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David Hicks leaves prison today

2020 and Rederob
I simply said that I found the article quite interesting because, frankly, that's all it was to me. I wasn't promoting Faris's point of view or disputing it.
I read it, thought it might add something to the debate, posted it and forgot about it.

I agree with those who have suggested it's time to hopefully let him fade into obscurity, as has Mr Habib as far as I can tell.
I don't imagine any of us have ever met him, and are therefore not privy to his thoughts. My impression (and that's all it is) is that he was a not very bright young man, somewhat of a misfit, who was attracted to the idea of adventure in a foreign country. Perhaps his comprehension of the politics of the people he trained with was somewhat superficial. Or perhaps he really hated America, had no respect for Australia, and was quite clear about his intentions. I have no idea and doubt anyone on this forum has either.
Rederob, you say he was tortured, or at least imply it. How do you know this?

Whatever the case above, I absolutely do not support his detention without trial. He has been well and truly punished - if that was required - for his stupidity and that should be that. Over. Let's all move on.

I will, however, be interested in any book/film deals and how that is handled.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/28/2104231.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/20/2124083.htm

Summary:-
1. Dean Taylor to stand trial this year - currently on bail - (remember that Hicks was in solitary confinement with torture for 5 years ... whilst we were told he might do us some damage if he was freed ?)

2. Rocket launcher sale charges against Della Vedova dropped - but guilty of stealing .... we find out Della Vedova's sentence this month.

3. Both these blokes are entitled to justice - but so too was Hicks!

4. If Hicks got 5 years, how long do you reckon Della-Vedova should get?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/28/2104231.htm

IMO ...
a) people who complain about Hicks and Haneef - to the exclusion of cases like these stolen rockets - are just devouring what you are front-page-fed by the media, and
b) the media who plaster their front pages with hot "govt sponsored" topics (that sell), do not necessarily use proper perspective / weight etc.
c) as for the likes of ex foreign minister Downer (and his one eyed bias against Hicks - with virtually no comment about this other case) - sorry , but these days I feel nauseous when I see him on TV.
 
Lets not forget that he actually did nothing illegal in Afghanistan under Australian, US, Afghani or International law. The law under which the US charged Hicks was retrospectively applied (which in itself is interesting - why should an Australian in Afghanistan be subject to US law at all, retrospective or otherwise?). But before he was charged by a retrospective law he arguably shouldn't be subject to at all, he was held for years without charge, and most likely a victim of a variety of torture, in contravention of the Geneva convention despite Afghanistan, Australia, Cuba and the USA all being signatories to it.

What he did may have been stupid, dangerous, childish, irresponsible, offensive and may have ultimately led him to carrying out a terrorist act (who knows?) there's a good arguement that he's not guilty of anything.

Yet we can sit here behind our keyboards, in our airconditioned studies fresh from watching Fox News and label him a terrorist. *sigh*
 
Very well put Doc.

I absolutely agree there.

I just feel that after all that others have said about him, now that he is back in Aus the least we can do is let him have his say.

I don't have any problems with him selling his story. Heck many other 'convicted' criminals have sold their stories. Anyway, we are supporting him on the dole for now. If he sells his story for a significant sum he will be off the state payroll. That seems to be good enough reason for me.
 
Rederob, you say he was tortured, or at least imply it. How do you know this?
Julia
I don't recall saying or implying Hicks was tortured.
It is widely reported that methods at Guantanamo included "torture", although I guess it depends on how anyone wants to define it.
Then again I don't think Guantanamo was a guest house as suicide attempts probably run into the thousands (New York Times reported 350 in 2003 alone, and even the medical base acknowledges that during mass suicide attempts its 48 bed hospital was inadequate).

Changing tack slightly, many want Hicks to personally apologise (including Premier Rann).
Hicks has agreed to comply fully with his plea bargain agreement, which is onerous and far reaching, and prevents him making media statements until its expiry in early March.
Who knows what he will say. Or if he really wants to say anything at all.

I only hope that a Labor government never abandons its citizens and defends their rights to full and fair processes regardless of their alleged sins.
 
Julia,
1. He wanted to join our military. He was knocked back due to educational qualifications. Incidentally, as far as I know, you're the first to suggest he "has no respect for Australia"

2. see below
3. next post
back to the question of torture
2. This was discussed at length on the first Hicks thread .... great article (thanks happytown ) from NY Times 21March07

Now Hicks goes into (gruesome) detail right? - on many matters of torture-
including white plastic objects etc - might offend etc -
there are photos of said white objects being used at Abu Ghraib - articles on varius websites ...

sure, he subsequently had to sign a form saying that he denied most of these claims to get out of the place (well helloooo - maybe if you were being tortured, you might happily say anything ...

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=136867&highlight=plastic#post136867

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=136502&highlight=plastic#post136502
 
for point 3. Interesting that Ruddock claimed (early april last year when the sentence was handed down) that the US were not able to give Hicks such an instruction / gag order about contact with the press.

YET Hicks is honouring it anyways.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142264&highlight=ruddock#post142264

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200704/s1889044.htm
 

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lol - you read back through the old news articles - like this one (2 weeks before final sentence) where he was drugged for no reason at all !?!? - what strange strange practices they use these days in the USA legal system.

- home of the brave , land of the free and all that. - yeah right lol.
Maybe under other presidents - not under this latest chickenhawk administration.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1874963.htm
 
 
visual
no question some people who get in the army are "unsafe at any speed"
or in the case of the US - maybe leaning towards "unsafe on any speed?"

that goes for our police force as well -

I still think it goes a long way to proving his good intentions towards Australia. What a shame he wasn't accepted
 

But seeing that he was rejected and then joined a terorrist organisation rather than making himself suitable for the Australian army shows that he was completely unsuitable and the army got it right.
 
a great article by Bob Ellis ...
alludes to unfair treatment - but also great lateral thinking - his story would be good for all of us to know !

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2128442.htm


now by letting Hicks talk / write a book etc - we would all earn something - about the Taliban, about a heap of topics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer
 

So he wasn't a good student,for someone with so much desire to join the army in fact any group with guns, you'd think he'd do his utmost to join a legal outfit, but obviously intelligence isn't one of his strong suits. By the way seeing that he wasn't good at school and dropped out, does that mean we should expect more losers to want to join a terorrist group? I suppose they are the ones who would be attracted to that sort of thing, lets hope our defence lines all succeeded at school then.

By the way, what is it with you and changing subjects, can't you stay on topic when your argument gets shot down in flames?
 
chopper to give back the profits from his book
..... nice one lol - good luck !!
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2128442.htm


Visual - at this point , I have the option of reading and absorbing the wit of bob ellis again -
or reading your post again - and trying to work out where the heck your argument is going.
sorry - you lose out.

DAMN that's a brilliant article - should be compulsory reading !! - including at school lol
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2128442.htm

PS visual - I agree , Hicks wasn't a whiz kid.
refer poetry thread
"aged but one score years and six ,
down the road comes david hicks
some say he's as thick as bricks
but that's another matter ... " - ok?
 
I'd go further and say that it is imperative that he be allowed to write a book - and asap.

If that story is "lost" for any reason - perhaps him being killed by some lunatic - it would be a tragedy. (imo)
 

Now I'm confused, so what's your reference to him joining the Australian army and being or being seen as a good thing? Are you saying that if you fail to join the Australian army then it is alright to join a terorrist organisation? are the two equal?

Yep better stick with ellis I think,
 
And today he approaches a semblance of justice...

Gives hope to those who seek protection of Law; the wheels do turn slow.
 
And today he approaches a semblence of justice...

Gives hope to those who seek protection of Law; the wheels do turn slow.

And still the question remains.

What was he doing at an Al Qaeda training camp and why ?
 
And still the question remains.

What was he doing at an Al Qaeda training camp and why ?

What ever it was? It wasn't breaking the Law.
Which as it happens is your and my only redress against the power of the state.
 
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