Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin you care to respond to this?

I found this thread after already signing up for Daniel's course. It still seemed like a good idea to me, so I went ahead and did it. I don't have any personal experience to speak from yet (in terms of trading) - but I just went to Daniel's seminar on last weekend. Was it 4K? Yeah, it was. Is that a lot of money - yeah it is. Value for money? We'll see. It was definitely an informative and excellent introduction to trading to produce ongoing income.

Historically (looking back over their trades that you get access to if you do the course and pay $50 a month for the report) the hit ratio is something like 90-95% success. Of course - those that go down, are pretty big losses. Diversified, not as much a deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BquDGE9KxZQ as linked to was fascinating - and is a pretty good summary of the Tradeability Income seminar's strategy - but... you do get manuals, dvd's of the course, and guided trades found for you. All up - honestly - I'm very happy with the course and considering doing the other ones he offers. I might be more or less happy in 6 months :)

That said - there were a few people re-sitting the course that had blown up their accounts and every one of them said it was because they didn't play by the rules of the strategy - which sounds like a common refrain among traders in general from my limited experience. oh - I found it really interesting that one of the first posters said he blew up his account in Aug 2011, and Karen said that was the same month they took heavy losses that took a few months to pay back - which is exactly the warning Daniel gives at the seminar - that its small, incremental growth - save your wins for 6 months as a buffer. Of course, if Aug 2011 was your first month doing it - that's poor consolation.

The returns look good - When they produce the report they show the %ages of return, and they vary depending on the vix and the stock and the market. The only thing I didn't like is that the returns they pitch on are calculated on only the actively engaged capital, rather than all of the tied-up capital (50% for money management - same as Karen suggests) so it doesn't really reflect the opportunity cost for that capital. That said - returns in low months look like about 2.5%-5% (on ALL capital) per month. Which is in line with what Karen says she is getting.

So far, I'm happy. I'll post back with my actual trading experiences in a few months time. Mr Market might be kind, he might be nasty... who knows.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I too have purchased Daniel's 3 courses over the last 2 years but have settled on using just one, namely the Income Plus strategies selling Naked PUTs and Naked CALLs monthly. Over the last 18 years I have subscribed to countless Gurus from David Bowden (trading the SPI) to Aussie Rob (red and green lines). I paper traded Aussie Rob for 8 months and never felt comfortable enough to trade live and gave up on it plus my $10k cost. At some point, one gets the feel for a strategy that is genuine and workable and I found Daniel's Income plus to be it. I am now trading Daniel's strategies under my SMSF solely and in this new FY 2013 picked up a return of 6.48% for the 1st month. I have slightly tweaked the rules to diminish the risks and I am aiming for a 50% annual return on account balance. I believe this is achievable. Would love to have others in similar circumstances either post here or message me privately.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Gee the marketing department is in full swing now.

But as usual no confirmed results. All just Blah Blah.

We are all hero's on the internet. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I too make 1500% pa trading my own strategy. Who wants to buy it off me? :rolleyes:

Personally i think that anyone who has read this thread and then still decides to pay for Daniels course, almost deserves to lose their money. Which by all accounts they will, as i am yet to see ANY broker statements showing any of Daniels 'students' making a profit.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Just about every single one of these clowns selling covered call 'education/systems' claim circa 40% PA returns, or 4% per month or some such variation.

This begs the question - why don't professionals and funds quit ####ing around with sophisticated models, and just write covered calls for themselves and their clients?

Hey start with a paltry hundred grand of savings and be a billionaire.

$100,000.00
$140,000.00
$196,000.00
$274,400.00
$384,160.00
$537,824.00
$752,953.60
$1,054,135.04
$1,475,789.06
$2,066,104.68
$2,892,546.55
$4,049,565.17
$5,669,391.24
$7,937,147.73
$11,112,006.83
$15,556,809.56
$21,779,533.38
$30,491,346.73
$42,687,885.42
$59,763,039.59
$83,668,255.43
$117,135,557.60
$163,989,780.63
$229,585,692.89
$321,419,970.04
$449,987,958.06
$629,983,141.28
$881,976,397.79
$1,234,766,956.91

Prawn is right. Anyone who falls for this crap uncritically does deserve to lose their money.

It's cliche', but it's picking up pennies in front of the steam roller... easy money til the machine catches you one day.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

i am yet to see ANY broker statements showing any of Daniels 'students' making a profit.

*Making profits consistently over 2, 3, 5+ years* might I add.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Do I care to respond?

Maybe, but only after I have stopped laughing my ass off.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Sorry guys, I still haven't stopped laughing yet. You are just too funny for words.

BTW, after seeing this morning's quarterly results for Apple I went out all day celebrating with my friends (male and female). My covered calls on Apple are now so much in profit I'll collect one month's profit after only one week this coming Saturday. Just doing what Daniel's rules proscribe.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So if I read this correctly you have been in the trade around 1 week, so you would have bought aapl at around $425 and sold your calls 1-2 strikes out maybe $435 for around $10, so that's a capped profit of about $20, but it is up $24 at the moment, so you are actually worse off using a covered calls strategy, especially if it keeps running up tomorrow. Just a guess. Would be interested to see your actual numbers.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

And like I keep pointing out, these are high probability trades.

But high probability does not guarantee a profit at the end of the day/week/year/decade, as LTCM (and a multitude of others) found out.

Alvin Purple feigns laughter, but in fact any actual option professional has a giggle when these turkeys come along with their claims of easy money, because though losses are low probability, probability is only part of the equation. we have the little problem of mathematical expectancy, the sum of losses versus the sum of wins...

...oh, and losses do occur, no matter what mendacious shills like Alvin claim.

Stop losses?

Pffffft

Alvin has already illustrated earlier in this thread his complete lack of knowledge of Greeks and synthetic relationships, the basic tools options professionals use to quantify and manage positions and risk. In fact anyone who understands the probability curve in trading will realize that stop losses on these short option positions, though they MAY limit the magnitude of loss, actually increase their number....

Enter the expectancy equation again.

Now there is no reason this type of trading cannot be profitable, but there are certain realities that Kertcher and his shills are desperate to hide from course attendee prospects and also "graduates". That is, the true mathematics of this type of trading.

The ones that lose are told they "didn't follow the rules". Perhaps true, but highlights that management of these trades takes more knowledge and experience than what a 3 day crash course and MLM/Amway style psychological brainwashing (with accompanying silly grin and "we're going to be rich in no time" fantasies).

And speaking of amusement and having a big ol' belly laugh, I'd love to see Kertcher or any of his asinine shills have a debate on this topic with a bona fide option professional. Lets say someone like Larry McMillan..... or Charles Cottle. I'd pay to see that.

The underlying point they would make, in addition to the maths/Greeks etc is that its not how much you win, or how often you win, it's how much you lose when you lose.

Anyone around options longer than 10 seconds can construct trades with 80%... 90%... even 95% probability of being ultimately profitable, so what? So did LTCM and a million other suckers.

I do these often enough with a strategy I've described somewhere on this forum, the seasonal non-tendency trade. These have statistics, history and massive probability on their side, yet I still keep a stock of Digitalis on hand and a host of defensive strategies. Even then, sometimes they lose. That's trading.

Every experienced trader knows these things, yet these dog & pony show tricksters suck in the gullible with smoke and mirrors, asking folks to believe in the suspension of real world mathematics.

That's why Alvin is here folks, to muddy the waters, Guerrilla marketing, trying to mend the utter decimation to the credibility of his boss' program by the folks who have talked utter good sense here by warning of the downside to this type of trading.

Nice try Alvin, you've fought hard for your Meister (and probably your job). But it won't work mate, folks here actually have a brain.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yep, you've got it. Daniel is my Meister.

It is now about 1.00 am Saturday, July 27. The weekly options will expire at 6.00 am. If Apple ends up below $450.00, I'll collect about $17k. These are of course covered calls (just as my Meister advised) I bought the CFDs at $418.95 and sold the $450 calls when Apple was at $440.77 (it's called "delayed call writing", but you know that of course). Everybody and his dog knew that Apple was going to exceed expectations, that why the shares spiked up 5 % after I'd bought them. There was also a Guaranteed Stop Loss, but you know that too.

I am telling you all this while the trade is still in progress, no hindsight required.

I have to thank your guys for that, and also, of course, my Meister.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yep, you've got it. Daniel is my Meister.

It is now about 1.00 am Saturday, July 27. The weekly options will expire at 6.00 am. If Apple ends up below $450.00, I'll collect about $17k. These are of course covered calls (just as my Meister advised) I bought the CFDs at $418.95 and sold the $450 calls when Apple was at $440.77 (it's called "delayed call writing", but you know that of course). Everybody and his dog knew that Apple was going to exceed expectations, that why the shares spiked up 5 % after I'd bought them. There was also a Guaranteed Stop Loss, but you know that too.

I am telling you all this while the trade is still in progress, no hindsight required.

I have to thank your guys for that, and also, of course, my Meister.

Which CFD provider is it?
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Edit: Found it, turns out it was good old IG!

Nice trade Alvin, but what if Apple gapped the other way? Stacking up on leverage right before earning is just flipping a big coin...

GSLO's are a min 5% away for something like Apple. From experience, they also generally double the min %away before earnings, so it won't protect you from all but the most vicious moves. Don't really see what the trade was here.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin how about posting some results for a change, not type up a trade just as it's about to finish profitably.

If you and your dog knew for sure (because apparently everybody and their dog knew according to you) earnings were going to be exceeded then the least smart thing to do is to write a covered call. Why did you not just long the CFD or a negative vega uncapped profits options trade. Capping your profit when you knew it was going to gap up does not make sense to me. Hit me up if your dog needs a new loving home, I would love to know beforehand how future earnings going to turn up.

Post up your trades in the future, we will compare as I have one account dedicated to shorting premium. I will kick it off as I was in Apple for this week too:

2lw8594.jpg
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yep, you've got it. Daniel is my Meister.

It is now about 1.00 am Saturday, July 27. The weekly options will expire at 6.00 am. If Apple ends up below $450.00, I'll collect about $17k. These are of course covered calls (just as my Meister advised) I bought the CFDs at $418.95 and sold the $450 calls when Apple was at $440.77 (it's called "delayed call writing", but you know that of course). Everybody and his dog knew that Apple was going to exceed expectations, that why the shares spiked up 5 % after I'd bought them. There was also a Guaranteed Stop Loss, but you know that too.

I am telling you all this while the trade is still in progress, no hindsight required.

I have to thank your guys for that, and also, of course, my Meister.

Alvin sticks his fingers in his ears singing la la la la.

...and hasn't addressed a single point. One sparrow does not a summer make. LCTM raked in money for a long time and then blew itself up with a self detonated 100 megaton hydrogen bomb... to the tune of "told ya so" from a thousand educated traders.

The option pages of other trading forums are full of these wombats.

The real entertainment is when they do start doing a bunch of live trades, the market Gods always eventually show people exactly how this can go wrong... especially when the perp is a cocky smart@rse with no idea of option basics.

Skyquake gets it in a nutshell, AAPL could easily have gapped the other way resulting in a loss.

But I want to repeat my earlier point. There is nothing wrong with a loss, we all get losses. It is how they are handled in the greater scheme of things which determined profitability after 1000 trades.

The naive bluster from silly course graduates and Kertcher sock-puppets shows they are singularly unprepared for the realities of trading when they come along... like it did to LTCM, the purported "smartest guys in the room".

pffffffft
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So if I read this correctly you have been in the trade around 1 week, so you would have bought aapl at around $425 and sold your calls 1-2 strikes out maybe $435 for around $10, so that's a capped profit of about $20, but it is up $24 at the moment, so you are actually worse off using a covered calls strategy, especially if it keeps running up tomorrow. Just a guess. Would be interested to see your actual numbers.

No beachlife. I bought AAPL CFDs at $418.95 and delayed the writing of the calls for a short while with a GSL in place. When AAPL went to $440.77 I sold a corresponding number of $450 calls (expiring July 26) for $1.70. My downside risk was Zero and since AAPL closed below $450 at expiry, the options expired worthless and I collected all of the option premium as profit. Had AAPL ended up above $450, I would have been forced to sell my AAPL CFDs at a huge profit.

As I still have the CFDs, I am doing the same thing again this week. Last Saturday morning, when it became obvious that AAPL would not reach $450, I sold August 2 $450 calls for a $1.75 premium. Remember, I bought the CFDs at $418.95, the GSL is still in place at break-even point, my worst possible outcome is that I will break even, but most likely I will make another profit similar to this week's.

You will not see my broker's statement (after all, they can be doctored up and photoshopped). The best way to make you understand how all this works is to tell you about the trades as I am putting them on and then all of you can follow the progress by watching the market.

I know of no better way to prove a point than by telling you what I will be doing and then we can all sit back and watch the trade develop. And by the end of the week we all can see the outcome. Fair enough?
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yes, wayneL, Skyquake is right. AAPL could have easily spiked downwards, although most people could see that it was in an upward trend. Had AAPL crashed though, I had (and still have) a GSL in place. I would not have made a profit, but would have broken even.
 
Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

minwa - you gotta be kidding. Is that supposed to be a statement? All pinked out, doctored up and photoshopped.

No, I can do better than that. How about I tell you about my trades as I am putting them on (as I have just done in my reply to beachlife) and then we can all watch and see what develops by the end of the week.

(And please, no more of these so-called statements, all that PINK makes me dizzy.
 
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