Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

[Innocent]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin is clearly an employee, he wouldn't be so defensive and so quickly start calling people names if he wasn't.
I think he had better be warned that he could be fired for making fake posts if it ever came to light like this poor guy who surely must have known better! http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...r-negative-posts/story-e6frg6n6-1226650265846

Will this forum also expose him?

I was moved to comment because it was just too obvious. Who are mods? Do you have an official role on this website? Anyway Waynel sounds like he knows what he's talking about!

 

[RichieBoy]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Just found this thread about Daniel and Trading Pursuits (previously Platinum Pursuits) and thought I would offer my opinion as someone who has been using Daniel's strategy for almost 2 years...happily I may add

Also I read the first page and couldn't be bothered to read any further so apologies if I am repeating stuff previously said.

Daniel offers 3 courses Income, Income Plus and Master all of which are about the same sort of price (a few thousand each) and I have done all 3. I have also made back all of the costs of the courses and then some

I completed the first course and started trading with 10K in my account for a few months which was a great idea as I did make some mistakes and needed a bit of time to get completely comfortable with the strategy of writing Covered Calls and Naked Puts.

Then I was able to borrow more cash and traded for some more months to make enough money to pay for the next courses.

Following completing all 3 I settled on regularly trading just one of the Income Plus strategies which was writing Naked Puts and Naked Calls only. I ditched the covered calls as the returns are a lot lower than naked options (but of course it carries more risk....which I was comfortable with at that point as I had been trading naked puts for quite a while by that point).

So all in all I was trading with around 50K in my account, utilizing higher percentage than recommended (about 70%), making on average about 1.5 to 2K per month.

You do not need to buy the MarketAnalyst software as TP's site offers a calculator, or just create a spreadsheet yourself the calcs are pretty easy (that's what I did).

You do need to pay the monthly fee for the report as this is the main useful feature of TP, the strategies are simple to grasp but findings the trades that tend to be profitable is the key, $50 per month...bargin in my opinion.

Guess that's about it, I'm going to continue using the strategy as I think it's great, I would recommend the course to others if you do have a balance of say over 20K to trade with. Yep the course is expensive and it's pretty scary to part with that sort of cash if you've never done that before but sometimes you have to take a chance!!!

 

[sinner]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So all in all I was trading with around 50K in my account, utilizing higher percentage than recommended (about 70%), making on average about 1.5 to 2K per month.

RichieBoy, thanks for your review as a client. When you say you're utilising 70%, would you mind clarifying what you mean? Can you let us know what kind of markets you invest in (just ASX stocks or anything optionable?) and what kind of drawdowns you associate with a losing month?

 

[RichieBoy]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

RichieBoy, thanks for your review as a client. When you say you're utilising 70%, would you mind clarifying what you mean? Can you let us know what kind of markets you invest in (just ASX stocks or anything optionable?) and what kind of drawdowns you associate with a losing month?

Sure, by 70% I mean that I invest about 70% of my 50K balance (about 35K) - this is not what TP recommend in the current market conditions for this strategy, they say about 20-40%, I am taking on more risk. The trades are all based on the US markets and it is selling options on large companies (this is why the original poster said you need to have a large starting balance as you can be looking to sell options for stock prices ranging from say $30 to $700 - like Google for example). This is also why the timings can be a bit of a pain as you ideally want to be trading at market open and close US (so for my timezone that can mean 11pm or 1am).

As for drawdowns, that can be large in a month depending on what happens to the market when the options are nearing expiry. You do get some months when you are down and I have had month's where I have been down 2-3K (but they are rare and average out OK over time). However this is an important point you raise as IMHO you have to expect to have some of these months and be OK with having that sort of loss for a month or 2 before making profits again. Trading has risk and although TP advise on what to do, in reality each of us may do slightly different things, follow advice or not, hold on a bit longer or try to hedge ourselves?

I'm not saying that this is a fantastic sure fire thing, I just felt that there were a lot of negative opinions in posts from people that may not have actually tried it out (which is perfectly fine and valid), I just wanted to share my experience. Personally I want to interact with other traders that have had good experiences with using different strategies so that we can try those out. This one is working well for me, so I thought I'd share

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Richiboy

It's not the strategy folks are negative about, The strategy is what it is, with risks, rewards and probabilities.

It is the marketing, via a vis inaccurate representations of risk, reward and probability that annoys folks.

FWIW

 

[sinner]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Sure, by 70% I mean that I invest about 70% of my 50K balance (about 35K)

I am still not sure what this means exactly in the context of naked selling premiums?

What I am trying to figure out is if the positions you are selling are cash secured or not?

 

[minwa]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I am still not sure what this means exactly in the context of naked selling premiums?

What I am trying to figure out is if the positions you are selling are cash secured or not?

They do not seem to be cash secured, reason being he said covered call gives lower return than naked premium writing, if he were to cash secure it would be very similar returns to covered calls. 70% of margin of total account is what I think he bases it on. 30% probably for margin fluctuation cushion and maybe addon trades.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So, RichieBoy is making an annual return of about 42 % according to his own statement and I have no reason to doubt that.

He states that he is using 70 % of his capital (which is much higher than recommended) and that he is now hardly using covered calls but mainly the much riskier naked calls and puts. He has been doing this for two years and acknowledges that he has learnt this technique from Daniel Kertcher.

Obviously, RichieBoy is happy with the result and I am sure he does not think that Daniel is a scam.

I, on the other hand, have been using this method for 3 years and am mainly using the much safer covered calls technique, with only the occasional naked put or call, but only with way-out-of-money strikes provided the premiums are still reasonably high.

Doing this month after month I have achieved an average return of 30 % p.a. (somewhat less than RichieBoy) and in the process have had my course costs of $3200.00 returned to me 100-fold.

Now why is it that one poster can claim a return of 42 % p.a. and nobody bats an eyelid, but another poster who uses a similar, but much safer technique, and claims a 30 %p.a. return gets attacked left right and centre?

Go figure.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I am still yet to see any actual proof in the form of broker statements. Until then, it's all just online talk which means nothing

 

[sails]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I am still yet to see any actual proof in the form of broker statements. Until then, it's all just online talk which means nothing

+100

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Prawn-86, sails and the rest of you:

There are 14 pages to this thread and dozens and dozens of posts, but I have not seen one broker's statement yet. So I made some enquiries and guess what I found? It is actually against the rules to publish a broker's statement because it could be construed as an incentive to invest. And that is definitely against the rules. I am surprised that your moderators and administrators don't know that.

In any case, this thread is not about me, it is about Daniel Kertcher. None of you have been able to prove that he is a scam. And the few people that have actually taken his course and follow the rules (more or less) all report positive results.

The last time I checked the ASIC list of scams (yesterday), which is quite a comprehensive list, I could not find Daniel's name or Trading Pursuits or Platinum Pursuits on that list. ASIC may be underfunded and overworked but since Daniel has educated tens of thousands of people over the years you would think that a fair number would have lodged complaints with ASIC if they thought they had been scammed. But: Nothing, Nada, Zilch.

No, I am not an employee of Daniel's, just a very happy customer whose life has been turned around in a big way.
By studying his methods and following the rules I have built a small capital base into a substantial capital base and with an average return of 30 % p.a. over the last three years I now enjoy a nice and steady income of $10k+ per month for doing very little work. This leaves me plenty of time to pursue my other interests and, being Alvin Purple, you all know what my interests are.

Whether any of you believe my 30 % p.a. returns or not does not make one Iota of difference to me. My friends (both male and female) know that those returns are a fact and that's all that matters to me.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

There are 14 pages to this thread and dozens and dozens of posts, but I have not seen one broker's statement yet. So I made some enquiries and guess what I found? It is actually against the rules to publish a broker's statement because it could be construed as an incentive to invest. And that is definitely against the rules. I am surprised that your moderators and administrators don't know that.

It's not against ASF rules. And it seems very convenient that such a great 'system' wont allow you to prove how great it is.

Buyer beware...

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

The strategy is still a synthetic naked put, all tarted up like a pox doctors clerk, but that's what it is.

The strategy is what it is, with risks, rewards and probabilities.

If I was going to use this strategy, i.e. naked put, I would just use the natural (and sometimes I do).

It's not the strategy, it's the misrepresentation of those risks, rewards and probabilities that are olfactorily offensive. (and to save you googling that Alvin, it means "it stinks").

 

[doctorj]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

It is actually against the rules to publish a broker's statement because it could be construed as an incentive to invest. And that is definitely against the rules. I am surprised that your moderators and administrators don't know that.

I'm not sure I agree. I could understand why Daniel, the Company and those associated with it, couldn't share broker statements in isolatation and without abiding by the requirements of their AFSL. However, you're not associated with the Company (and therefore not bound by the AFSL), you're also not giving financial advice (as broker statements are by definition backward looking and inherently useless) and you're not receiving any commission or other incentive to promote Daniel's service so you're not acting as an agent on his behalf. So in short, I can't see any reason why you couldn't share your broker statements.

Unfortunately, all this evasiveness and lack of transparency only serves to further bring into question the image of this company, rather than promote or defend it as you seem to be hoping to do.

 

[ftw129]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Unfortunately, all this evasiveness and lack of transparency only serves to further bring into question the image of this company, rather than promote or defend it as you seem to be hoping to do.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm always willing to give everyone a fair go but over 10 years with no proof from anyone about their success is really testing my patience....

 

[saroq]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Couldn't agree more.

I'm always willing to give everyone a fair go but over 10 years with no proof from anyone about their success is really testing my patience....

Agree as well. The Platinum Pursuits pundits should put up or ... well you know how that ends.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Evasiveness? Lack of transparency?

WTF are you talking about?

Some months ago I was giving you a running commentary on my trades as I was putting them on. All of those trades turned out to be profitable. I told you about that lovely way-out-of-the-money Apple call with that huge premium that I found on my broker's call list and which doubled my profit for that month. I told you that INTEL was on the move and this prediction also turned out to be correct.

Do any of you ever do any profitable trading at all?

All you seem to do is desperately trying to find a way to denigrate Daniel and somehow try to prove that he is a scam.

Well, you have failed.

I know quite a few traders who did the course with me three and a half years ago, as well as some who have done the course recently. Not one of them had any complaints about the way the course was conducted or that Daniel did not deliver what he promised. And all of those who kept following the rules and did not get seduced into using riskier methods, are making money from their trading.

By the way, July expiry is this Saturday and all the covered call trades are currently running in profit and it looks like July will be another profitable month with a return of about 2.5 % ROI.

 

[stockGURU]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin,

Those of us who have spent a lot of time on internet forums have seen your type many times before in countless other threads. You magically appear from nowhere claiming that you just found this thread or a friend told you about it and that you feel compelled to defend whatever product or service is being criticised. You never stick around to post in any other threads to demonstrate your trading genius or make any attempt to become a genuine member of whatever online community you are targeting. You are here to do a very specific job and have no interest in participating beyond that. You are, in effect, a visiting testimonial from Daniel's website, and there is nothing genuine about you or your presence here. You make a lot of claims but back none of them up. In your time here, you have responded to exactly none of the well articulated criticisms of Daniel's courses. Instead, you simply continue to make unverifiable claims and sling mud at others in an attempt to deflect attention away from the fact that you are a shill:

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed). Shills are often employed by professional marketing campaigns. "Plant" and "stooge" more commonly refer to any person who is secretly in league with another person or organization while pretending to be neutral or actually a part of the organization he is planted in, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization (see double agent).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Nobody who is a regular here at ASF is taken in by your act and I sincerely hope that nobody who comes across this thread in the future is taken in by it. I hope they see it for what it is, a very transparent attempt to mitigate any damage this thread is doing to Daniel's business by making claims to profitability that you have repeatedly refused to verify.

As I said, we have seen it all before, and will see it again in other threads in the future. Your shtick is old and tired, and now it is getting boring. Predictably, your attempt to turn this thread around has backfired. Your empty claims to profitability impress nobody, and all you can do here now is repeat yourself endlessly, which will only serve to damage your cause further.

 

[saroq]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

For anyone still considering purchasing Daniel Kertcher’s options course, even after reading Matteo’s comprehensive post, please check out these links that have been provided by contributors to this forum.

http://www.jenman.com.au/news_item.php?id=153

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-f...bjectid=228205

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...jectid=3551109

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1048152.htm

Well said stock guru but please allow me to repeat myself. For anyone considering Daniel Kertcher's course please read the information in the links above to help you in your research before making your decision.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I'm not sure I agree. I could understand why Daniel, the Company and those associated with it, couldn't share broker statements in isolatation and without abiding by the requirements of their AFSL. However, you're not associated with the Company (and therefore not bound by the AFSL), you're also not giving financial advice (as broker statements are by definition backward looking and inherently useless) and you're not receiving any commission or other incentive to promote Daniel's service so you're not acting as an agent on his behalf. So in short, I can't see any reason why you couldn't share your broker statements.

Unfortunately, all this evasiveness and lack of transparency only serves to further bring into question the image of this company, rather than promote or defend it as you seem to be hoping to do.

Alvin you care to respond to this?