David Hicks protests

[2020hindsight]

Greggy, thought for the day ....
you could not even mention DH, you could tell em you are protesting for "Major Mike Mori" and "may his requests to Aus govt be heard pls" . Now there's a Major in the US Marines. ! surely they can't fault him!! - or you under those circumstances , ? (can they? - who nose these days?)

 

[greggy]

Greggy, thought for the day ....
you could not even mention DH, you could tell em you are protesting for "Major Mike Mori" and "may his requests to Aus govt be heard pls" . Now there's a Major in the US Marines. ! surely they can't fault him!! - or you under those circumstances , ? (can they? - who nose these days?)

Hi 2020 Hindsight,

By doing nothing, we will achieve nothing. As the groundswell grows the PM and others will begin to take notice.

 

[2020hindsight]

As the groundswell grows the PM .. will begin to take notice.

Yep - but nothing to do with ethics or keeping Aus values untainted.
Just when a blip shows up in the polls yes?
To be honest I can't understand - can't believe we've been so pathetically apathetic on this one. (why didnt we keep pace with the poms for goodness sake).
Johnny reacted pretty smartly after Port Arthur on the gunlaws? - I mean they can act when they see a vote I guess.

(what was that someone said , "is it ignorance? or is it apathy? - ahhh I dont know and I don't care!")

 

[Sean K]

I can't believe anyone is sticking up for this pathetic traitor. He should rot away in Guantanamo for another 20+. Lets not bring him back just to be a burdon on our taxpayers. Justice is being served.

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

hmmm, Yes Sir, Mr Major Kenna's and you would be speaking on youre knowledge of his guilt from.........?, and what exactly is he guilty of?, and does that warrant him being snatched from X taken to Y (a location with no legal juristriction) and being held untried for Z years.

 

[gupper]

I've read this thread with interest. While the principle of 'presumption of innocence pending trial' should prevail here in my opinion, I do find it rather strange that a fascist should become the poster boy for civil libertarians. Why do so many women defend the rights of a man who fought for a regime that offered women NO rights at all?

As a member of the Left myself, I also consider it ironic that Hicks' most strident defenders tend to be of the same persuasion. People should remember that Hicks volunteered to fight for a medieval-minded, fascist regime that summarily hanged its opponents from cranes in the town square but now that HE is on the receiving end, he is suddenly concerned about RIGHTS? The Taliban brutalised women and forcibly removed girls from schools and women from universities, banishing them behind burquas on pain of a flogging, rape or murder. Hicks ALLIED HIMSELF WITH THESE MONSTERS VOLUNTARILY.

I feel for Hicks' parents and admire their dogged dedication to his cause. I also support Hicks' right to be brought back to Australia to face trial and deplore the Federal government's neglect of an Australian citizen, but I'm hardly going to subscribe to the view that he was a 'harmless adventurer' or just a 'naughty boy'. Just as I wouldn't march on behalf of a Ku Klux Klan member or a Nazi, you won't catch me marching for David Hicks. His religious views and his misogynistic attitdues towards women have somehow dissipated any compassion I otherwise might have felt for his plight.

Gupper.

 

[Sean K]

hmmm, Yes Sir, Mr Major Kenna's and you would be speaking on youre knowledge of his guilt from.........?, and what exactly is he guilty of?, and does that warrant him being snatched from X taken to Y (a location with no legal juristriction) and being held untried for Z years.

I just have a hunch he's a bad boy FBW.

I think we've already gone through this another time didn't we? And I hope you were standing at attention as you addressed me then. Go on.

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

Gupper

Much of what you are saying goes on in Middle east countries, they have a different society to us. I used to be a diver on a Rig in Abu Dahbi and one day while returning to my hotel I saw a women stoned in the street by a mob (about 30 blokes and even some women), and I tried to help but was then turned on myself, I then ran

I have no idea what Hicks did, no one does, he has not had a trial or the opportunity to defend himself and this goes to the root of the issue.

I have had family relatives that fought in WW2 and believe that all that have fought for Aust and the freedoms we enjoy and are afforded to our society/citizens are special and sacred. Whatever David's wrong doings he should be afforded these freedoms and at the core of this is a speedy civilian trial (not military). THIS HASN'T HAPPENED! and shame on our Government!

 

[2020hindsight]

.. in Abu Dahbi and one day while returning to my hotel I saw a women stoned in the street by a mob (about 30 blokes and even some women), and I tried to help but was then turned on myself, I then ran

wowo ... freeball - do you think they took it to it's conclusion? - the stoning i mean ... sheesh ! For some reason I've been deluding myself that thay rarely actually do the stoning thing.

btw - this makes no difference to my opinion of hicks ( unless of course we want to queue up with the other "unjust countries - linch mob mentalities " that we are discussing here.

hey kennas - lets round up a posse and hang the bastud!

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

I'm not sure, Abu Dhabi (UAE) is a very modern example of an Arab City, and certainly the most westernized one I've been too. I would hate to hear what goes on in other countries!. I'm 34 and this incident happened in 1993, I was young and had just finished my HSE tickets in the U.K., it was my first job as as a saturation diver and even today, the incident is still vivid in my memory!.

Don't get me wrong, I remain open minded on David until he is tried. I am only voicing my opinion on the handling of his snatching, by our Government and the lack of backbone they have displayed ensuring he is afforded his rights as an Australian Citizen.
The timeframe of his incarceration and the government handling of the affair are shameful IMO.

 

[chops_a_must]

I've read this thread with interest. While the principle of 'presumption of innocence pending trial' should prevail here in my opinion, I do find it rather strange that a fascist should become the poster boy for civil libertarians. Why do so many women defend the rights of a man who fought for a regime that offered women NO rights at all?

As a member of the Left myself, I also consider it ironic that Hicks' most strident defenders tend to be of the same persuasion. People should remember that Hicks volunteered to fight for a medieval-minded, fascist regime that summarily hanged its opponents from cranes in the town square but now that HE is on the receiving end, he is suddenly concerned about RIGHTS? The Taliban brutalised women and forcibly removed girls from schools and women from universities, banishing them behind burquas on pain of a flogging, rape or murder. Hicks ALLIED HIMSELF WITH THESE MONSTERS VOLUNTARILY.

1) If we take this approach, how are we any better than the Taliban?

2) If you have watched enough ABC TV on the topic then you would know that he SURRENDERED as soon as he found out what had happened in the US.

 

[wayneL]

Freeball, Chops, et al,

:iagree:

 

[tarnor]

Clinton had monica.. bush has australia..

 

[Happy]

1) If we take this approach, how are we any better than the Taliban?

2) If you have watched enough ABC TV on the topic then you would know that he SURRENDERED as soon as he found out what had happened in the US.

If true, that he surrendered, one might wander that there could be something else to change his mind again, so possibly best for him and us if he is protected from being able to do it.

 

[chops_a_must]

If true, that he surrendered, one might wander that there could be something else to change his mind again, so possibly best for him and us if he is protected from being able to do it.

WTF?

Yeah, something like torture induced schizophrenia perhaps?

 

[Happy]

Lets not forget that he had the right to make the first choice too, that’s before he made another choice to surrender, and he did.

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

All we know is what were told, and I wouldn't consider any of the sources reliable!.
This could be a horror story once it comes out, who knows!

 

[chops_a_must]

Lets not forget that he had the right to make the first choice too, that’s before he made another choice to surrender, and he did.

Even SS and Death's Head officers were given access to the Red Cross.

 

[gupper]

Gupper

'Much of what you are saying goes on in Middle east countries, they have a different society to us.'

Just because something is different doesn't make it 'acceptable' or 'not our business'. Just as the British stood up for Poland in 1939 because Hitler represented a wider threat to humanity, so too should the democratic West take a stand against practices that are nothing short of barbaric. And to go in hard on behalf of someone with views as obnoxious as Hicks' seems a poor application of compassion in my view.

Of course Abu Graib and other such instances of Western barbarism show that cruelty is not the preserve of the Taliban. Clearly it is present within human nature rather than peculiar to any one ethnic or religious group. I would argue though, that a freer press and stronger mechanisms for redress of such wrongs exist within Western societies and also that assistance to reformist elements within repressive cultures should be strongly encouraged. Overall, therefore, I am not one of those who subscribes to cultural relativism which (unless I have misunderstood you) is what you offer by way of dismissal of my earlier argument. Surely there are certain inalienable human rights (like the right of women to education and the vote etc) that should be vigorously defended by Western societies. We in the West have the opportunity to apply pressure on behalf of those denied basic freedoms and should not feel constrained to do so on the grounds that 'they do things differently there'.

Overall, though, what bemuses me most about the Hicks' campaign is how some have become so morally indignant on his behalf when there was no comparable outpouring of pity - let alone a rally - on behalf of victims of the Taliban - whose reign of terror David Hicks volunteered to support.

Bring him back for a fair trial by all means but I'm a bit tired of the lionizing of this 'poor, wronged boy' by some sections within society.

 

[chops_a_must]

Overall, though, what bemuses me most about the Hicks' campaign is how some have become so morally indignant on his behalf when there was no comparable outpouring of pity - let alone a rally - on behalf of victims of the Taliban - whose reign of terror David Hicks volunteered to support.

Bring him back for a fair trial by all means but I'm a bit tired of the lionizing of this 'poor, wronged boy' by some sections within society.

I gave up a room for an Afghan refugee for a while, and am a supporter of Hicks.

Tosspot.