Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Commercial Securities?

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Why would people even think about investing in gambling because that's what it is. If you want to make money fast buy a lotto ticket because you have better odds of winning.

These horse racing scams have been around for twenty years can't believe people are still buying them. Why would them sell them to the public if they work, wouldn't you think they would sit back and become rich doing it themselves! :banghead:
 
I am another stupid invester but I was sucked in a different way I told them that I didn't have to money so they gave me this licenses that cost $5800 then starting with $1000 in the account they had to make $10000 in 6 months and I would have to pay the extra $3000 which if they could do that would be fine BUT I started this in November last year with $2000 in the account thinking it would build quicker which in the first week I thought I was onto something good because they had the account $900 ahead but then they lost it all plus more now the account balance is on about $800 I guess in a way I am more fortunate then others as I am only losing $7800 which is still less then some people are paying for a full license then having to put more money in the account for them to lose then I have rang them constantly and complained the only excuse I keep getting is they are working hard to try and turn it around but I know that will never happen I have tryed to cancel it but the reply I got is that I situation falls outside there refund policy and as for those results on the website that is a different stratergy they have been testing over the last year and were getting better results so they have only just started using it now that is why everything they put on is only for the win so all I want to say to everyone reading this thread if they ring you run a hundred mile in the other direction there so called system does not work
 
Nickb said:
I thought I was onto something good because they had the account $900 ahead but then they lost it all plus more now the account balance is on about $800
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Is your account balance +$800 or -$800 ?

If it's +$800, what do you have to do to get it out ?
If it's -$800 and you have not signed up for finance with them, be ungentlemanly the next time they ring prior to hanging up.
 
The account balance is $800 so they have lost $2100 in about 5 months if you include the $900 they won at the start
 
Nickb said:
The account balance is $800 so they have lost $2100 in about 5 months if you include the $900 they won at the start
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That's no good at all.

Well seems like they're committing some kind of fraud by advertising the results they are on their website.

According to it, the last 5 months have realised a $20,000 profit (Nov - March), based on a $10,000 account I assume, but still.

Dodgy, shonky shamsters. Can't wait for them to call me back and give them a piece of my mind.

Speaking of which, I gave ASIC a heads up and got a generic 'watch out for gambling' scams email back. Don't they want to be a bit more proactive? Guess not....
 
Nickb said:
The account balance is $800 so they have lost $2100 in about 5 months if you include the $900 they won at the start
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What are you going to do with that $800 ?

Are you going to withdraw it ?
 
Well considering that the licenses go for 3 years and there is no way I can get it refunded I am just going to leave it there and when they have lost it all they will not be getting another dollar. Tell you what over the odds which is the Northern Territories equivalent to TAB must absolutley love commercial securities they are just raking it in and they don't even have to do a thing
 
just looking said:
Can't wait for them to call me back and give them a piece of my mind.
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After you give them a serve, don't give them a change to respond. Hang up immediately.

Otherwise they will still consider you a potential customer.
 
Nickb said:
Well considering that the licenses go for 3 years and there is no way I can get it refunded I am just going to leave it there and when they have lost it all they will not be getting another dollar.
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Are they refusing to give you back the $800 left in your account ?
 
Gee I wish I,d stumbled upon this site before I was stupid enough to sign up> Yes the information sounded to good to be true And like everybody else says they are very persistant and persuavive untill you want to talk to them after the money starts dissappearing. I signed up in febuary spent 8800 for the management fee and 5000 to gamble with and according to there statics the are really rakeing in the cash:rolleyes:funny my over the odds account is less now 2200 and I am trying to stop any more hits.
Today I reported them to ASIC and they told me because commercial securities is a gambling company its not there department.ASIC said to report them to ACCC or the Department of Fair Trading. I doubt I will see any of my hard earned money but I would love to see the thieves get what they deserve
 
I heard about Commercial Securities from this bloke at work and have been following this thread for about a week. I contacted ASIC and according to them Commercial have no complaints against them. What I would like to know is how do these people make their money? OK there's the $8,800 "licence fee" which is, I believe, a one off payment. But once word gets out that their returns are bogus then who would want to hand over the licence fee? Wouldn't they just try to sell as many licences in a short period of time and then close up shop, that would be more scam like. Do they receive an ongoing royalty or income? Are the book makers in on it too and do they give Commercial some sort of commission? I don't quite get how they source their income.
 
Causes said:
Thanks for the good advices. No I will not be investing.

From a cold call 3-4 weeks ago I have been parrying with a salesman who forwarded a glossy brochure, showed good returns, $56,000, two further levels above, with a possible IPO in the future. When pushed could not give me details until "I had served my time" my words.

Last Saturday I was waiting for a sample of the "investments", they did not arrive. The choice of "referee" was only one, not good enough, You have all heard it before, its the same story.

Causes
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I too am currently being woo-ed by a lady called Natalie Hall representing Commercial Securities. She wants $8800 from me up-front for a 3-year membership, and recommended I invest a minimum of $1,000 into my "fully managed trading acount", with a view to "top it up" when I could afford to.

I initially received a glossy brochure after a cold call, and then a follow-up call approx 1 week later. I had read the paperwork and formed a list of questions to ask in the next call. She smoothly rattled off answers to all the obvious questions (red flag #1) and promised to send me the most recent results, as I highlighted to her that the results in the brochure were nearly 12 months old (red flag #2).

I did ring the sole referee she gave me and (Maree) sounded smoother than Natalie herself!! (red flag #3)

She even offered to talk to my wife about the structure of their "investment process" if I thought it was necessary to "make her understand"!!

This was the final red flag (#4) for me, so I politely said I'd think about it, and will ring her back if I wanted to proceed. She insisted that she would follow-up in a few days as there were only 10 spots remaining in South Australia and "she didn't want such a lovely person to miss out"...

I then found this thread (thank you everyone) and have no intention of answering any more of her phone calls.

Since that last call I have had no less than 15 missed calls from a "private number". A brief message was left on a couple of occasions, something about "only 2 left in SA". I have also had 4 missed calls from a mobile number (0450 xxx 706) which I know are also from her as they have each occurred a few minutes after the attempted private number calls!! Derrr....

I'd love to trick them into thinking I was going to invest and string them along for a while, but I don't have the time or energy. It all just makes me mad. I think I will also contact ASIC and see if I can register a complaint.

BTW, the latest results they sent me were $6,570.00 PROFIT for Jan 2010, a $2,360.00 LOSS for Feb 2010 and a $2,330.00 PROFIT for March 2010 - all based on an opening balance of $10,000 each month..... sounds alright doesn't it ... if it were true....

The one thing I didn't go to the trouble of checking was whether or not all the horses listed in the glossy brochure, actually did run and win on the dates said ..... did anyone else?

Who is to know if they really selected them BEFORE the races anyhow ..... dodgy bunch of thieves ...
 
RedFlagMeister said:
I'd love to trick them into thinking I was going to invest and string them along for a while, but I don't have the time or energy. It all just makes me mad. I think I will also contact ASIC and see if I can register a complaint.
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Every second of your life wasted on these crooks is a second you won't get back.

Another ungentlemanly reply followed by a not so subtle "hang up" is in order should they ring again.
 
alz said:
Do they receive an ongoing royalty or income?
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Yes. These parasites take advantage of people's natural instinct to gamble.

On the subject of cold-calling in general, it should be illegal where there's no ongoing business relationship between the two parties.

That would stop a lot of this crap.
 
RedFlagMeister said:
The one thing I didn't go to the trouble of checking was whether or not all the horses listed in the glossy brochure, actually did run and win on the dates said ..... did anyone else?

Who is to know if they really selected them BEFORE the races anyhow ..... dodgy bunch of thieves ...
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Thanks for this post, it's a good one to inform others. As I said, if this thread had been at this stage when they called me and I googled "commercial securities", I would've laughed at them instead of wasting time even considering it.

I did go as far as to test their results on horses running, results and dates and locations they ran, and of course they came up as being true to history... but like you said, and someone else pointed out - "it's easy to pick winners after the race"!

I'm enjoying the fact that this little discussion thread could be enough to stop the shamsters getting their way. I am kind of hoping they do call me back and I can point them in this direction to better inform them on the real results that their company is achieving :)
 
alz said:
What I would like to know is how do these people make their money? OK there's the $8,800 "licence fee" which is, I believe, a one off payment. But once word gets out that their returns are bogus then who would want to hand over the licence fee? Wouldn't they just try to sell as many licences in a short period of time and then close up shop, that would be more scam like. Do they receive an ongoing royalty or income? Are the book makers in on it too and do they give Commercial some sort of commission? I don't quite get how they source their income.
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They change their name regularly. Commercial Securities has only just been created recently, but the scammers themselves have been around under other names.
The fact that their current ABN has been registered for a few years means nothing, it had a completely different name a few months ago. They probably bought it from someone.

RedFlagMeister said:
I'd love to trick them into thinking I was going to invest and string them along for a while, but I don't have the time or energy. It all just makes me mad. I think I will also contact ASIC and see if I can register a complaint.
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(This has been mentioned before by someone, but probably lost in the noise.)

ASIC won't want to know.
http://www.fido.gov.au/fido/fido.ns...ing+betting+and+gambling+systems?openDocument ->
"Gambling systems aren’t investments. Horse races are not financial products or services. And for these reasons, computerised horse racing systems generally lie outside ASIC's responsibilities."

Your local Office of Fair Trading or the ACCC are the guys to contact.

Some more info here.
http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/SportsInvestmentScams
http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/694011

Who is to know if they really selected them BEFORE the races anyhow ..... dodgy bunch of thieves ...
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It's so much easier to pick after the races are finished. In fact, I can pick the winners of the last five Melbourne Cups with almost 100% accuracy.
 
just looking said:
I'm enjoying the fact that this little discussion thread could be enough to stop the shamsters getting their way. I am kind of hoping they do call me back and I can point them in this direction to better inform them on the real results that their company is achieving :)
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If you realise they are shamsters then you should also realise that they allready know the real results their company is achieving. They don't care what anyone thinks so telling them is a waste of time.

A more worthwhile course of action might be to write to local members (both State and Federal) about the above with a view to getting cold-call marketing laws tightened.
 
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