.maxtradingsystem.com/max-primer-course/
The MAX System (summary if interested)
The MAX Trading System is designed to put you on the right path to trading success. MAX is our acronym for Momentum, Acceleration and Exit.
Trend that exhibits good momentum (interesting)
The successful trader understands the need to take advantage of opportunity when there is a trend that exhibits good momentum. MAX traders always use a hard stop for safety, but in normal trading conditions our stops are never hit…the are only for emergencies, such as an unscheduled news announcement. Training includes basic as well as advanced strategies. Also included are indicators, templates, and risk management training.
A recorded video was a nice touch
Each class session is video recorded for your convenience. This provides for work and family schedules, as well as time zone differences. Through our personal mentoring and precise teaching methods, you have the potential of becoming one of the few traders who succeed.
Disclaimer
Forex, Futures, Stocks and Options trading has large potential rewards, but also large potential risk.
Skate.
- Joined
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You also spent some time using Metastock?
Learning to code
Correct, I spent a lot of time using Metastock. Learning to code in Metastock was much easier than learning to code Amibroker Formula Language (AFL). My trading education was going along fine till you learn the limitations of Metastock backtesting feature. I changed over to Amibroker, met you & as they say, "the rest is history"
Skate
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Thanks again for sharing.
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The learning curve with Amibroker is very steep if you want to use it to it's full capabilities. Keeping up with all the new features TJ introduces is a full time job on it's own!