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Do you have solar panels?

The best thing about solar panels is the electricity companies have to pay the owners of the panels more than the going rate for wholesale electricity

I'm very sure that to the extent that there's money to be made in electricity it sure isn't in generation. Networks account for most of what consumers pay, retail is rather profitable too in many cases, but there's not a lot of money in the generation side these days.

Consumers get upset that they're paid 5 - 6 cents / kWh for solar fed into the grid. Suffice to say that large scale generators would be pretty happy with that price if they could get it.

Broadly speaking, the large scale generators are staying in business by:

*Running old plants that cost very little to operate but which wouldn't be economic to replace. They'll exit the industry when the plant wears out. Hazelwood is the best known plant in that category but it's certainly not the only one (just the best known).

*Make most of their money in retail rather than generation. Having their own generation is simply a means of avoiding wholesale price risk but isn't overly profitable as such. Any of the big retailers with their own generation.

*Have a generation business that's coupled with their gas business and works to optimise the two and collectively it's profitable through various tricks. They can drive a much harder bargain for their gas when they've got the alternative option of just using it themselves for power generation.

*Are profitable only due to the renewable aspect of their output than from the electricity per se. Hydro Tas is the most obvious one there but certainly not the only one in that situation.

*Are running what amounts to a financial trading operation with the physical production of electricity being just a means of enabling the trading. Snowy Hydro comes to mind there.

*Are losing money most of the time, being profitable only due to the occasional price spike. Plenty in that category.

*Aren't actually profitable at all but are still in the generation business for reasons of avoiding plant closure and cleanup costs, a hope that others will close first and send prices up so as to make their own operation viable, being locked into fuel supply contracts or for reasons of risk management in their retail business.

In Tas, Hydro gets 22.7% of the retail price of electricity to households. Networks get 59.6% and the rest is retail and other things. It's fairly similar in most parts of the country. Poles and wires bring in a lot more $ than turbines and alternators.
 

Thank you for a most detailed reply, really appreciated. I like the idea of that Immersun unit and yep, I know it'll be a mine field out there when the time comes. Bit hard to navigate as things, no doubt, will change down the track.

FWIW, my little 1.5kW system churned out over 9kW the other day when I remembered to check. Might not seem like much but I've only had to shell out $23.00 in the last six months for electricity. Guess that's one of the benefits of being an empty nest widower and living in the sunny outback.

Looking at the cost of larger systems I may add to my little solar array as costs have come down.

Cheers again.
 

A Plan to consider:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TFXrpyxNuQ
 
After procrastinating and doing on-off research for 3 years I finally had a 6+ Kw system installed yesterday in Perth. 2 story home with steep roof pitch. All Austrian or German products and used a smaller installer I had heard of through satisfied friends.
I don't know what this would have cost when the now-cancelled 47 c rebate was in, but this set us back $6175.
Our last power bill helped with this decision
 
Good move. Having had a 6+KW system on my roof for nearly 5 years and a smaller system prior to that, I can vouch that solar is great (especially on a nice feed in tariff) It is very consistent over the years. You may have seen the chart where you can look up your nearest city, then azimuth and roof angle and after considering any shading get within a percent or 2 of what you are going to harvest. I hope you bought a SMA inverter.
You can also log performance for free if you could be bothered

https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=12896&sid=10826
 

I outlaid $5000 some 2 years ago and get $80 to $90 rebate every 3 months......The best scenario being $360 per year.......It is a dead loss a as far as I am concerned.
 
I outlaid $5000 some 2 years ago and get $80 to $90 rebate every 3 months......The best scenario being $360 per year.......It is a dead loss a as far as I am concerned.
Is that off your power bill, or your power bill costs plus $80-$90 on top?
 
Is that off your power bill, or your power bill costs plus $80-$90 on top?

As I stated it is the rebate off my power bill......Ergon Energy pay 7.44 cents kwh into the grid...They started at 9 cents per kwh and the slowly reduced it without notice.

They charge 24.6 kwh for uncontrolled power and 19.96 kwh for controlled power to hot Water and Air con units.

We don't have a choice up here.....Take it or leave it.
 
Strangely enough this Smurf jumped at the opportunity to put a power station on the roof back in 2009.

Cost me a grand total of absolutely nothing. Got the $8K government grant, plus $800 worth of REC's, and the electricity distributor kindly threw in the meter changeover for free as well. So not a bad deal really, even posting the forms back was reply paid and the phone call was a 1800 number too. Bargain!

My thinking back then was actually that I was doing something rather unique. First house in the area with solar and I honestly didn't think it would become anywhere near as popular as it has. The only people really interested back then were electricians, engineers and other technical type people - and suffice to say I did get quite a few knocks on the door from random strangers who saw the panels and asked if I'd tell them about it and how it worked. Go forward a few years and solar panels are pretty much everywhere now.

Added some more panels later at my own cost for everything. Got 33 of them in total including the original 6. Working nicely and in 2013 I decided to add data recording so I've got daily production data for the past 3.5 years now.

As an investment it's not the single most profitable thing I've ever done but it hasn't been too bad overall.

One aspect I like is risk mitigation. I'm on the high rate FIT until the end of 2018 after which it drops to the standard rate which isn't much (but for the record, large scale power stations are getting even less per kWh and aren't anywhere near as profitable as you might expect so don't complain too much about what solar owners get - most of your power bill goes to the networks not generation, of that I am extremely sure).

But, and I see this is as a definite plus, in the event that something bad were to happen to me then most likely I'd be home more often during the day. Unemployment, disability, whatever. And if I'm home more often then I'll be using more power when the sun is shining such that the financial benefit of having the system increases in a situation where I'd need it most. I like that aspect being there but hopefully won't have reason to benefit from it.

For my other low energy stuff, well the heat pump water heater is now 7.25 years old and despite the predictions of many has been flawless thus far. It's in profit now so I won't have lost even if it did die tomorrow. With a bit of luck though it'll keep working for a while yet.
 
Not SMA but Fronius Symo - both very good. Panels are Solar World Bifacial [glass either side].. Generating beautifully.
 
I outlaid $5000 some 2 years ago and get $80 to $90 rebate every 3 months......The best scenario being $360 per year.......It is a dead loss a as far as I am concerned.
That's odd... What size system and where are you located?
 
I got a 3.2kw system installed a couple of months ago and got the meter upgraded at the same time. I spent a little more and went for Jinko panels and a Fronius inverter. Total cost was about $5,000.

The key seems to be to use as much power as possible during the day, so we run the dishwasher and washing machine during daylight hours and try to only use minimal power during the evening. Using this approach we have managed to reduce our power consumption to about 4 or 5kwh a day. I switched from AGL to Powershop and for fun I am trying to see how little I can actually pay for power. On a good day the system will generate about 15 to 20kwh, with excess being exported back to the grid. Based on my current usage I should be down to about a dollar a day or perhaps a little more if there are a lot of overcast days. There are only two of us in the house but I estimate at this rate we'll save a couple of hundred dollars each quarter on average which will mean the system will be paid back in about five or six years.

If it wasn't for the daily supply charge of about $1, we'd be doing a lot better out of it.
 
Yes pretty much pointless otherwise.

Except for those who are on a good Feed In Tariff, in which case the opposite is true. I get 47 cents or thereabouts, so I have gone to a Smart Meter and push most of my power needs to nighttime which is about 50% of the normal rate.
 

That's what the brochure said

The power our system generated equal or surpass our usage during Summer. So even if service fees and stuff are included, we'd only be paying about $3 a quarter for power.

But AGL is pretty clever and so charges us some 27c while our feed in goes to them for 7c.

Last bill was some $500 a quarter, after rebating us our $29.
 
Before ordering our first solar panels in 2009, I did the sums; had to make some vague assumptions because, at the time, not much solid evidence was available. So I simply discounted the figures in the prospectus and worked on 4.5kWh per average day with rising power costs. The cost for a 1kW system came to a little over $3,500, so I arrived at an estimated return on investment of 7-8 years, and every year past that would save a some $400+ off power bills.
I didn't even figure the rebate for excess power sold into the grid. Without FIT, it doesn't make sense to sell for 7 or 8c only to buy it back for 27c when the sun don't shine.

Once the 40c FIT was introduced a year later, the calculation changed dramatically. Every exported unit would net us 47c, buying it back later cost a bit over half of that. That made an upgrade financially attractive, even though the installer charged the same amount for the 2nd lot as he had done for the first, which included the inverter. (Apparently, the initial installation had benefited from a Government subsidy, whereas the upgrade had to be paid in full.)
Now it makes of course sense to use as little power as possible during the day and export as much as possible. In a 2-person household, there isn't much scope though. In summer, the air conditioner is needed when it's hot. As we also have solar hot water, it doesn't matter when we do the dishes or take a shower, and the light bulbs have long been replaced by LED lamps.

After 7 years, and regular record keeping of production rates and consumption charges, I am happy to say that my initial assumption was pretty close to the mark. We're just about at break-even point, and the remaining 3 1/2 years of the FIT contract will add ample interest to the ROI - something I had decided to ignore in my initial estimate.
 
Except for those who are on a good Feed In Tariff, in which case the opposite is true. I get 47 cents or thereabouts, so I have gone to a Smart Meter and push most of my power needs to nighttime which is about 50% of the normal rate.
Yes true of course but no longer available in WA. I think, here, this better scheme had a 10 year expiry. I think this has a way to go. Even small systems do well out of this atm.
The other side of the coin is that system prices have decreased significantly.
 


Pretty cr.ap return. I was thinking of installing solar but might wait it out.
 
Pretty cr.ap return. I was thinking of installing solar but might wait it out.
"cr.ap return only if you over-capitalise, trying to make money from power generation. If you configure your installation to meet your daily consumption, you save the full 27c or whatever your GST-inclusive cost per unit.
 
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