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Climate change another name for Weather

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stocksontheblock said:
I'm so glad to see such a valuable contribution. Thank you! :p:
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I am not convinced that CO2 emmissions has anything to do with Global Warming, oops sorry it is now Climate Change since the ALARMIST have been proven wrong. The globe is actually cooling according to the latest statistics.

I have travelled the world and yes there are places in need pollution control purely for local inhabitants health; Thailand, Manila, Beijing just to name a few.

The ETS that the Labor Party are trying to sell is fraudulent to say the least. It is nothing more than a gigantic tax grab and will do absoluty nothing to reduce CO2 emmissions. The only thing it will do is affect your hip pocket.

You don't have to be uni graduate or a rocket scientist to work that out.
 
noco said:
I am not convinced that CO2 emmissions has anything to do with Global Warming, oops sorry it is now Climate Change since the ALARMIST have been proven wrong. The globe is actually cooling according to the latest statistics.

I have travelled the world and yes there are places in need pollution control purely for local inhabitants health; Thailand, Manila, Beijing just to name a few.

The ETS that the Labor Party are trying to sell is fraudulent to say the least. It is nothing more than a gigantic tax grab and will do absoluty nothing to reduce CO2 emmissions. The only thing it will do is affect your hip pocket.

You don't have to be uni graduate or a rocket scientist to work that out.
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An excellent point.

Its a tax gathering exercise.

Perhaps the best description of GW was by Bob Lutz, in 2008, at the time a Senior VP of GM motors.

"Global warming is a crock of ****."

gg
 
So_Cynical said:
A while ago i actually tried to find out what the the GHG impact of plastic bags was...After a lot of digging, eventually came to the conclusion it was pretty much irrelevant.
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The GHG impact from the bags themselves. But there are a lot of scenarios where the GHG impact from not having them is significant which, on balance, suggests that a ban on bags would result in an overall increase in emissions.

Fix one problem whilst increasing another.

Taking into account all the impacts and limitations of all the available power generation technologies...the liquid-fluoride thorium reactor LFTR has to come out on top...ill cut and paste the important bits.
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Agreed that, in theory, thorium reactors have a lot of advantages over fossil fuels and conventional nuclear (uranium) reactors. There's still some impact on the environment though, there ain't no free ride in the energy game, but agreed they'd be a massive improvement over coal, oil, gas or uranium. How they compare with solar, wind, hydro, geothermal etc is harder to assess since the nature of impacts is very different.

Personally, and this is only my opinion:

1. Geothermal and Low impact renewables (non-controversial sites for wind, hydro, wave, solar etc)
2. Thorium
3. High impact renewables (wind farms in scenic areas, damming the wilderness and so on)
4. Fossil fuels
5. Uranium

In that order would be my preference. Main reason I'm so against uranium is that at some point war and/or natural disaster is almost guaranteed. It's simply naive to think we'll go 100 years, let alone 100,000 years, without conflict and I'd rather not have a pile of fissionable material in every tin pot dicatorship when it happens. And nor would I want one in my backyard to be a target for others. And in any event, it's still a limited resource that depletes just like oil and gas - it's at best a short term solution. (Thorium is also limited, but there's a lot more of it than there is uranium).

Geothermal, low impact renewables and thorium ought to not create too much havoc overall in their use, hence a preference for them.

High impact renewables will mess up the scenery BUT this is a temporary, reversible problem that won't cook the planet or make anything uninhabitable. Even the strongest opponents of such schemes (including Bob Brown himself) acknowledges that the impacts are reversible in a matter of decades at most which sure beats waiting 100,000 years to clean up the mess from fossil fuels or uranium.

As for the rest, if there's one thing in favour of coal it's that it's relatively peaceful in a military sense which is more than can be said for oil and to some extent gas.
 
Of course this doesn't "prove" anything but it is weather and it is warming.
Since we are in an El Niño period which is meant to provide us with colder weather and since the Sun at present is in its quiet mode, also meaning we should be getting cooling, this is particuarly worrying.

Record set to tumble for hot August nights
Page: Print Asa Wahlquist, Rural writer | August 27, 2009
Article from: The Australian
AUSTRALIA is on track for a record hot August, and this winter is likely to be the hottest on record as well.

The Bureau of Meteorology yesterday issued a special climate statement in which it said this month was set to be the warmest August on record "by a substantial margin".

Blair Trewin, from the National Climate Centre, said "it will almost certainly be the warmest winter on record for South Australia and NSW and a reasonable chance for Victoria and Tasmania".

Whether it beats the national record depends on the next few days. The average August temperature this year is currently 0.08C behind the record, set in 1996, "but our forecast indicates that will probably nudge up a bit over the next few days," Dr Trewin said.

Temperature records were broken by unprecedented margins.

Murwillumbah's August record was broken by 5.1C, while another nine stations broke their records by 4C or more. Many coastal towns in northern NSW and southern Queensland experienced their hottest day of 2009 in August, beating summer highs.

And many centres experienced hot August nights, setting new records for minimum temperatures. Lismore, in northern NSW, broke its record by more than 3C when the overnight temperature stayed at 23.3C on Tuesday night.

Dr Trewin said the forecast for northern Australia was to remain hot, making a record-setting winter likely.

"To miss out on the record from here, we'd need to have very much below-average temperatures for the next five days, and there is no indication that is going to happen." He said the hot weather had been more a result of what did not happen than what did. Typically there are warm periods in August, but strong frontal systems from the south push cool southerly air into the tropics.

But the southern fronts did not arrive this month, and the air kept warming and the temperature kept rising.

"What happened earlier this week was that after this hot air had been building over the continent for the last two or three weeks, you started to get more of a westerly flow over northeastern NSW, southeast Queensland, which brought that hotter air out to the coast," he said.

The warm weather is forecast to stay, with the bureau's seasonal outlook for a high probability of above normal temperatures through the spring over most of the continent.

Dr Trewin said the El Niño weather event had stalled. "It is still kicking along at about El Niño thresholds. Sea surface temperatures are running about 0.8C above normal in key areas."

Normally during an El Niño, the central and eastern Pacific are warm and the waters closer to Australia are quite cool. "On this occasion, it is warm pretty well right across the Pacific," Dr Trewin said. "That is quite an unusual combination."
 
Off Topic, but have a look what happens when one of those windmills carks it.
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

 
Crap that's impressive - makes you wonder how these guys got the pictures - they weren't carrying a shotgun with them were they?

Cheers
 
In the times of the Mayan Kingdom, it was human sacrifice to appease the gods...

Now, in these 'modern' times, it's the payment of tax to appease the gods...

It's either our lives or our money ...

Best make for the boonies if there's talk of pyramid construction to foster a 'green solution' ...
 
Knobby22 said:
Article from: The Australian
AUSTRALIA is on track for a record hot August, and this winter is likely to be the hottest on record as well.
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As we move to greener technology over the next few years and the Global Dimming effect decreases, I think new "hot" records will be commonplace.
 
So, Peter, Penny and Kev.
Just how much direct impact does CO2 increase have on Australia's climate and rainfall?
And....don't you realise or understand that the science is dynamic? Not all the answers are known, let alone the questions.

Has Northern-hemisphere Pollution Affected Australian Rainfall?

ScienceDaily (Aug. 26, 2009) ”” New research announced at the international Water in a Changing Climate science conference in Melbourne, 24-28 August, implicates pollution from Asia, Europe and North America as a contributor to recent Australian rainfall changes. Australian scientists using a climate model that includes a treatment of tiny particles – or aerosols – report that the build up of these particles in the northern hemisphere affects their simulation of recent climate change in the southern hemisphere, including rainfall in Australia.

The CSIRO climate model, which can include the effects of aerosols caused by humans, suggests that aerosols – whose major sources are in the northern hemisphere – can drive changes in atmospheric and oceanic circulation in the southern hemisphere. Their model results suggest that human-generated aerosols from the northern hemisphere may have contributed to increased rainfall in north-western and central Australia, and decreased rainfall in parts of southern Australia.

Lead researcher, Dr Leon Rotstayn, Principal Research Scientist at the Centre for Australian Weather and Climate Research, a partnership between CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology, said: “Perhaps surprisingly, inclusion of northern hemisphere aerosols may be important for accurate modelling of Australian climate change.”

Aerosols come from many different sources. Sulphur is released when we burn coal and oil. More dust, also an aerosol, circulates in the atmosphere when land is cleared, burned or overgrazed. Some aerosols occur naturally like sea spray and volcanic emissions, but NASA estimates ten percent of the total aerosols in the atmosphere are caused by people. Most of this ten percent is in the northern hemisphere.

European researchers also attending the conference will discuss a new forecasting service that will identify in unprecedented detail where these aerosols are coming from and where they are going.

The new service, part of Europe’s Global Monitoring for Environment and Security (GMES) initiative, will give global information on how pollutants move around the world across oceans and continents, and will refine estimates of their sources and sinks.

Dr Adrian Simmons from the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts, which is coordinating the multi-institution initiative, says: “The service will give much more detailed forecast information on air quality over Europe and provide the basis for better health advice across Europe and beyond”. The service has clear implications for environmental policy and legislation.

The five-day conference, organised by the Global Energy and Water Cycle Experiment (GEWEX) and the Integrated Land Ecosystem-Atmosphere Processes Study (iLEAPS) and locally hosted by Monash University, brings together many of the world’s leading experts to discuss the important processes that govern water availability and drought and their role in present and future climate and global change.

Professor Christian Jakob, who holds the Chair for Climate Modelling at Monash University and who chairs the local organising committee for the conference says: “It is fantastic to have attracted more than 350 researchers from more than 15 countries to come to Australia to discuss these very timely issues with us here in Melbourne.”

“The exchanges of energy, carbon and water between the land, ocean and atmosphere are of utmost importance to current and future climate. The fundamental role of the land surface, clouds, aerosols and of course rainfall for climate has been highlighted many times in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). This conference will advance our knowledge in all these important areas by bringing world-leading experts together for a week of discussions. It has been a great privilege for me and Monash University to host this event,” he added.

The conference brings together the work of two major international research projects: GEWEX and iLEAPS. These projects complement each other and collaborate in a variety of global-change and climate-change research
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This ETS Tax is going to bugger the country and be a politically correct burden on the shoulders of succeeding generations.

What a dose of trots are the Wongs and the Rudds of this world.

Nerds seem to have taken over our government.

Soul less , humourless, nerds.

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
This ETS Tax is going to bugger the country and be a politically correct burden on the shoulders of succeeding generations.

What a dose of trots are the Wongs and the Rudds of this world.

Nerds seem to have taken over our government.

Soul less , humourless, nerds.

gg
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GG, I reckon if Malcolm Turnbull should followed the Nats and several of his Liberal MP's, do a 180 degree turn on this ETS and his ratings would go up 10 or 20 points.
The SCEPTICS are gaining in momentum, the average JOE BLOW are starting to wake up to RUDD and WONG for the frauds they are. They have to be stopped.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
This ETS Tax is going to bugger the country and be a politically correct burden on the shoulders of succeeding generations.

What a dose of trots are the Wongs and the Rudds of this world.

Nerds seem to have taken over our government.

Soul less , humourless, nerds.

gg
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Yep. Look at all the parties young members. They are all the nerds who have nothing better to do, or no one better to socialise with, so joining a political party makes them think they have power. :2twocents
 
With climate change the drought is permanent, or so we were told.

Now we've just had the wettest Winter in Hobart since 1974 and we're not far off the all-time record either. Everything's green, you can't go anywhere without people talking about the weather, downpours waking everyone up just about every night, flooding all over the place and the Hydro's getting all excited (publicly) about the financial benefits.

Same thing happened last time the world was cooling back in the 1970's.:2twocents
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
This ETS Tax is going to bugger the country and be a politically correct burden on the shoulders of succeeding generations.

What a dose of trots are the Wongs and the Rudds of this world.

Nerds seem to have taken over our government.

Soul less , humourless, nerds.

gg
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GG,
Good points.
It's effective to ask who the invisible hand is.
GG, I reckon if Malcolm Turnbull should followed the Nats and several of his Liberal MP's, do a 180 degree turn on this ETS and his ratings would go up 10 or 20 points.
The SCEPTICS are gaining in momentum, the average JOE BLOW are starting to wake up to RUDD and WONG for the frauds they are. They have to be stopped.
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So if it would pick up his ratings and deliver better things to him then why doesn't he do it? Perhaps there is something globally powerful driving this thing.
 
Yes folks, it was all about 'global warming' until things got cooler and it rained.

Now, it's about 'climate change'. The wongs will be wright about this one every time now. Every time the climate changes, they'll wack on a new tax.

When there's a drought, the mantra will be 'pay tax'...

When there's a flood, the mantra will be 'pay tax'...

When it's hot as hell, the manta will be 'pay tax'...

When it's cold as the north pole, the mantra will be 'pay tax'...

And then, when it's clear that paying tax doesn't solve the problem, then..

.... heads will roll ... it's always been the most effective way for human beings to appease the gods when nothing else works.

so, remember, when ms. wong & co. talk about building pyramids, head for the boonies.. it could very well be that your HEAD will roll next.
 
The preceding comments are very interesting.

Perhaps the Thread should be Climate change, another name for TAXES.

The medieval peasant was in a bind. The harder he oe she worked the more the Baron or Lord took.

It would appear that Rudd and Wong have cottoned on to a way of taxing the non existent. Taxing a possibility rather than an actuality.

Muppets.

gg
 
For the first time, I have succeeded in having Roses bloom for 12 months of the year. Dont know whether its because I am getting better as a gardener, but this August has been like late Spring.

Havent read this thread but I reckon all the changes humanity is making to the environment is certainly heating the earth.

Chance of reversing it..nil

Lots of interesting evidence of climate change in the past, obviously not caused by human intervention.
 
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