Dispute Between Real Estate Agents - HELP!!!

[Smurf1976]

Any advice in relation to the following would be greatly appreciated. Scroll down to the bottom if you want to get to the point without the detail.

I can not name the specific property address or the agents involved for legal reasons as will be apparent.

Two weeks ago today (September 22) I attended an open home as a potential buyer of the property.

The following Monday (23rd) I was contacted by the agent (I left contact details at the open) and I agreed to a further inspection of the property the next day.

The next day I inspected the property and decided to make an offer (in writing) below full asking price. The agent suggested that my offer was unlikely to be accepted but agreed that it was a serious offer nonetheless and would take it to the vendor.

The vendor rejected the offer and the agent notified me around 6pm that night.

During my inspection of the property that day the agent made a number of statements, some of which I believe to be untrue.

Specifically they said:

That a nearby property had just sold for full asking price (not true - it is still for sale now).

That another property I was comparing with was not larger than the one I was interested in purchasing (the land area is in fact quoted as being around 20% larger which is confirmed via looking on Whereis / Google Earth).

That the vendor would withdraw the property from the market if not sold very soon and would instead use it as a rental property (they have since listed with an additional two agents - all of them to sell rather than let it).

These statements plus the fact that the agent had readily volunteered information that the vendors would presumably not want made public (eg that they had already bought elsewhere) plus the reality of the property having not sold in the roughly 3 months it had been listed (most others in the area selling far more quickly) lead me to doubt the abilities of the agent.

...

On the evening of Wednesday 3rd of October I noticed that the same property was now listed with another agent (hereafter "agent 2").

Being aware that the property was empty and that the vendors had already bought elsewhere I assumed this to be an indication that the vendors were now more eager to sell than previously. As I was now in a position to make a moderately higher offer than that made previously I thought that it was worth another attempt at purchasing it.

I contacted agent 2 on Thursday morning and arranged to meet at the property. I inspected the property again and made an offer (in writing). Agent 2 suggested that my offer was at the lower limit of what the vendors might accept but stated that she would take it to them that evening.

Agent 2 also informed me that there was another agent (agent 3) who also had the property listed and they were holding an open home on Saturday. She said the contract period with agent 1 had now expired.

The vendor considered the offer for some time but rejected it that evening.

During the course of Friday agent 2 contacted me and the vendor a number of times during the course of negotiation. By 4pm that day I had an offer in writing which she suggested the vendors would seriously consider.

Today agent 2 contacted me again and a minor change to the offer (same price, different settlement date) was agreed to. Both the vendor and myself now agreed on price and settlement date. Deal done? NO!

This is the problem...

Agent 1 has demanded that they receive commission from the sale and that the vendor must pay two commissions. Following some argument between agents, they have offered to pay 20% of the commission to agent 2.

I have had no dealings with agent 3. They are not involved at this point.

It has rapidly escalated and in a matter of a few hours and the directors of both agents have become personally involved (agent 1 is a large company, agent 2 much smaller) and the dispute seems to have become quite bitter.

The vendor obviously doesn't want to pay two commissions. I want to buy the property and don't want the vendor to walk away thinking it is all to hard and deciding to look for another buyer instead.

What, if anything, can/should I do now?

 

[robots]

hello,

go smurf, top stuff

I would not get too involved in the politics surrounding the 2 agents

also wouldnt get too involved in what agents are telling you about the property, you need to make up own mind as to what you want to pay and hope vendor accepts

generally you know accepted when agents wants you to sign contract

if you have a signed contract (by you and vendor) then you are home, it will be up to the first RE if they want to pursue the vendor for any monies, nothing to do with you

auctions have become a more transparent way of selling property

thankyou

robots

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Any advice in relation to the following would be greatly appreciated. Scroll down to the bottom if you want to get to the point without the detail.

I can not name the specific property address or the agents involved for legal reasons as will be apparent.

Two weeks ago today (September 22) I attended an open home as a potential buyer of the property.

The following Monday (23rd) I was contacted by the agent (I left contact details at the open) and I agreed to a further inspection of the property the next day.

The next day I inspected the property and decided to make an offer (in writing) below full asking price. The agent suggested that my offer was unlikely to be accepted but agreed that it was a serious offer nonetheless and would take it to the vendor.

The vendor rejected the offer and the agent notified me around 6pm that night.

During my inspection of the property that day the agent made a number of statements, some of which I believe to be untrue.

Specifically they said:

That a nearby property had just sold for full asking price (not true - it is still for sale now).

That another property I was comparing with was not larger than the one I was interested in purchasing (the land area is in fact quoted as being around 20% larger which is confirmed via looking on Whereis / Google Earth).

That the vendor would withdraw the property from the market if not sold very soon and would instead use it as a rental property (they have since listed with an additional two agents - all of them to sell rather than let it).

These statements plus the fact that the agent had readily volunteered information that the vendors would presumably not want made public (eg that they had already bought elsewhere) plus the reality of the property having not sold in the roughly 3 months it had been listed (most others in the area selling far more quickly) lead me to doubt the abilities of the agent.

...

On the evening of Wednesday 3rd of October I noticed that the same property was now listed with another agent (hereafter "agent 2").

Being aware that the property was empty and that the vendors had already bought elsewhere I assumed this to be an indication that the vendors were now more eager to sell than previously. As I was now in a position to make a moderately higher offer than that made previously I thought that it was worth another attempt at purchasing it.

I contacted agent 2 on Thursday morning and arranged to meet at the property. I inspected the property again and made an offer (in writing). Agent 2 suggested that my offer was at the lower limit of what the vendors might accept but stated that she would take it to them that evening.

Agent 2 also informed me that there was another agent (agent 3) who also had the property listed and they were holding an open home on Saturday. She said the contract period with agent 1 had now expired.

The vendor considered the offer for some time but rejected it that evening.

During the course of Friday agent 2 contacted me and the vendor a number of times during the course of negotiation. By 4pm that day I had an offer in writing which she suggested the vendors would seriously consider.

Today agent 2 contacted me again and a minor change to the offer (same price, different settlement date) was agreed to. Both the vendor and myself now agreed on price and settlement date. Deal done? NO!

This is the problem...

Agent 1 has demanded that they receive commission from the sale and that the vendor must pay two commissions. Following some argument between agents, they have offered to pay 20% of the commission to agent 2.

I have had no dealings with agent 3. They are not involved at this point.

It has rapidly escalated and in a matter of a few hours and the directors of both agents have become personally involved (agent 1 is a large company, agent 2 much smaller) and the dispute seems to have become quite bitter.

The vendor obviously doesn't want to pay two commissions. I want to buy the property and don't want the vendor to walk away thinking it is all to hard and deciding to look for another buyer instead.

What, if anything, can/should I do now?

Smurph,

Contact the Real Estate Institute and the Department of Fair Trading.

 

[wayneL]

Smurph,

Contact the Real Estate Institute and the Department of Fair Trading.

Agree, don't let agent vexatiousness spoil the deal.

I've seen this before, don't let it get out of hand.

 

[2020hindsight]

geez, smurf
these parasites that live on commissions are a worry aren't they.
let em take each other to court maybe?

 

[Stan 101]

Hi smurf. It should be an open and shut case.

On a contract with an agent you have the option to over sole rights to the agent or shared for a set period of time.

The only issue may be if the vendor has signed two exclusive deals with the agents. Then, from memory the form (24B?) states the vendor must pay two commissions..REIQ or other relevant state body's web page will clear it up for you..

Get a signature on the contract from both you and the vendor and let the other parties fight it out. It has nothing to do with you..They can't stop the sale unless there are conditions. When does it go unconditional?




All the best with the home.

cheers,

 

[Smurf1976]

Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming...

A point of clarification. I have signed a contract but the vendor is yet to sign. The vendor will not sign untill they can be sure they don't have to pay two commissions. Therefore it's no deal until the mess is sorted out and the property is still on the market with at least 3 agents.

 

[Stan 101]

find out when the vendor's contracts end with all three agents.
On the day after offer the vendor the same deal minus commision they would have paid and get your solicitor to handle the sale. Win Win..

cheers,

 

[brerwallabi]

Its the vendors problem unless the contract you signed has a clause about your introduction to the property. Make sure that there is not a special condition that you are signing agreeing to the fact that you have not been introduced to the property by another agent.
Check it out as you could be then responsible for paying commission.
It is becoming very common.
You are dealing with contract law you could end up in the supreme court.

You do have a cooling off period.

Do not believe what the real estate agents tell you seek other advice.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming...

A point of clarification. I have signed a contract but the vendor is yet to sign. The vendor will not sign untill they can be sure they don't have to pay two commissions. Therefore it's no deal until the mess is sorted out and the property is still on the market with at least 3 agents.

More importantly what is your solicitor saying about it?

I used to work in the industry , not sales, and I must say some agent referral systems can get nasty, even in rentals.

Real Estate is one of the most regulated industries due to the fact that MONEY is held in trust.

Talk to your solicitor and if needed contact the Real Estate Institute to inform them of the problem.

This is not advice just an approach you could take.

Not all agents are bad, and most long time agents are COMMISSION paid only, so I am sure flippant remarks regarding commission are out of line. (not to you smurph)

Cheers......

 

[Stan 101]

Smurf, if there isn't a signature of the vendor on that contract, as you say is the case, it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Until their sig is on there.. It's simply a group of paper (what is the collective noun for a group of paper when it's less than a ream?) with your signature stating your intent to buy.




All the best with it though and keep us up to date.

cheers,

 

[Happy]

From what I know there is something in it if agent shows you property first.

Not sure if it is customary or it has been backed by some law, but being big and arrogant company, if they have the slightest right, they will happily pursue it.

Of course it can be bluff and as suggested in one of the posts above check with authorities.
And get answer in writing should you have to defend yourself if opinion was challenged.

Best would be to walk away from the deal, and get somebody else to do it for you.

Like your wife for example providing she wasn’t there with you at the time of inspection with agent 1.
Only problem is it will be in her name only.

Sorry to see such a fussy mess.

 

[robots]

hello,

spot on Stan 101

maybe keep in communication with "latest" agent you have signed contract with to find out what is happening

ignore any politics, keep it straight forward

maybe give a "walk away" day, as have a couple of others looking at

unfortunately its in the vendors hands

goodluck

thankyou

robots

 

[Whiskers]

find out when the vendor's contracts end with all three agents.
On the day after offer the vendor the same deal minus commision they would have paid and get your solicitor to handle the sale. Win Win..

cheers,

Yeah, this could spook the seller out of settling. If the real estate authority in your state (REIQ in Qld), cannot sort it out quickly, bearing in mind that not all agents belong to the state organisations, the fastest way to fix it from my experience, and I think this is what your solicitors might decide to eliminate any comeback to the seller, is for the seller to formally withdraw from all agents and sell privately. Definitely let your solicitors handle it to get it legally right.

 

[greggy]

Any advice in relation to the following would be greatly appreciated. Scroll down to the bottom if you want to get to the point without the detail.

I can not name the specific property address or the agents involved for legal reasons as will be apparent.

Two weeks ago today (September 22) I attended an open home as a potential buyer of the property.

The following Monday (23rd) I was contacted by the agent (I left contact details at the open) and I agreed to a further inspection of the property the next day.

The next day I inspected the property and decided to make an offer (in writing) below full asking price. The agent suggested that my offer was unlikely to be accepted but agreed that it was a serious offer nonetheless and would take it to the vendor.

The vendor rejected the offer and the agent notified me around 6pm that night.

During my inspection of the property that day the agent made a number of statements, some of which I believe to be untrue.

Specifically they said:

That a nearby property had just sold for full asking price (not true - it is still for sale now).

That another property I was comparing with was not larger than the one I was interested in purchasing (the land area is in fact quoted as being around 20% larger which is confirmed via looking on Whereis / Google Earth).

That the vendor would withdraw the property from the market if not sold very soon and would instead use it as a rental property (they have since listed with an additional two agents - all of them to sell rather than let it).

These statements plus the fact that the agent had readily volunteered information that the vendors would presumably not want made public (eg that they had already bought elsewhere) plus the reality of the property having not sold in the roughly 3 months it had been listed (most others in the area selling far more quickly) lead me to doubt the abilities of the agent.

...

On the evening of Wednesday 3rd of October I noticed that the same property was now listed with another agent (hereafter "agent 2").

Being aware that the property was empty and that the vendors had already bought elsewhere I assumed this to be an indication that the vendors were now more eager to sell than previously. As I was now in a position to make a moderately higher offer than that made previously I thought that it was worth another attempt at purchasing it.

I contacted agent 2 on Thursday morning and arranged to meet at the property. I inspected the property again and made an offer (in writing). Agent 2 suggested that my offer was at the lower limit of what the vendors might accept but stated that she would take it to them that evening.

Agent 2 also informed me that there was another agent (agent 3) who also had the property listed and they were holding an open home on Saturday. She said the contract period with agent 1 had now expired.

The vendor considered the offer for some time but rejected it that evening.

During the course of Friday agent 2 contacted me and the vendor a number of times during the course of negotiation. By 4pm that day I had an offer in writing which she suggested the vendors would seriously consider.

Today agent 2 contacted me again and a minor change to the offer (same price, different settlement date) was agreed to. Both the vendor and myself now agreed on price and settlement date. Deal done? NO!

This is the problem...

Agent 1 has demanded that they receive commission from the sale and that the vendor must pay two commissions. Following some argument between agents, they have offered to pay 20% of the commission to agent 2.

I have had no dealings with agent 3. They are not involved at this point.

It has rapidly escalated and in a matter of a few hours and the directors of both agents have become personally involved (agent 1 is a large company, agent 2 much smaller) and the dispute seems to have become quite bitter.

The vendor obviously doesn't want to pay two commissions. I want to buy the property and don't want the vendor to walk away thinking it is all to hard and deciding to look for another buyer instead.

What, if anything, can/should I do now?

Well one thing for sure. I've got a headache from reading your story. Real estate agents are often very greedy to say the least. I'm sincerely hope that everything works out for you. Maybe you need to contact consumer affairs to find out where you stand.

 

[Whiskers]

Hi Smurf

One more little technicality might help. I have used this before.

In the event that the vendor signs your offer contract, and it gets messy and say for example the large firm gets a restraining order preventing the settlement until they get their commission, you can potentially still recind the contract and do as I suggested earlier.

Provided you did not disclose that you were paying cash or have finance approved, generally a contract is subject to finance, so you can recind the contract by informing the agents that you have not been able to get finance. The wording is important, to properly recind the contract in the event that you go back and buy later. Again have your solicitor handle it now that it has got nasty.

 

[cuttlefish]

The vendor sounds like an idiot. The first real estate agent sounds like the usual lowlife you'd expect from the industry. And if you ever, ever believe anything any real estate agent tells you without verifying it yourself you've got rocks for brains. The lies and bs I've heard over the time I've dealt with property I wouldn't trust any of them, even the ones that have been long established with good reputations.

Do your own research and don't believe a word they say. I suspect you'd have been able to get this property for less, and might still be able to.

If the exclusive agency agreement with the first agent ended then the first agency is just trying it on. They also love to play all sorts of chest thumping games with hapless vendors (and buyers) to scare them into thinking they owe something they don't. They don't care one iota about the psychological affect all of this could have on the vendors. In particular elderly people get trampled and robbed all the time by this industry in the most despicable ways.

My parents have quite a few properties and I've also bought and sold a fair few properties over the past 10 years and out of those experiences I've developed very little respect for the people that operate in this industry.

 

[REA]

Smurf I don't know what state you reside in but in NSW the contract has a small clause which states that the purchaser " you " viewed the property with the name of the agent which is written on the first page of the contract. In the case of a new agent he would have had a new contract issued or picked up the contract from agent 1 and changed it to his name.

The vendors solicitor will advise him not to sign any contract until the agents work out the problem as he may be liable for two commissions. Maybe you should bite the bullet and go around and see the vendor and tell him that you really like the house and you hope we can work it out. I would not denegrate agent l. because the way I see it he has the law behind him and the vendor has really to tell agent 2 to accept a split commission. The vendor should not have changed in the middle of negotiation I hope it works out for you.

 

[REA]

Smurf On reading further the home is vacant so my advice is not relevant. The person who shows the property is entitled to commission in NSW and that rule may apply for a couple of months even without a relevant agency agreement. Try and get your solicitor to talk to the vendors solicitor and see if anything can be done.

 

[Smurf1976]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

Location is Tasmania so the relevant industry body here is the Real Estate Institute of Tas (REIT). I'll be in touch with them next week.

If the exclusive agency agreement with the first agent ended then the first agency is just trying it on. They also love to play all sorts of chest thumping games with hapless vendors (and buyers) to scare them into thinking they owe something they don't. They don't care one iota about the psychological affect all of this could have on the vendors. In particular elderly people get trampled and robbed all the time by this industry in the most despicable ways.

Reading cuttlefish's comment above I think this is what's going on. Agent 2 has told me that the exclusive contract period with agent 1 has expired. They still have it listed but it's now an open listing also with at least two other agents, including the one I am dealing with.

The contract I have signed is subject to finance and professional building inspection. Also has set dates by which each thing must be completed. So if the vendor doesn't sign pretty soon then it's a worthless piece of paper as the dates will lapse. Also, I haven't signed the alteration of the settlement date (that change being unrelated to the dispute) and won't sign it unless the mess is sorted out first.

From a legal perspective it's between the vendor and the agents. I'm really just an interested spectator in that sense.

But from a practical perspective though what I'm worried about is agent 1 finds another buyer. I'm guessing they'd be pretty damn keen to do so right now since that would secure their commission.

Worst case for the vendors (apart from ending up in court) I can see is that agent 1 finds another buyer who makes a lower offer than mine but they use the legal threat to force the vendor to accept it. That would leave the vendor, myself and agent 2 all rather unhappy. Everyone loses except agent 1 and some other buyer who gets a cheap house.

I'm keeping in touch with agent 2 for now since they are keeping me up to date with what's happening. Also they do seem reasonably honest, at least so far.

One thing that I think could be significant is that the property has been changed since I inspected it with agent 1. The change is only minor (different oven in the kitchen) but it is a change nonetheless which is clearly visible since the agent's photos all show the kitchen and it's very obviously a different oven (brown versus white). And the oven was specifically listed as being part of the sale both in my first offer and this one. I'm no legal expert but I would argue that I did not inspect the property exactly as it is now with agent 1. (Anyone have any comment on this? I suspect it might be a significant point?).

I also do know that there are some defects with the property which have not been formally disclosed to me. The contract is subject to a professional building inspection which gives me another way out if need be.