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basilio said:
Really Wayne ? For Dogs sake get a grip on yourself. Nothing in those tenants fits Biden. It only fits a relatively small number of politicians.
But the world view and working principles are well worth thinking about
Click to expand...
It's "tenets".

I didn't say that, but much of what Biden stands for can be construed into a completely different and utterly more toxic and destructive ideology.

Trump certainly has negatives, he is a most certainly a narcissist and a troll, but he is not a fascist. That assertion is ridiculous and highlights a greater psychopathology in his detractors than in the man himself.

Sam Harris anyone? Indeed, basilio et al?

To be sure, ideologically ultimately I'd like a DeSantis, or a Tulsi, or RFK jr, or a Rand Paul (all for very different reasons), over the God Emperor....

...after he wins this term.

Why? Because it will set up the conditions, ironically, for a return to sanity, whether that be via Dems or Pubs.

Under your favoured paradigm, the US and ultimately the West is doomed. I know you and your Komrades want that for some pathological reason, but the test of us don't.

Trump 2024 would certainly be tumultuous, but it is the fork in the road.... conservative/classical liberal sanity or pro(re)gressive insanity and overreach.
 
Wayne you wanted a definition of Fascism. I offered one from Robert Reich. Why not disregard his observations about Donald Trump and talk to the question of what is Fascism?
 
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Fas
basilio said:
Wayne you wanted a definition of Fascism. I offered one from Robert Reich. Why not disregard his observations about Donald Trump and talk to the question of what is Fascism?
Click to expand...
Fascism is a particular comprehensive ideology, not just what the Komrades don't like.
 
basilio said:
It is. And that comprehensive ideology was what Reich researched and summarised.
Click to expand...
We can probably mostly agree on various tenets of fascism. It's not hard, it is fairly well documented.

My arguement is in people of the left's cherry picking of certain tenets fascism and then cherry-picking various statements of whomever, Trump in this case, and piecing together on an ad hoc basis a case that someone is a fascist.

Disingenuous, and pure evil.
 
My first observation was that the discussion was about the major tenets of fascism. Ok broad agreement there.

With regards to Donald Trump and how he fits into the picture ? Robert Reich offered the analysis of an Authoritarian Government vs a Fascist government in the context of the current Republican Party. I do not believe he was disingenous and pure evil. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
 
You've b You've been wrong for 8 years straight, so far.
 
basilio said:
Wayne you wanted a definition of Fascism. I offered one from Robert Reich. Why not disregard his observations about Donald Trump and talk to the question of what is Fascism?
Click to expand...
Told you! Get the definition first.
Otherwise you just get abused.
 
I am stressed at work and don't need this. I will turn off the political threads till at least September.
Freedom matters.
 
Here's an article from a Trump hater that found 5 so called "experts" on fascists (that also didn't like him).
No one thought Trump was one.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...s/21521958/what-is-fascism-signs-donald-trump

Like I said it's used to liberally. So is "nazi". The nazis would shoot children because they were noisy. People doing the "salute" are better classed as idiots/white supremacists.

Example of how extreme the nazis were:
I can't remember names just the story. But one of the high level nazi officers had been sentenced to death.
One of the US jewish prosecutors took pity and went to see him in the cells to ask if he wanted to pass a message to his family before he died. The nazi officer said to him something along the lines of " We will get revenge on you US jews, you will pay a price".
Even at that moment his only thought was still hatred. The brutality was real amongst those higher up.

I have no doubt there are fascists that might be sympathetic to some Trump stances. But he is a lot of negative things, but isn't a fascists.
 
Thanks for the Vox article Moxjo. It certainly highlighted the range of authoritarian and anti democratic behaviors that Donald Trump was doing up until Oct 2020. Does that give one a hint about why a similar analysis written in 2023 might differ ?

Donald Trump attempted to overturn the 2020 election results and hold power illegally against the constitution. He inspired the January 6th riot outside Congress in an effort to force Mike Pence and Congress to not inaugurate President Biden. The rioters who led the mob into the White house and chased representatives were the "idiots/white/supremacists/fascists" you alluded to.

_____________________________

That was a very thoughtful article. Well worth checking it in full.
 
Meanwhile Donald Trump brought an excavator with him when he was interviewed on Fox News regarding the "unfortunate oversight of those pesky Top secret documents he knew nothing about ".

He clearly needs to dig THE BIGGEST HOLE POSSIBLE in which he can bury himself come the upcoming trial . And for good measure he threw in his usual lies about fake election results in 2020. Yep this is Trump in all his glorious multi coloured clothes

Trump’s Fox News interview was a defense attorney’s nightmare​


The former president offered a confusing, and likely damaging, defense of his latest indictment.

By Li Zhouli@vox.com Jun 20, 2023, 3:40pm EDT

Share this story​


Former President Donald Trump sat down for a Fox News interview addressing his latest indictment. Getty Images
Li Zhou is a politics reporter at Vox, where she covers Congress and elections. Previously, she was a tech policy reporter at Politico and an editorial fellow at the Atlantic.

In a tense Fox News interview on Monday, former President Donald Trump offered a confusing defense in response to his recent indictment, touting his right to keep sensitive documents and effectively admitting that he held onto them even after he was supposed to return them. Trump’s interview follows a 37-count indictment that’s centered on his decision to take classified national security documents after leaving the White House, for which he was arraigned in court in Miami last week.

“I have every right to have those boxes,” Trump told Fox News host Bret Baier as part of their conversation, while claiming that these documents were “declassified,” a point the indictment rebuts. “This is purely a Presidential Records Act. This is not a criminal thing.”
Trump’s statements, many of which were meandering and difficult to follow, both provided a muddled defense, and may have offered fodder to reinforce some of the charges against him. By acknowledging that he had the documents in his possession and that he had reasons for not returning them promptly, Trump’s statements corroborated allegations he’s charged with regarding mishandling these materials.

Trump’s Fox News interview was a defense attorney’s nightmare

The former president offered a confusing, and likely damaging, defense of his latest indictment.
www.vox.com
 
He is a lot of things but he isn't a fascist. Every move of Trump was scrutinised. There were also a lot of rewriting of what actually happened by the opposition.

Dems wanted a narrative of "Trump is Hitler".
The comparison was not only ridiculous, it was plain stupid. If anything we are now finding the democrats have authorities and media in their pocket. All seem to be ignoring the real corruption.
 
All these fake allegations (such as the Russian collusion). All come to nothing. Meanwhile all the dodgy stuff that is actually going on gets hidden in plain sight.
Let's take the real example of the Hunters laptop. It was originally pushed as Russian disinformation. However the fbi were deep into an investigation and had a witness. They knew it was real. You all should remember the news articles and videos about it and the way it was pushed. People knowingly lied.
This helped changed the course of the election.
This was one of numerous examples. So why is it happening?
My guess is follow the money.
Trump is bad for business.



We see some of the same shifty sht starting to pop up here.
 
Just to follow on from the above.
Here's a clip where Biden openly admits to prostituting to the big donors for money (*involves context watch the vid).
It's refreshing to see someone openly discuss the influence of money and saddening to see them basically reveling in the act now.
Also how intelligent the conversation was compared to the rubbish that passes as an interview today.
From 1974.


Imagine what's happening today.
 
Going to be interesting to see how Trumps lawyers react to this conversation between Donald Trump an author and an assistant.

Trump admits military paper was classified in new clip obtained by CNN​

Ex-president is heard discussing a Pentagon paper detailing plans to attack Iran with people who did not have security clearances

Guardian staff and agencies
Tue 27 Jun 2023 12.15 AEST



A recording that was made at Donald Trump’s Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club in July 2021, has been obtained exclusively by CNN and provides new evidence that the former president knew of proper declassification procedures.

List of witnesses against Trump cannot be secret in documents case, judge rules
Read more

The recording, which first aired on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360, includes new details from the conversation that is a critical piece of evidence in special counsel Jack Smith’s indictment of Trump over the mishandling of classified information, including a moment when Trump seems to indicate he was holding a secret Pentagon document with plans to attack Iran, CNN reported.

The episode is one of two referenced in the indictment where prosecutors allege that Trump showed classified information to others who did not have security clearances, CNN reported.

In the conversation, Trump is talking with people helping his former chief of staff Mark Meadows write a book. His aide, Margo Martin, regularly taped conversations with authors to ensure they accurately recounted his remarks.

According to the recording aired on CNN, Trump refers to the document and that its classified status.

“These are the papers,” Trump says in the audio recording, while he’s discussing the Pentagon attack plans, a quote that was not included in the indictment.

“This was done by the military and given to me,” Trump continues, before noting that the document remained classified. “See as president I could have declassified it,” he says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”

Trump heard on CNN tape discussing military secrets at golf club

Ex-president is heard discussing a Pentagon paper detailing plans to attack Iran with people who did not have security clearances
www.theguardian.com
 
I came across this story this morning that analyzed the unadulterated criminality of the Trump Covid loan schemes to business. The writer (an accountant ) checked out the vast sums that were swindled in his home town of Ketchikan Alaska.(pop 8000).

IMV well worth a read in full (these are only short screen grabs) if only to reflect on how a monumental grifter like Donald Trump can thoroughly corrupt an entire administration and cost his country trillions of dollars. Very interesting detail on how very small local businesses cleaned up big time under the Trump crony led Paycheck Protection Program.

It seems that there will be accountability for these scams - if sufficient resources and a fair Government allow it.



http://www.sitnews.us/0223Viewpoints/020623_dave_hanger.html
 
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