Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

CNP - Centro Properties Group

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They can say as part of refinance agreement.
you give us all your dividend and pay down debt until such time we are comfortable with the level of debt then you can pay your share holders
and if brown stuff hit the fans, we got some dividends and your share holders get nothing. :D
 
Quixis said:
Cheers Bushman.

But do the banks have any say in whether the dividends are paid? I know the cash flows are good, just it would seems if a bank can say you can't pay a divie, they'd be running your business?
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I would say that in a case like this the banks ARE running the business. I can remember times when the bank controlled how I ran my business. The difference between running and controlling is not great. Any one who has had a margin call recently will agree that their trading has been at the discression of their banker.
 
Its strange the media have been suddenly quiet on Centro over past days. I expected some reporting on how Rufrano was going in USA but nothing. If he is out of the country doesn't mean he is out of touch - so maybe its good news soon and maybe its bad news soon. I feel a trading halt coming on.
 
vida said:
Its strange the media have been suddenly quiet on Centro over past days. I expected some reporting on how Rufrano was going in USA but nothing. If he is out of the country doesn't mean he is out of touch - so maybe its good news soon and maybe its bad news soon. I feel a trading halt coming on.
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Wondering the same, has been very quiet however Rufrano did say publicly before leaving that there won't be any announcements until close or up to the 15th Feb.

Though the last lack of info gap 1 1/2 weeks in late Jan saw the share price drift downwards, interestingly it's drifted upwards reflecting sentiment buildup to the 15th Feb.

The main question I ask myself is why did he go in the first place, what purpose was the trip serving, what could he gain in the US he couldn't do here and what was his objectives. I believe the following:

1- Presenting sale of the Centro America Fund to US interests by utilizing his personal networking and contacts which Scott may have lacked.
2- Sourcing avenues\costing of refinancing the short term debt ($3.9 Billion or less depending on CAWF, CAF) at perhaps a slight premium than US investment groups will be receiving currently, though lower than what Centro's costs would be domestically. This could be a second play in order to hold onto assets currently for sale.
3- Drumming up interest in the group as a whole for an equity injection.

I think there's a few 'givens' to throw into the equation:

1) CAWF will be sold, for how much we won't know till the deals done, shortlisting as far as I'm aware is completed, either way it directly should remove given the public available info around $2.1 Billion of the $3.9 short term debt, $1.8 billion left.

2) CAF will be sold, same as above, the markets talking $1.1 Billion or close to, hard given the nature of the assets and market sentiment in the US, if achieved this or close to, assume $900 million left which shouldn't be an issue for local lenders provided Rufrano can untangle the relationships between their entities to a clearer picture, especially regarding debt to equity positions and asset backing of loans.

The other issue been pondering is CER and Centro's 50% stake in it, gearing is quite low in comparison to CNP and assets of high quality. This would be a last resort though given broker sentiment to buy as opposed to CNP (likely due to differences in market exposure) and they've just had independent advisors appointed separate to CNP as requested by refinanciers of their $1.1 Billion which appears closed to locked in (since this was a requirement of the financing on the table) it looks possible to me a sellout of their 50% stake is another avenue though a last resort.

Either way, with lack of solid deals made its all speculation.. on the face of it they'll be selling 2 stakes with a smaller refinance or perhaps 3 stakes with debt reduction which either should solve the short term debt issue, and to me, provided they can as part of these sales retain the management rights (if sold to the likes of superannuation funds, this is likely) pay a reasonable dividend 12 months + (cancelled previously to reduce debt\equity levels to make more attractive\reduce debt).

I'm looking at it thinking a 6-12 month recovery with the red tape removed. Personally I think the 2 sales will happen and the locals will refinance the difference knowing their risk positions will be reduced. The share price will reflect dividend ratio, though won't be until 2009 as adverse sentiment throughout 08 will fluctuate all over the place until the dust settles and company info is available. I'm buying up at the sentiment dips for now and taking a 12m view with a hold perspective.
 
Wednesday February 13, 2008, 8:01 am

SYDNEY, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Creditors of Centro Properties Group CNP.AX have given it an extra two months to refinance its debt and help avoid a firesale of assets, the Sydney Morning Herald paper reported on Wednesday.

In an unsourced report, the paper said Centro will have until the middle of April to auction key parts of its shopping centre portfolio and refinance A$3.9 billion ($3.5 billion) in maturing debt. It had faced a Friday deadline to put a plan together.

Details of the new arrangement, agreed in principal with its main backers, Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Ltd (ASX: ANZ.ax) , Commonwealth Bank of Australia Ltd (ASX: CBA.ax) and National Australia Bank Ltd (ASX: NAB.ax) , were due to be announced on Friday, the paper said.

Centro, which owns 700 U.S. shopping malls, has struggled to refinance debt during the current credit crunch after borrowing heavily to expand over the past two years. ($1=A$1.11) (Reporting by James Thornhill)
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Was relief this morning to see that CNP could 'at least' avoid the firesale.
So...what's next from here?
 
Pity that Centro have adamantly denied this report. I wonder if the SMH is going to be involved in some litigation for publishing false reports?
 
GOSAFAS said:
Pity that Centro have adamantly denied this report. I wonder if the SMH is going to be involved in some litigation for publishing false reports?
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Just asking whether you've seen a report apart from the Bloomberg one? In it the Centro spokesman doesn't adamantly deny the report, he simply states that "no terms have been agreed." The SMH article refers to "agreement in principle" and the two positions aren't incompatible....not much grounds for litigation if in fact it turns out to be true
 
"There has been no agreement reached at this point with the U.S. and Australian banks. Negotiations are continuing on the terms and duration of any extension," a Centro spokesman said. What part of this exercise don't you understand mate?. No agreement reached MEANS no agreement reached.
 
AP
Report: Centro, Lenders Still in Talks
Tuesday February 12, 11:57 pm ET
Report: Australia's Centro Still Talking With Lenders About Extension of Debt Deadline


MELBOURNE, Australia (AP) -- Centro Properties Group, Australia's second-largest shopping mall owner, remains in talks with lenders about an extension on 3.9 billion Australian dollars (US$3.5 billion; euro2.4 billion) in maturing debt, a media report said Wednesday.


Earlier Wednesday the Sydney Morning Herald reported, without citing sources, that Melbourne-based Centro had been granted a reprieve by lenders to avoid a fire sale of its assets and had until mid-April to establish its plans.

An unnamed Centro spokesman said there is no agreement on an extension as yet, according to Dow Jones Newswires. The spokesman said Centro is still in talks with U.S. and Australian banks. - potentially litigious if it doesn't happen - dont you think :)?
 
GOSAFAS said:
"There has been no agreement reached at this point with the U.S. and Australian banks. Negotiations are continuing on the terms and duration of any extension," a Centro spokesman said. What part of this exercise don't you understand mate?. No agreement reached MEANS no agreement reached.
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Thanks mate. Was only asking as I'd only picked up snippets. I was wondering though about the media's angle as bad news runs for days and it seemed good news might be getting only a small run (which wouldn't be atypical). All articles I've seen source the SMH though which I guess is answer enough. Cheers, :)
 
trading halt!!!!!!!

where to from now? will we see something more substantial today? or are we going to be left over weekend?
 
Here comes the moment of truth where we will see the answer to the rumours and speculation. Going by the detailed quotes the general expectation is for good news.
 
it is indeed monent of truth. i have feeling it is positive, but i dont like having to hang all over the weekend to hear the verdict
 
Good luck all - I took a small profit and bailed, for your sakes I hope I made the wrong choice :)

Im punting a reprieve as mentioned in the earlier article until a later date, just hope broader market conditions dont deteriorate further during the assumed reprieve.
 
nioka said:
Here comes the moment of truth where we will see the answer to the rumours and speculation. Going by the detailed quotes the general expectation is for good news.
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It will be to detail an extension of current financing arrangements as reported in various media outlets. News will be out Tuesday if past trading halts are anything to go by.
 
from what ii gather (could be wrong) i think they must give ann today as this is deadline day.
obviously the news would have some backing re: extension... it is risk, i belive if ths is what it is SP should be over $1 on monday or soon as that is over.

i was going to sell some CER to rebuy CNP this morning DOH!

i guess once out of halt they will go upwards at same % rate so i can jump ship
 
I think it will be good news and the SP should spike when trading halt lifted but checking the Comsec site shows the next buy offer is .49cents but I know what Comsec shows during offmarket times is often weird & wrong. I am fairly confident it will be good news but not so confident about the SP going too high in this current climate, it is possible reaction will be negative even if it is positive news or am I being too pessimistic. I hope its all good.


Nathan_b said:
from what ii gather (could be wrong) i think they must give ann today as this is deadline day.
obviously the news would have some backing re: extension... it is risk, i belive if ths is what it is SP should be over $1 on monday or soon as that is over.

i was going to sell some CER to rebuy CNP this morning DOH!

i guess once out of halt they will go upwards at same % rate so i can jump ship
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That is great !! Means the trading halt should be lifted on Monday - fast work.

I am so confident in the company going forward and happy I have held onto my shares which I bought for only .66 cents.

Methinks they will be up to $X in matter of weeks. My only regret is that I didn't buy around .30c twice as many or even in .40c range, but it all happened too fast for me to catch it.

Its always easy to see in hindsight what we should have done but we react to ourselves as if we should have known, should have done, should have seen

My cousin & her husband who bought $100k worth last year at top SP range were not worried - their financial adviser investigated carefully and told them to ignore recent problems and get on with their lives. Their confidence boosted mine in buying at .66c. We may have all done the right thing, soon c










Bushman said:
Ann out on the Centro website for both CNP and CER. Extension to refinancing granted. Also admit to current/non current debt classification being incorrect.


http://www.centro.com.au/NR/rdonlyr...nsionsofFinancingArrangementsFINAL15Feb08.pdf
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