Commercial Securities?

[poverty]

Awesome thread, the stupidity of anyone 'investing' in this is just incredible. As for anyone getting their money back, do you really think they are even placing actual bets? Surely they realise by now their system (if it even exists) is not a winner.

Much better they don't even place a single bet and simply just pocket your 'gambling account' along with the rest of it. Then just post up selected results that will show how it was slowly whittled away!

One thing for sure I bet these guys will make much better use of the money than the fools who gave it to them. Perhaps they'll look into some shares or ETFs LOL.

 

[just looking]

One thing for sure I bet these guys will make much better use of the money than the fools who gave it to them. Perhaps they'll look into some shares or ETFs LOL.

Wow what a nice guy. I guess you must've never made a mistake in your life then, kudos to you Mr Infallible.

As the saying goes "If you don't have anything nice (constructive etc) to say....."

 

[zanne40]

Wow! This scam is bigger than I thought. I don't feel so alone now. I don't usually get caught by scams, but here I am, $18,800 out of pocket. The concept seemed quite plausable, but they couldn't win a chook raffle. I often wonder if they aren't connected to the bookie they use. Just trickle the money away, so as not to be too blatant.
I guess now I'll just put it down to life experience. Just rang the bookie to put a block on whats left, so I can give it to the grandkids. $1800 out of $18,800. Everyones made money except me.

 

[Woogle]

If they have told you that you will make alot of money and their success rate is backing winners is a lot higher than it actually is this would be a misleading and deceptive conduct. that is a breach of the trade practices act. Directors of companies are personally liable for these breaches also. Everyone who invested should report this to the ACCC, the more complaints the better, then the ACCC will take it seriously. Also, get a good lawyer.

 

[just looking]

If they have told you that you will make alot of money and their success rate is backing winners is a lot higher than it actually is this would be a misleading and deceptive conduct. that is a breach of the trade practices act. Directors of companies are personally liable for these breaches also. Everyone who invested should report this to the ACCC, the more complaints the better, then the ACCC will take it seriously. Also, get a good lawyer.

Exactly. They are publishing monthly results on their webpage that appear to be a complete lie if any of the experiences posted here are anything to go by.
Surely that is illegal, and can be used to take them to court. Stop looking at these forums and present your case to a lawyer or call the ACCC, Fair Trading Commission etc. Shouldn't cost anything to just talk to a lawyer at least and see where you might stand.

Believe it or not, even Today Tonight or A Current Affair might be worth talking to, I know you can just email the networks with your story and they'll follow it up with you. Seems like something right up their alley.

I feel really sorry for these people that have been conned... I can't imagine what I would do if we lost that amount of money.

It would be useful if anyone that does make any enquiries to lawyers etc posted the results of their efforts here, to guide others.

 

[zanne40]

Just in addition to my earlier post.
I rang "Over the Odds", the bookie and put a block on my account.
Now they can't access it to bet.
Not much left, but don't want them to get thier grubby hands on it.

I also sent links to their web page and also this forum, to "A Current Affair"
Hopefully, they will find a story in it and warn off others.
Don't think Commercial Securities, will welcome any publicity.
THIS SCAM NEEDS TO BE PUBLICISED.

 

[Woogle]

did you notice Michael featherstone is an ex director? do a google search on him. not just australia. there is a scam.com thread on him and crikey did a story on him being shonky. apaprently he is an ex cop and was put before the carter enquiry. they only looked at cops with history of causing trouble through fraud. we shoudl all go to ACCC with our stories they will definitely look into it.

 

[just looking]

Probably worth sending the story to Today Tonight as well, I think A Current Affair likes to think they're a more 'highbrow' show, while Today Tonight will chase anything up, or at least make initial enquiries with you.

Following that, they themselves might even go to the ACCC and have a bit more luck than you guys.

 

[drsmith]

Hi PVK,
I can only assume they monitor this forum and have decided not to continue communication with me.

That being the case it puts you in a much more fortunate position than many others who have had contact from Commercial Securities.

When I received a call from someone at Commercial Securities I said I was very concerned this was not legit and even told them about this forum.

They allready knew about the forum.

I would still like to know why you considered it worthy of consideration given the underlying stench.

Just in addition to my earlier post.
I rang "Over the Odds", the bookie and put a block on my account.
Now they can't access it to bet.
Not much left, but don't want them to get thier grubby hands on it.

Having done that you should withdraw it. It's not safe until it's back in your bank account.

I also sent links to their web page and also this forum, to "A Current Affair"
Hopefully, they will find a story in it and warn off others.
Don't think Commercial Securities, will welcome any publicity.
THIS SCAM NEEDS TO BE PUBLICISED.

Victims of this should write to their local minister and include general discontent on the practice of cold calling.

The sooner it is banned, the better.

 

[SPOT1]

That being the case it puts you in a much more fortunate position than many others who have had contact from Commercial Securities.

Yes it does, I have not had a single call back from them

They allready knew about the forum.

I would still like to know why you considered it worthy of consideration given the underlying stench.

Because the entire time I was wanting to get as much information for everyone else to use now and in the future, my comments on the forum were guarded due to the fact that I assumed they were monitoring this forum. Never at any time did I disagree with you DrSmith, just trying to extract as much useful information as possible for the benefits of others.

The sooner it is banned, the better.

Agreed !!!!!

 

[drsmith]

Because the entire time I was wanting to get as much information for everyone else to use now and in the future, my comments on the forum were guarded due to the fact that I assumed they were monitoring this forum.

No need to be guarded. It's a free country. It was known they were monitoring the thread from page 1.

The necessary information to pass judgement was allready in the thread. Analysis of specifics therefore not required as you have found.

Never at any time did I disagree with you DrSmith, just trying to extract as much useful information as possible for the benefits of others.

In that case I'll assume you practiced your "hanging up technique" in case they rang back again.

 

[just looking]

Well well well well well....

This is quite an interesting page worth looking at:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/27/2610216.htm

It seems that the ABC has been looking into this scam. And in fact, the scam is under investigation, or an identical one is.

Some snippets:

"Recently I received a call from a Brisbane-based company claiming past returns of between 26 and 95 per cent a month on its horse racing scheme.

I cannot name it, because it may be one of the organisations currently under investigation, but I was only too happy to hear their spiel so I could share it with ABC News Online readers.

In return for having this company manage a gambling account using their computer system, I was asked for an $8,800 dollar sign-up fee, and between $1,000 and $10,000 in capital to start the gambling account.

In their sales pitch, the company claimed its software system was developed by a former employee of Kerry Packer, who their salesman said used to help Mr Packer with his horse racing picks...." etc etc

Down the bottom there is an email address of the reporter investigating, and he is keen to talk to people about their experience.

 

[Facts]

Commercial Securities and Gateway Technologies are the same entity. There was a name change in October 2009 but all else the same except for change of Managing Director (see below). Most lower level sales employees use an alias and they are are not fully aware of the company's operations. Commercial Securities operates on "silos" of information and does its best to restrict communications between the various stakeholders e.g. employees are not allowed to take up a "licence" for spurious, if plausible reasons, otherwise they would know the real results. Clients are losing 30 of capital per month, not making $5000 a month on a pool investment of $10,000.

Gateway Technologies has over 50 complaints listed with ACCC . It previously sold betting software on CD before moving to selling betting services.

Commercial Securities does not trade in listed or unlisted securities: the company name is misleading however regulation of the company does not come under ASIC's jurisdiction - although it allowed the company to trade under this misleading company name.

Commercial Securities method of operation is to publish historical Australian Group A horse-racing results which are contrived to indicate a return of around $60,000 p.a. This theoretically brings returns under the tax threshold (around $70,000) and avoids review by the Tax Office. This threshold is used as a ploy by the company to explain why it provides its betting information to outside parties.

Actual bets are on different horses to those belatedly published. The historical results are provided by Commercial Securities as an example of what could occur had they bet on those horses. It is a subtle but significant difference, and not a distinction drawn by the sales staff, most of whom do not realise there is a difference. The company leads sales staff to believe what they pass on to their prospects is actual results: this is not so.

Cost of the betting service is $8,800 inc. GST (plus 10% of earnings after the first $10,000 returned) for two years service; and clients are solicited over the phone from lists provided by Dunn and Bradstreet and others (e.g. new mobile phone numbers): and Commercial Securities especially target tradespeople and others who may deal in "black money". This is because these people are not likely to report a loss or complain about fraudulent activity.

Payment by credit card is encouraged however only for the $8.800 so-called "trading licence" as many credit card companies (eg AMEX, CitiBank) will not deal with gambling companies for fear of claims of unconscionable conduct. This legislation is strong in the USA following their "no/low-docs" mortgage debacle, and it will become stronger in Australia. The Bill has been debated.

The two year "licence" is invoiced by Commercial Securities as "management services" or as "business software" so that the $8,800 can be claimed by those with an ABN as a tax deduction. Clients are encouraged to place a further $10,000 of funds into the "trading account" with the bookmaker, Over The Odds (part of EzyBet) and these funds are accessed by Commercial Securities for gambling purposes. Clients are asked to deposit this amount
($1,000 to $10,000) on-line by direct deposit to avoid problems with the credit card companies.

According to ASIC, Commercial Securities is based in Queensland (Brisbane telemarketing office) Level 21, 300 Queen Street, Brisbane, and director is Zoei Charissa,, Keong of 8 Sundown Drive, Paradise Point, Qld 4216, born: 07 Jul 1983 - Toowoomba,Qld: Appointed Date: 09 Jun 2009. The company has no "trading rooms"in any State and may have moved office since this this address was posted.

The company's Sydney address (Crows Nest) is listed as its head office but this is a "virtual office" run by a serviced office provider called "Silent Partner". There is no personal representation by Commercial Securities in Sydney and this office is essentially used for receipt/transfer of mail.

The company also had a telemarketing office in Melbourne until May 2010 and it still has a presence (see below). The Melbourne office was at unit 3/426 Burwood Highway, Wantirna South, VIC 3152 Phone (03) 9008 6932.

Melbourne manager, Quinten Hann, who has an investment in the company, in mid-May 2010 moved office to Unit 505 in the Knox Centre (tower), Professional Office Suite, Level 5/425 Burwood Highway, Cnr. Stud Road and Burwood Highway, and his company name is Queenbury Pty Ltd. It is on the ASIC National Names index.

Mr Hann also runs another business (dog breeding - French mastiff, also called "dogue de Bordeaux") from 29 One Tree Hill Road, Ferny Creek, Victoria, It can be viewed on Google maps (satellite) large residence with pool, substantial grounds, on southern slope: and he is also a property developer in the Dandenongs region (Vic.).

Mr Hann's mobile phone number is available on-line from his dog trading activities: it is 0419666 147.

Further public information on the infamous Quinten Hann type his full name into Google, Wikipaedia, or You Tube.

Hann's unrefuted published history includes unusually aggressive and threatening behaviour, match-fixing exposed by the media in England, an 8 year-ban from playing professional snooker for bringing the sport into disrepute, and sexual assault charges. He is also closely connected with the shadowey Principals of Commercial Securities.

If you wish to make complaints against Commercial Securities contact the ACCC not ASIC. This is because Commercial Securities offers a gambling product and not an investment product so the company does not come under ASIC's jurisdiction. You may also effectively complain to the the Consumer Affairs/Office of Fair Trading regulator in your State.

As of I July 2010, ASIC will undertake class actions against organisations such as Commercial Securities on your behalf. Register with the ACCC to take advantage of this service.

And if you were invited to contact an "independent referee", often called by the alias "Marie", then this person was a paid "stooge". This is blatant fraud and should be reported to the police in your State.

To encourage prospects to purchase a "trading licence" sales staff have also been encouraged to offer shares in the company in the future. They do not have an IPO (see Wikipaedia for definition) and so should not be making these offers. Sales staff have also been encouraged to ask prospects to take out loans or use credit card funds to fund this gambling activity. This can be construed as unconscionable conduct, an illegal activity.

Hope the above info. is useful to the "burnt". However Commercial Securities will probably disappear to soon re-appear elsewhere. The Principals operate by setting-up people like Hann and Keong to take the "fall". Maybe one-day we will have regulators who will trace the source and extinguish it.

But things are improving - as of July, ACCC will undertake class actions!

 

[Nickb]

I have just recently reported them to the accc which told me to speak with the department of fair trading which is what my lawyer also told me to because I am trying to find ways inwhich to get my money back and the amount is under $10000 so anything else is more expensive than what is to be recovered now the department of fair trading rang today and said they had spoken with commercial securities and they are not going to budge or make a deal or do anything so now that want me to take my case to the consumer, trader and tenancy tribunal the only thing is I don't think I can go there and win I think I am going to give up obviosly they have been at this alot longer and have there bases covered to the point that we only have bits and pieces to work with if anyone thinks I might be able to win I am interested in you opinon but this is it they have won and I am just going to have to give and to everyone else remember stay away from these people they are bad news from the second they ring you

 

[Facts]

Two minor corrections to immediate previous Facts post.

First paragraph last sentence should read 30% not 30.

In paragraph 12, Hann's Victoria office address is Suite 504, not 505 as stated.

Also:

Employees/ex-employees

We believe Commercial Securities are currently under a "full investigation" by Fair Work Australia (FWA) and the company is doing their best to avoid an audit/investigation.

Employees and ex-employees, all of whom are, or have been working on "sham" contracts as "sub-contractors" (these contracts are/were imposed by Commercial Securities), can contact Fair Work Australia on-line and claim their entitlements (e.g. superannuation). If you were unfairly, summarily dismissed, and apparently these unfair dismissals are/were common, make your claim immediately as there is a time limit although exceptions are given if an acceptable reason is provided.

Do not be "bluffed" by any post, or any action taken by Commercial Securities, into not taking action. Bluffing, bullying, lies and veiled threats are their forte. They are cunning but their greed and unethical practices will eventually bring them down. Do your "bit " to speed this process and, if you feel threatened, contact police in your State.

 

[just looking]

Have a look at their website and you’ll also all notice that they have removed their ‘Monthly Results’ section which allowed a pdf download of results for the last 6 months or so (and which were obviously fabricated).

I hope that some of you investors were wise enough to
a) take some screenshots of the false information provided on the website and
b) download and keep copies of the pdf files with the false information? A good set of data for building a case against them.

 

[zanne40]

Hi all,
I previously sent information to "A Current Affair" re these lowlife.
As suggested by DrSmith, I just sent the same info to "Today Tonight".
If a few more of you also do the same, we may get a story.
We may not get our money back, but we can save others from their clutches.

Anyone that still has funds not yet lost.
Ring the bookie and put a block on the account.
Then download the withdrawall form.
Copy your licence or passport and get it signed by a JP, then fax it to them.

I'm still not convinced that the Bookie is not tied up in this in some way.

They may have covered themselves legally, but they need shutting down.
We need to publicise it, to jerk the authorities into action.
They don't usually do much, untill it hits the media.

 

[Josh Josh]

Hi all, I used money from profits in my stock market trading account to fund the $8800 and $10k betting account to get started at the start of May 2010. It is now 18th June and i have <$1k left in my betting acc. DO NOT TRUST THIS SYSTEM OR THE PEOPLE THAT SELL IT. This was obviously a HUGE mistake. Without counting the win/loss ratio, i would estimate it to be around 5%. These people seem to be talented in picking losing horses as i could have done better reading the form guides and betting myself!!
I have learned from my mistake and realy wish i had have read this Forum prior to signing up. DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. $17k in 7 weeks is what i have lost as the 3 year Licence is not worth a thing.

 

[Facts]

For those chasing money from Melbourne, we have been advised that the initial Melbourne manager of Gateway Technologies, that became Commercial Securities in October 2009, was Ms. Amanada Hann of Beldingford Manor, Cnr Laubes Road and One Tree Hill Road, Ferny Creek, a gated property in the Dandenongs (Victoria). Mobile: 0488788479

 

[sportpunter]

Have a look at their website and you’ll also all notice that they have removed their ‘Monthly Results’ section which allowed a pdf download of results for the last 6 months or so (and which were obviously fabricated).

I hope that some of you investors were wise enough to
a) take some screenshots of the false information provided on the website and
b) download and keep copies of the pdf files with the false information? A good set of data for building a case against them.

I believe I do have the old pdf, I shall look for it and post it. What I found interesting, is that all the odds that they quote were NSW TAB odds. This si particularly interesting because they bet at OvertheOdds which gives thebest of 3 tabs. So it is quite clear that none of the bets that were listed were actually made.

Simply they got the TAB NSW odds and pretended that they had bet them.

Interestingly also, I recieved a cold call today bfrom a horse racing betting firm in melbourne. They are going to send me out a pamflet and then call me back in a few days time regarding it. My guess is that it is the same group under a different name. I will be sure to post all the dodge scam info here as soon as I get it so that others dont get caught.