Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Commercial Securities?

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SPOT1 said:
Hi All, my experience so far....

I was offered the $5800 package + minimum $1000 betting account and the promise to pay the remainder ($3000) or not pay this if the account had not made at least a $10,000 profit in 6 months.

I was contacted about this last year and dismissed it as it sounded to good to be true, I then was contacted again last week so decided to do a little internet research and found this forum thread. I then decided to discuss the concerns I have about the legitimacy of the programme with the salesperson who contacted me and have recieved similar comments posted on this forum.

I also mentioned to the person on the phone about this thread and what others were suggesting and was told they were aware of this and that the people who were posting about negative experiences with the scheme were ex ... disgruntled employees.....

I have stipulated that the only way I would even consider this would be to receive the bets to be placed for the day at the start of the day and would monitor this over a week. This was no problem for them and recieved 1 of the two horses to be followed for tomorrow and will recieve the 2nd tomorrow morning... and I will update on how this goes, will be interesting.

Not saying either way that this is or isn’t a scam but thought I would add my experience to help others and will continue to do so over the next few days.
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Hi SPOT1,

Wouldn't the fact that an employee of commercial securities showed up trying to pose as a satisfied customer say quite a bit about the way that these guys run their business?

IMO that would be more than enough information to make a decision about this company.

Also, having been involved in trading futures and options for a little while now, monitoring the picks these guys deliver over the course of a week isn't anywhere near enough of a sample size to make an informed decision either way. Would you also outlay thousands of dollars for a stock picking strategy based on a week's worth of data? Seems a little pointless to do this IMHO:2twocents

You would be much better off getting a hold of a few year's worth of results that have been independently audited to make a more informed decision.
 
professor_frink said:
Hi SPOT1,

Wouldn't the fact that an employee of commercial securities showed up trying to pose as a satisfied customer say quite a bit about the way that these guys run their business?

IMO that would be more than enough information to make a decision about this company.

Also, having been involved in trading futures and options for a little while now, monitoring the picks these guys deliver over the course of a week isn't anywhere near enough of a sample size to make an informed decision either way. Would you also outlay thousands of dollars for a stock picking strategy based on a week's worth of data? Seems a little pointless to do this IMHO:2twocents

You would be much better off getting a hold of a few year's worth of results that have been independently audited to make a more informed decision.
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Thanks for the reply, to be honest I agree with the thread and the comments posted by the majority of people on here, what I am trying to do is to provide maximum information for other people in the future. My goal was to post the recommendations I receive for the next few days so they can be audited by the others if they chose.

I also agree that the facts point to this being a bad investment. Posing as a customer when posting, the inconsistent stories I have heard on the phone and have read on this forum about the methods used to pick the horses.

If I added weight to the positive in this argument it was not my intention, merely trying to add my perspective for others to learn from.
Trading commodities and stock index's is why I usually monitor the ASF so I agree entirely about the necessity of back testing a system to prove it's merit, hindsight can become foresight.

With this system the reliability of the data is in question so cannot think of any way to achieve this, having a weeks’ worth of data is not enough I agree but at least something to look at in the future when they publish the month to month profit/loss statements to see if they at least match what was given.

I think though my intentions have been confused and happy to just step out of this and leave as is and hope people use this forum as valuable information. The 2 replies that I had previously received that have since been removed from the forum have been less than encouraging.
 
Well Spot1 I'd be interested to hear of your onward experiences, and say Ni! to the people that had a go at you... I didn't really see anything positive at all in what you said so I can't see what they were going on about.

Obviously I'm not going to invest, but the fact that the company seems to think this thread is a group therapy session for their ex-employees is a bit pathetic really.
 
SPOT1 said:
Thanks for the reply, to be honest I agree with the thread and the comments posted by the majority of people on here.......
I also agree that the facts point to this being a bad investment.
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Bad as it is :2twocents, it's not an investment. Betting on a horse is gambling.

If you agree with comments posted by the overwhelming majority of people in this thread and inparticular professor_frink (below), then why do you consider it worthy of further analysis ?

That does not strike me as being particularly smart.

professor_frink said:
Wouldn't the fact that an employee of commercial securities showed up trying to pose as a satisfied customer say quite a bit about the way that these guys run their business?

IMO that would be more than enough information to make a decision about this company.
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Has anyone successfully been able to cancel and get a full refund from commercial securities if so how did you do it also do you think I should find some legal advice on canceling the contract and see just where I stand and what I can do to walk away from this mess
 
Another One1 said:
Has anyone heard of Commercial Securities? They are trying to sell me a program which they say profits 50k per year on betting on horses!!!
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Please Please Please DO NOT buy into this scam!!! I have wasted $10,000 because I was sucked in by it! These people use various methods to persuade you dont get sucked in like me!
 
When I was first approached by these people I searched the web for forum etc. but there was nothing. I foolishly fell prey to the promises, the salesman was very persuasive. For example I was told by a salesman that the Victorian bush fire victims were investing in this so that they could rebuild their lives. He said he loved his job because he was selling something that was benefiting average Australians. I was also told about Kerry Packer. I was so gullible, please don't waste your hard earnt money like I have!
 
Wow I don't know how these people sleep at night, running around acting in such an immoral fashion.

The worst thing is that reporting them to the NSW Fair Trade office just gets you a referral to a website on avoiding gambling investments. Would be nice if they pulled their finger out and scared the Commercial Securities bunch a little bit.
 
Sonni and NickB are you both seeing the same as other people on the forum where they are constantly loosing money or just the money has vanished entirely. Also have you tried withdrawing the money to what result (assuming the money is still there)? Just interested in what you have found on this for the others on the forum to benefit from ?

NickB I also think that you have no recourse on the "Membership Fee" you have paid as the contracts states

I understand once this agreement has been signed my allocated membership cannot be refunded or cancelled.
Also it states that the follow in terms of the other money that they are still using to place bets...(this is extracted from the Terms and Conditions of the contract they sent me)

2. You control all account funds through the use of a personalized numbered account
6. All funds in your trading account are available to you at all times via the phone or internet

Also as promised I did receive the horses that were picked for both Wednesday and Thurdsay, 6 runners were selected and so far only 1 has won, that was an odds on favourite. So regardless even if it was legit it doesn't look like they are very good at it anyway!

Also Just Looking I agree. Having dealt with various government departments in the past something needs to be done as they are not very effective.
 
SPOT1 said:
Sonni and NickB are you both seeing the same as other people on the forum where they are constantly loosing money or just the money has vanished entirely. Also have you tried withdrawing the money to what result (assuming the money is still there)? Just interested in what you have found on this for the others on the forum to benefit from ?

NickB I also think that you have no recourse on the "Membership Fee" you have paid as the contracts states

I understand once this agreement has been signed my allocated membership cannot be refunded or cancelled.
Also it states that the follow in terms of the other money that they are still using to place bets...(this is extracted from the Terms and Conditions of the contract they sent me)

2. You control all account funds through the use of a personalized numbered account
6. All funds in your trading account are available to you at all times via the phone or internet

Also as promised I did receive the horses that were picked for both Wednesday and Thurdsay, 6 runners were selected and so far only 1 has won, that was an odds on favourite. So regardless even if it was legit it doesn't look like they are very good at it anyway!

Also Just Looking I agree. Having dealt with various government departments in the past something needs to be done as they are not very effective.
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I signed up at the beginning of this year and each month has seen a loss. I started with $1000 in my account and it is now down to approx. $300. We rang alarmed at the loss in February and we were told that in the past this was always a bad time but we would definantly see our money doubled in the next few months and of course we are still loosing money. I haven't tried to withdraw the money because I was hoping that I may get some back, wishful thinking I know! I have also been reluctant to withdraw it because when that money is withdrawn the licence I paid $8800 for is worthless, which of course it is now! Whenever I ring to speak to someone I can't get past the young receptionist who always asks for my name, she then goes to check if he is available and when she comes back I am given a variety of excuses as to why Warren Dunn or Customer Service is unavailable some of these are meetings, on a phone call, lunch........:confused:
 
SPOT1 said:
2. You control all account funds through the use of a personalized numbered account
6. All funds in your trading account are available to you at all times via the phone or internet
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Anyone who has funds left in an account should withdraw it immediately. :2twocents

If "by internet" fails, then by phone. Don't take no for an answer. First in, best dressed I would suggest.

I don't have the time to contribute further to this, so from this point forward I am going to have to leave any further fools to the sharks. There's a wealth of information in this thread for any reasonable person to draw a conclusion on Commercial Securities and on the appropriate phone etiquette in relation to handling enquiries from them.
 
I signed up at the beginning of this year and each month has seen a loss. I started with $1000 in my account and it is now down to approx. $300. We rang alarmed at the loss in February and we were told that in the past this was always a bad time but we would definantly see our money doubled in the next few months and of course we are still loosing money. I haven't tried to withdraw the money because I was hoping that I may get some back, wishful thinking I know! I have also been reluctant to withdraw it because when that money is withdrawn the licence I paid $8800 for is worthless, which of course it is now! Whenever I ring to speak to someone I can't get past the young receptionist who always asks for my name, she then goes to check if he is available and when she comes back I am given a variety of excuses as to why Warren Dunn or Customer Service is unavailable some of these are meetings, on a phone call, lunch........
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My experience is exactly the same as Sonnie!....started with $1000 in Over The Odds account and now have around $300 left! the very licence that I was assured would grow my $1000 to around $60000 a year has dwindled my money to $300, rendering the $8800 dollar licence (3 years) useless unless I top up my account! Customer service are never available (at home, at lunch, on a call) when I did get hold of them they indicated my issue was with the legal department!
:banghead:
Yes I was naive...but there must be something that can be done....?
 
Anybody looking to claim their money are advised to print their over the odds statements and print commercial securities advertising statements and compare. As commercial securities bet on the same horses for every client there statements should be identical, if they are not than this is fraud which is a police matter. I will be getting legal advice. I hope everyone else who has been ripped off joins me in making these people pay.
 
Just wondering how Spot1 ( I think it is ) is recieving this amazing information on the horses that are running the day before etc. Wonderful of them. When I asked they said they make the final decision with only minutes to the jump so it would be impossible to give me that information in advance. The program and assessements of the variables such as weather etc make it all too hard to let me know. So how come you have been given such great treatment?
 
PVK said:
Just wondering how Spot1 ( I think it is ) is recieving this amazing information on the horses that are running the day before etc. Wonderful of them. When I asked they said they make the final decision with only minutes to the jump so it would be impossible to give me that information in advance. The program and assessements of the variables such as weather etc make it all too hard to let me know. So how come you have been given such great treatment?
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Hi PVK,
I simply asked for it.
When I received a call from someone at Commercial Securities I said I was very concerned this was not legit and even told them about this forum.
I then said the only way I would further take this seriously was to get the picks in advance (he could only give me them in the morning of the days racing) I too got the story that the "final decision with only minutes to the jump etc" but insisted based on the other conversations that they must have a short list and even if they decided not to back a horse at last minute the short list would do.
I was expected to get these for 1 week and did recieve them for 2 days only. Of these horses 1 won out of 6 and I havent had any communication from them since. I can only assume they monitor this forum and have decided not to continue communication with me.
 
Hi,

Has anyone thought of joining a class action against these people? In my contract they stipulate that bets will be placed in increments of 5% only, they seem to be placing bet of various percentages ranging from 0.5% to 6%, so surely that's got to be a breach of contract.
 
I am another that has been ripped off to the tune of 10k. Surely we can sue the director and let authorities know, but I think it will take alot of us to band together for anything to be done. We probably need to do this before Commercial Securities shut up shop and change name. The director has been posted in this forum as:

ZOEI CHARISSA , KEONG
Address: 8 SUNDOWN DRIVE
PARADISE POINT
QLD 4216
Born: 07 Jul 1983 - TOOWOOMBA , QLD
Appointed Date: 09 Jun 2009

Anyone interested email me
 
jbm said:
I am another that has been ripped off to the tune of 10k. Surely we can sue the director and let authorities know, but I think it will take alot of us to band together for anything to be done. We probably need to do this before Commercial Securities shut up shop and change name. The director has been posted in this forum as:

ZOEI CHARISSA , KEONG
Address: 8 SUNDOWN DRIVE
PARADISE POINT
QLD 4216
Born: 07 Jul 1983 - TOOWOOMBA , QLD
Appointed Date: 09 Jun 2009

Anyone interested email me
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If it makes you feel any better putting a name to a face, looks like this is the one you're after (assuming there aren't too many Zoei Keongs on the Gold Coast):

http://www.newsphotos.com.au/ImageDetail.asp?RefNum=88011423

Wonder if she has any idea what she is involved in and the pain it's caused...:confused:

Like I said, how do these people sleep at night? Good luck with the fight, another piece of ammunition could be that they are publishing false results on their website (seeing as they're claiming to have made a profit in 2010 but it sounds like losses are all people have experienced).

Try calling the Fair trade commission or ASIC. Emailing did no good for me but talking to someone might get you somewhere.
 
:D
drsmith said:
Yes. These parasites take advantage of people's natural instinct to gamble.

On the subject of cold-calling in general, it should be illegal where there's no ongoing business relationship between the two parties.

That would stop a lot of this crap.
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This exercise has been good for me,I now know what cold calling is, -iwas suprised how little information I could find out about this co. Normally I am very short with these type of calls,I seemed to be woo-ed by this female voice(being male)possibly taking the option of the lesser amount $5800 for my licence,they are so helpfull-also at first not making it clear that I also need at least $1000 for them to bet with.As far as I can see,they cant loose.How can they guarantee a $10000 or more, profit in 6 months.Before I bumped the cash into their account I thought I would run it by a good friend,and when i was explaining to him,it sounded like a joke,guess I don,t have the same woo-ing powers on him,but when I heard myself it really did sound unbelievable.Thank you drsmith for being frank about it ,don,t engage in conversation with them,you may take the bait,waste your good time and waste a lot of money.So glad I found this forum and people like me.
 
Has anyone else been having trouble trying to get advice or get someone to help try and work out a way to get out of these contracts and get a refund of your money I can't get anyone to give me the right advice and when I ring commercial securities they say the legal department have to call you back and guess what they never do all I want to do is get out and get my money back from them as there system that they promise you makes all this money doesn't and why isn't that enough to be able to get out when they say that you will make 50k a year then can't even make a $1 profit per month surely someone out there can work out a way to be able to get us out of this mess
 
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