CNP - Centro Properties Group

[gensis1]

The next 19 days will be played out with rumours and speculation AGAIN, whether it be good or bad,sept 30 will be d-day AGAIN. This next would be the 6th extension the banks would give them...now they've sold some assets,got equity offers,and revenue has actually increased since last qtr...GR is "quietly confident" as he was pre may30th extension AGAIN...does anyone see a pattern here? or is it just me...


(btw..it would be highly be improper for any director to be buying or selling in the company atm..for someone to look at this as an indication for the companies future, clearly doesn't have a clue..)

 

[vida]

The next 19 days will be played out with rumours and speculation AGAIN, whether it be good or bad,sept 30 will be d-day AGAIN. This next would be the 6th extension the banks would give them...now they've sold some assets,got equity offers,and revenue has actually increased since last qtr...GR is "quietly confident" as he was pre may30th extension AGAIN...does anyone see a pattern here? or is it just me...


(btw..it would be highly be improper for any director to be buying or selling in the company atm..for someone to look at this as an indication for the companies future, clearly doesn't have a clue..)

YES that is the situation as it looks to me, we are back where we were a few months ago and it seems like more a sideways move rather than up or down, which is not really good but it is not really bad either 50/50.. and YES exactly what i was thinking about that comment directors were not accumulating -it would be not be appropriate for them to do this and I would think they have enough shares as it is to worry about and enough work protecting their holdings as well as the rest

 

[vida]

we are quiet here last few days, like the vanquished are resolutely quiet

it does look grim no doubt about it but the last big SP fall came after the article on the AUS dollar falling increasing borrowing costs but this also means that there is a lot more australian dollars being earned from the US shopping centres as I see it, am I right there? So it should not be an issue.

I have been thinking a lot about this 'investment' in CNP lately where I valiantly ignored all the analysts' and journalists' negativity and tuned into the positives and the hard work that Rufrano is doing and the potential.

So here I am about to lose an awful lot of money in my terms which I could have/should have invested somewhere with just as much potential that involved far less risk. I am wondering why I make this choice? the crazy in me

Anyway so I am pretty much resigned to accepting whatever the destiny is with my money in CNP, it can still go well and if not, well bye bye money

In meantime I am enjoying my life, I still have a portfolio some of which is coping well with the current market setbacks and I know will see better days even if CNP may not be in the family in those brighter future times

All we can do is wait and see and accept we have taken the risk knowingly and willingly and will we be rewarded or devastasted is the big question and the answer is not too far away, we can count the days

good luck on the big dipper and the ghost train of this stock where we can get out alive, its just all fun and games, don't take it too seriously

 

[$$Punt$$]

we are quiet here last few days, like the vanquished are resolutely quiet

it does look grim no doubt about it but the last big SP fall came after the article on the AUS dollar falling increasing borrowing costs but this also means that there is a lot more australian dollars being earned from the US shopping centres as I see it, am I right there? So it should not be an issue.

I have been thinking a lot about this 'investment' in CNP lately where I valiantly ignored all the analysts' and journalists' negativity and tuned into the positives and the hard work that Rufrano is doing and the potential.

So here I am about to lose an awful lot of money in my terms which I could have/should have invested somewhere with just as much potential that involved far less risk. I am wondering why I make this choice? the crazy in me

Anyway so I am pretty much resigned to accepting whatever the destiny is with my money in CNP, it can still go well and if not, well bye bye money

In meantime I am enjoying my life, I still have a portfolio some of which is coping well with the current market setbacks and I know will see better days even if CNP may not be in the family in those brighter future times

All we can do is wait and see and accept we have taken the risk knowingly and willingly and will we be rewarded or devastasted is the big question and the answer is not too far away, we can count the days

good luck on the big dipper and the ghost train of this stock where we can get out alive, its just all fun and games, don't take it too seriously

Hey Vida,

You followed your guts instinct and this led you to where you are. I was a bit lucky to sell off all my share when the SP was dropping to 23.5c though I still lost couple of thousands. I then entered to buy 200000 at 12 cents but look at the SP today...still dropping. I wonder how long it will go....surely it had to bounce back anytime now or latest 30 Sept dateline. Buy Low sell High. I still had faith that it will rebound and then I will sell. Hopefully it is a big rebound when the announcement is made.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Hey Vida,

You followed your guts instinct and this led you to where you are. I was a bit lucky to sell off all my share when the SP was dropping to 23.5c though I still lost couple of thousands. I then entered to buy 200000 at 12 cents but look at the SP today...still dropping. I wonder how long it will go....surely it had to bounce back anytime now or latest 30 Sept dateline. Buy Low sell High. I still had faith that it will rebound and then I will sell. Hopefully it is a big rebound when the announcement is made.

The chart looks crook.

I won't post it.

It may be better to cut your losses rather than holding on for a bounce..

gg

 

[vida]

there is only more bad news today on CNP : its quite disgusting as it appears the big asset sale for $780 milliion that I thought was a done deal is not yet so and may fall through. How terrible! and those other sales which according to what I had read over past months seemed to be done deals, and now they say they may not be so either. What is this rubbish... this changes everything

 

[shmi]

where are you getting this 'new' information from? Is this something new or just the same info restated in a new article

cheers

 

[vida]

Centro CEO warns of sale September 13, 2008

CENTRO'S much vaunted $US714 million ($887 million) US shopping centre fire sale is far from certain, with chief executive Glenn Rufrano warning yesterday that even if the sale went ahead it would be at a lower price.

Mr Rufrano said the contingent sale agreement had left Centro at the mercy of the markets, making it unable to give any assurances that the sale of 29 properties across 15 states would be finalised.

But the Centro chief said there was more certainty about the buyer wanting to pay less than the $US714 million price agreed in mid-July.

"We expect the buyer to re-negotiate the price," he said.

Mr Rufrano said Centro would work hard to maintain the price, but realistically a counter-proposal would come. Centro said in mid-July it had entered into an agreement to sell 29 of 31 properties in the Centro America Fund, a wholesale fund managed by the Centro group.

The $US714 million contract price represented only a 10 per cent discount to book value.

The sale could be critical to Centro's attempts to persuade the banks to grant the shopping group its fifth major debt extension.

Without that extension, Centro has until mid-December to repay almost $4 billion.

Centro has already admitted it cannot pay and used a financial planners' briefing yesterday for its unlisted direct property funds to repeat the message that debt extensions could provide a lifeline.

Mr Rufrano said he could not give any assurances about the future, but longer term debt could allow Centro to remain afloat until financial and property markets stabilised.

Asked if he thought the banks would agree to a debt for equity swap, Mr Rufrano said he did not know, but the current management team was the banks' best hope of getting their money back.

The briefing was told Centro's Direct Property Fund International and Direct Property Fund would collectively receive $US230 million if the US shopping centres sales -- understood to involve a US pension fund -- went ahead.

Both funds, which co-invest in other Centro vehicles as part of the group's complicated ownership structure, have had withdrawals suspended since December 17 last year in the wake of the Centro Properties Group collapse.

Centro said yesterday withdrawals would remain suspended for the foreseeable future.

Unitholders were also warned of likely losses if Centro re-calculated the funds' investment of about $797 million in the Centro Retail Investment Trust based on the head stock's actual share price, rather than net tangible assets.

Centro estimates a 24 per cent fall for the Direct Property Fund International, from 79c to 60c, and a 15 per cent drop for the Direct Property Fund, down from $1.27 to $1.08. Centro Properties Group shares closed steady yesterday at .11 cents

 

[redandgreen]

the AUD has fallen 20% since the CAF deal was negotiated...even if they do have to renegotiate at a lower price.....we may not be any worse off.

maybe the US super fund that was purportedly buying CAF is now running the ruler over the whole group given the precipitous SP decline since mid-july and declining value of the AUD

Pure speculation....... but you never know what might lie ahead in these next few weeks????????

 

[blogs]

Gaaawwwd this is looking terrible!! 8 cents....I hope for all the peoples sake here she recovers, I really do...good luck......must be a lot of people hurting

 

[nioka]

the AUD has fallen 20% since the CAF deal was negotiated...even if they do have to renegotiate at a lower price.....we may not be any worse off.

This depends on which currency to loans are using for finance. If the loans are in USD then they are blowing out further, if the interest payments are in USD same problen. However the US income is in USD and that may help. Who knows the way the finances are set up apart from those parties directly involved. The market is making a judgement that may be using the right or the wrong assumptions.

 

[vida]

what was that rubbish that Glenn Rufrano conveyed to the journalist where it was written that centro was "quietly confident". what did that mean, nothing obviously and why only publish now that the sales are not done deals. I was clearly mistaken as I had held onto the shares all this year believing that the sales had gone through and the lenders would on that basis extend the debt deadlines. The sales were a condition of the extensions and now they are not going to happen as probably the buyers are having trouble with paying for assets where market value is falling. This is not good and I want to get very agrro with CNP for not being clear ages ago that the announced sales agreements were not worth the paper printed on. This is total disaster and I will survive and I am not in debt myself but it looks like this CNP is not going to be supported by the banks under these conditions. I hope I am wrong and if they do extend and they still might, as they stand to lose a hell of a lot more now than even before if they withdraw their support earlierl. If they extend the SP will get back up but that is the question. What will the CNP lenders/backers do now - we need an urgent assessment and a true honest one. Everyone involved is stuck between a rock & a hard place

 

[redandgreen]

Centro is a victim of the sub-prime fiasco not a perpetrator.

All loan repayments are been met. up to date ... a perfect credit history

Loan ratio is still <75%

The fact that the CAF sale has not gone through is not a "show stopper"

It is not the time to be selling shopping centre...let the market recover.

Contrary to what many might believe, banks are reasonalble.

 

[vida]

Centro is a victim of the sub-prime fiasco not a perpetrator.

All loan repayments are been met. up to date ... a perfect credit history

Loan ratio is still <75%

The fact that the CAF sale has not gone through is not a "show stopper"

It is not the time to be selling shopping centre...let the market recover.

Contrary to what many might believe, banks are reasonalble.

yes I think along those lines too but CNP comments lately are they don't know what will happen, who will do what which is only fair of course. There were a lot of buyers today at historically low SP. I tend to think positively anyway and am not selling as what will happen if the banks/etc take over CNP. They will not get anything more for the centres and cannot run them.

Its an uprecedented situation, they say its a once in a hundred years event -and no one really knows what to do. The shopping centres are making money, they are paying the debt costs but the problem is probably that the banks and lenders are in a tight spot and might need all the money they can get. The banks shares are falling too, as their profitability falls dramatically but even so they can probably afford to extend the debt and not call it in.

If they call it in, the situation does not improve for anyone, not CNP and not the banks, very little will be gained and only a fraction of the debt will be paid back with buyers paying heavily discounted fire sale prices.

I think I will just close my eyes and wait it out and not look at my portfolio figures - they are too far from where they were last year. It was looking so incredibly healthy then and I didn't have CNP in it, a mistake I admit now even if they do recover, because I don't like the stress and more risk than I imagined I was getting into. I thought everything would be resolved by now.

Live and learn - from now on I can safely say that I will not be buying into any high risk share ever again. I have a few biotechs which are not doing well, and a couple that are doing great and will keep those but otherwise just stick to the profitable longterm stable low geared companies.

Did someone say CNP is a victim of the credit crunch? Well maybe so but a willing victim, if they hadn't have got into such massive debt last year they would be ok.

 

[vida]

Gaaawwwd this is looking terrible!! 8 cents....I hope for all the peoples sake here she recovers, I really do...good luck......must be a lot of people hurting

Blog: are you a CNP holder? What is your circumstance in relation to the company? On what basis are you making your meaningless waste of time comment If people don't have anything informative to say then they should not be posting. We don't have time for it.

 

[blogs]

Blog: are you a CNP holder? What is your circumstance in relation to the company? On what basis are you making your meaningless waste of time comment If people don't have anything informative to say then they should not be posting. We don't have time for it.

Vida, i understand you must be extremley stressed and upset at the moment so I will let you snide remark pass. And to think I was wishing you luck in my post, would hate to see your reaction if I posted that all holders had been forwarned.....

 

[vida]

that's another unnecessary post. We have all been aware of the risk and uncertainty. If you haven't got anything substantial informatively useful to add, stay off. That is the policy of this website. please explain your purpose

 

[vida]

The next 19 days will be played out with rumours and speculation AGAIN, whether it be good or bad,sept 30 will be d-day AGAIN. This next would be the 6th extension the banks would give them...now they've sold some assets,got equity offers,and revenue has actually increased since last qtr...GR is "quietly confident" as he was pre may30th extension AGAIN...does anyone see a pattern here? or is it just me...


(btw..it would be highly be improper for any director to be buying or selling in the company atm..for someone to look at this as an indication for the companies future, clearly doesn't have a clue..)

GENSIS; your summarisation of the situation was mine too at that point, including the fact that they had sold some assets which was of primary importance I thought. It was reported in the media that the failure of the sales was not going to be an impediment to debt extension talks. At that stage however I am not sure if all sale failures were evident. Now its a different story and the banks may not extend this time, but they also might.

 

[vida]

Centro America Fund sale terminatedt Susan Murdoch | September 15, 2008

SHOPPING mall owner Centro Properties said today a $US714 million sales agreement for its Centro America Fund has been terminated.

But Centro also said it remained in talks with the potential purchaser.

Centro (ASX: CNP), one of the highest profile Australian victims of the sub-prime crisis, announced on July 15 the proposed sale of 29 of the 31 shopping malls in its wholesale Centro America Fund.

Shares of Centro Properties shares lost 20 per cent to 0.084 cents this afternoon, as the benchmark S&P/ASX 200 index plunged 2.15 per cent.

Centro Retail Trust (ASX: CER) had lost 24 per cent to 0.11 cents.

Centro Properties, which manages almost 800 malls worth $22.6 billion and is the fifth-biggest shopping mall owner in the US, is selling assets to pay down debt.

It has already had several debt extensions from its lenders. Centro's chances of survival will now be under further pressure, with the sale of its America Fund looking less likely.

Richard Morris, analyst at Constellation Capital Management in Sydney, which holds shares in Australian property trusts, said: “They've got to be getting closer to oblivion, but the question is, do the lenders want to liquidate all these property assets in the current environment or would they prefer to leave them in the hands of Centro a bit longer in the hope the markets turnaround and there can be a more orderly sell down?

“Signing the death warrant for the company may not be the best outcome, that's what the banks would be thinking I'd assume.”

Centro said the due diligence period had expired and the purchaser had elected to terminate the agreement.

“Notwithstanding termination of the agreement, discussions between Centro and the purchaser are continuing,” Centro said.

 

[blogs]

lol explain my purpose? Oh I forgot, my pupose BY WISHING THE HOLDERS LUCK AND SHOWING A BIT OF EMPATHY must have been to somehow send the S.P lower...

Look Vida, its not my fault CNP is now below 8 cents, and its not my fault if you have done a heap of money on it. I made a post actually wishing you holders some luck ,get a life and stop taking you anger and frustration out on me.