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Climate change another name for Weather

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slim pickins said:
Hindsight, sure I'd buy a hummer. But a car is not an asset that I try make money on. It's an expense. I have 2 cars now both 200+ horsepower. 65+!litres. Gees, oil futures for january were 35$ they will hit $20 soon. So much for oil running out:)
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As a long term oil investor I think this price collapse is the best thing that could possibly happen. With so much new production now unviable and global output set for long term decline as a direct consequence, it can only lead to higher prices once falling production catches demand. :)
 
slim pickins said:
The last I saw even Venice, less then a metre above the sea is just like is was 400 years ago.

Again does anybody actually believe the oceans have risen even a fractional amount?
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bad guess there slim
the place has sunk a heap for a start ;)
- due to pumping from artesian wells - acquifers etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice
During the 20th century, when many artesian wells were sunk into the periphery of the lagoon to draw water for local industry, Venice began to subside. It was realized that extraction of the aquifer was the cause. This sinking process has slowed markedly since artesian wells were banned in the 1960s.

However, the city is still threatened by more frequent low-level floods (so-called Acqua alta, "high water") that creep to a height of several centimeters over its quays, regularly following certain tides. In many old houses the former staircases used by people to unload goods are now flooded, rendering the former ground floor uninhabitable. Many Venetians have resorted to moving up to the upper floors and continuing with their lives.
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A mate from Vostok in the Antarctica sent me this graph which out graphs any of 2020's short term scribbling.

The world is now cooler than it was millennia ago.

gg
 

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rederob said:
So am I.
I asked Wayne if he could tell us the difference, and why it was so important in the context of this thread. Perhaps he needs another year to think about it.... and luckily 2009 is another year.
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Sir,
But, if sea ice controls the climate then how is land ice more of a problem in your eyes? According to you? You have pushed for some discussion on it and I am willing to listen to what you have to say but you refuse to talk about it.
 
It's Snake Pliskin said:
Interesting GG.

How can they get data for so long ago?
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Buggered if I know.

I'm not an empiricist because of the lack of data.

I'm a rationalist.

So when he an eminent scientist emailed me this I posted it.

A Reasonable response in a sea of unpredictability

Graphs are graphs.

gg
 
Notice where that graph ends gg

Bit like that Great Global Warming Swindle - that conveniently ignored recent years. :2twocents
http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/globalwarmingswindle/

Bernie Hobbs is an award-winning science writer and broadcaster with ABC Science.
... If the last 30 years' data were included in the graph, you'd see that thick blue line shoot abruptly skywards - like it does in the IPCC graph below - because northern hemisphere temperatures in the last two decades were way above those during Europe's Medieval Warm Period. In fact, they're way above anything in the last 650,000 years.
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http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/climate_change/change.htm
See the right hand end of your graph. That should be in the positive by about 0.4degC (if you accept full hockey stick) or by about 0.2 or 0.3degC (if you discount it). Surely no one is saying that it's cooler than the 61-90 average = the zero datum of all those graphs :rolleyes:

i.e. Even if you discount some of the hockey stick you still have current temp the same as if not hotter than the past 425,000 years (and more).

http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/climate_change/challenge.htm
 

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You are an elf 2020 mate

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gg
 
Venice floods have nothing to do with rising seas, as the greens have admitted. Regardless, Venice is just fine. They are fixing it all up. You can still have a cuppa at st marks without getting your feet wet.

Oceans have NOT risen 20cm this century, that's just bogus. Who decided what a stable geological landmark is. Is Venice one of them?!?!??!

False science can trick people fir only so long. Sooner or later they will open their eyes and see that all the graphs simply don't match the situation on the ground.

Where will this water come from when every year the antartic ice sheet is getting thicker and thicker. Above 2km in places. The higher you get the colder it is. Right now we need a 50 degree Celsius warming to affect the Ice sheet.
 
In any case, this is what it will look like if we get temp increases of 2 deg (with really strict reductions in CO2) or more probably 4 deg (because the inertia is massive) - and within a hundred years or so.
 

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It's Snake Pliskin said:
Sir,
But, if sea ice controls the climate then how is land ice more of a problem in your eyes? According to you? You have pushed for some discussion on it and I am willing to listen to what you have to say but you refuse to talk about it.
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Wayne stuck up pictures of Arctic sea ice a while ago, showing there was no problem as there was more this year.
2007 was the record low point for Arctic sea ice, and it's getting thinner and not lasting as long as normal.
As a barometer of climate, sea ice is not as good an indicator as land ice.
A very simple reason is because we have different trends at each polar region.
Sea ice does not "control" climate. It does have an impact; and that's largely to reflect the sun's rays.
Arctic sea ice is on a sure course to melt completely during the summer months: And we are talking within the next decade or two.
 
slim pickins said:
Venice floods have nothing to do with rising seas, as the greens have admitted. Regardless, Venice is just fine. They are fixing it all up. You can still have a cuppa at st marks without getting your feet wet.

Oceans have NOT risen 20cm this century, that's just bogus. Who decided what a stable geological landmark is. Is Venice one of them?!?!??!

False science can trick people fir only so long. Sooner or later they will open their eyes and see that all the graphs simply don't match the situation on the ground...
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So let's get this straight slim
1. You've been to Venice, but you didn't know it was sinking.

2. They are engaging in drastic and massive engineering projects to try to turn this around - but you say all's "fine".

3. "Doesn't match the situation on the ground" - what about during high tides? (that photo I posted) - where there's damnall "ground" to check what the situation is. :eek:

4. And you tell us that the tidal records are all about "tricking people for so long" ...

Lemme guess, you're probably a fan of George Bush as well.
As he would say, "You can fool some of the people all the time ... and they're the people I'm talking to".

Here are some of those "trivial" little corrections they are attempting in Venice. btw :-

Some recent studies have suggested that the city is no longer sinking,[11][12] but this is not yet certain; therefore, a state of alert has not been revoked. In May 2003 the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi inaugurated the MOSE project (Modulo Sperimentale Elettromeccanico), an experimental model for evaluating the performance of inflatable gates; the idea is to lay a series of 79 inflatable pontoons across the sea bed at the three entrances to the lagoon. When tides are predicted to rise above 110 centimetres, the pontoons will be filled with air and block the incoming water from the Adriatic sea. This engineering work is due to be completed by 2011.

Some experts say that the best way to protect Venice is to physically lift the City to a greater height above sea level, by pumping water into the soil underneath the city.[13] This way, some hope, it could rise above sea levels, protecting it for hundreds of years, and eventually the MOSE project may not be necessary (it will, controversially, alter the tidal patterns in the lagoon, damaging some wildlife). A further point about the "lifting" system would be that it would be permanent; the MOSE Project is, by its very nature, a temporary system: it is expected to protect Venice for only 100 years.
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PS "In any case they are fixing it up".

Yep - that's what should be happening (and will happen) about GW as well. :2twocents
 
rederob said:
Wayne stuck up pictures of Arctic sea ice a while ago, showing there was no problem as there was more this year.
2007 was the record low point for Arctic sea ice, and it's getting thinner and not lasting as long as normal.
As a barometer of climate, sea ice is not as good an indicator as land ice.
A very simple reason is because we have different trends at each polar region.
Sea ice does not "control" climate. It does have an impact; and that's largely to reflect the sun's rays.
Arctic sea ice is on a sure course to melt completely during the summer months: And we are talking within the next decade or two.
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The seas go up and down mate.

The vast majority of people turn on their fuel at night to cook their food.

They go to work or pleasure on the quickest available transport.

Even Al Gore cannot stick to the belief.

Nothing you can say or do will make any difference.

gg
 
slim pickins said:
Remakable! Have never heard such drivel in my life. Unsubsadised Unleaded is $16/barrel in USA! remarkable and false! Downright lie.

Crude is $1.50 per barrel to produce. The january contract was
$35/barrel recently. That's a nice markup that keeps friendly Arabs happy:) used to be 5 times more just 6 months ago.

One in the USA petrol is about $2.90 or so and that's after a large tax. In fact oil is taxed every step of tv
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Estimates of the price of it all do, in fact exist. A 1998 study by the International Centre for Technology Assessment in Washington entitled "The Real Price of Gasoline," for example, added up "the many external costs of using motor vehicles." The study tallied up everything from the oil industrie's tax subsidies to the costs of protecting supply lines, to the environmental, health and social costs of running all those millions of internal combustion engines, and it came up with a cost----per year, in the United States alone----of between $558.7 billion and $1.69 trillion, which equates to $5.60 to $15.14 per gallon at the pump
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pp.114 and 115 Turner C, The Geography of Hope, 2007

A downright lie you say. A head for good business adds up all the costs of a product. If the availalbe tecnology recieved the assistance of petrol and petrol guzzlers we would find the alternatives not only cheaper but cleaner and offerring more jobs. Just look at what the internet has done and who would have concieved of that 20 years ago. Some did, they are prolly some of your nut cases, oh thats right Climatologists.
 
The sun rose in the East this morning.

It was a glorious day in Townsville.

I spent most of the day watching the Test on Ch 9 and listening to the commentary on ABC Radio.

The sun is now setting.

The third pair of hatchings from the sunbird nest are trying to get enough courage and energy to leave the nest.

gg
 
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