Climate change another name for Weather

[Smurf1976]

Hi all

I stumbled across this story of an energy conservation group in Europe who turn the lights off shopfronts in France to conserve energy. Apparently its not illegal for anyone to turn the exterior lights off, as long as the lights are turned off from the outside!!!

What do you guys think of this? Vigilantes or concerned citizens?

http://knitting.thomaslaupstad.com/video-of-french-activists-turning-off-neon-signs-clan-du-neon/

Symbolism that only reinforces the "back to the dark ages" notion that surrounds the whole issue.

If I wanted to attract attention and raise some awareness of the overall energy issue then I'd go and put up, say, 1 million Christmas lights rather than running around turning off shop signs. Then admit just how trivial that 1 million lights is in terms of energy consumption and how massive the problems we face really are.

1 million incandescent Christmas lights - using about as much power as one of the big six or V8 cars that drove past looking at them, a statistic that's absolutely true but which most would find hard to comprehend. When you realise that a million lights is nothing, you start to grasp just how much energy we use and how big this issue really is.

Yes I'm serious. One million lights. One trivial load. That's the point and the problem.

 

[slim pickins]

Hindsight, sure I'd buy a hummer. But a car is not an asset that I try make money on. It's an expense. I have 2 cars now both 200+ horsepower. 65+!litres. Gees, oil futures for january were 35$ they will hit $20 soon. So much for oil running out of course it won't stop labor taxing the life out of us. Butbthey will be a one term government I hope.

My offer stands. I'll insure you against rising seas levels, alien invasion and you being stalked and harrassed by supermodels. All guaranteed not to happen by me personly. Backed up with all I have

 

[slim pickins]

www.thisisreality.org

Have a read! I knew it, I just knew it! "There is no such thing as clean coal"
Proof of their agenda. Co2 is not a problem at all. This was never about any science or charts or modules. It's about turnig our backs on our way of life.

It's about sharing our bath water and drinking our neighbours urine. About living in a communist utopia where the ministry of population control decides who will reproduce and who will have to die.

We need a strong conservative movement in Australia to save of from these people. God help us all.

 

[Calliope]

www.thisisreality.org

Have a read! I knew it, I just knew it! "There is no such thing as clean coal"
Proof of their agenda. Co2 is not a problem at all. This was never about any science or charts or modules. It's about turnig our backs on our way of life.

It's about sharing our bath water and drinking our neighbours urine. About living in a communist utopia where the ministry of population control decides who will reproduce and who will have to die.

We need a strong conservative movement in Australia to save of from these people. God help us all.

That's a nice Orwellian touch calling themselves Reality. Straight out of 1984.

Oops, spelt a word wrong there. Better fix it, otherwise I will attract the attention a certain self-appointed Big Brother spellchecker and nitpicker. Done.

 

[rederob]

Oh, and on the sea/land ice issue we are still waiting.

So am I.
I asked Wayne if he could tell us the difference, and why it was so important in the context of this thread. Perhaps he needs another year to think about it.... and luckily 2009 is another year.

 

[2020hindsight]

Hindsight, sure I'd buy a hummer. But a car is not an asset that I try make money on. It's an expense. I have 2 cars now both 200+ horsepower. 65+!litres.

slim pickins, And I believe you said back there, global warming is a good thing yes?
... maybe we start with some comics - you might get the picture.

Global warming is a good thing and we should strive toward that end. Within reason

(PS I believe you're tacitly admitting that you'll lose money on the hummers)

 

[Calliope]

slim pickins, And I believe you said back there, global warming is a good thing yes?
... maybe we start with some comics - you might get the picture.

(PS I believe you're tacitly admitting that you'll lose money on the hummers)

'vested interest' These are the people who depend on other people using a lot of fuel if they are to continue to make money.

And provide millions of jobs for people who actually work for a living. Not like theorists who idle away their days collecting cyber garbage and reading comics.

 

[explod]

And provide millions of jobs for people who actually work for a living. Not like theorists who idle away their days collecting cyber garbage and reading comics.

The technologies for practical alternatives have been developed. Increased development in these directions have been shown (particularly in Denmark) to more that make up for the jobs lost on the fossil fuel side. Add to that the huge subsidies for example in the USA where the real cost of a gallon of fuel at the pump is US$16 a gallon.

Change has always in the past provided new opportunities and expands our overall options in all technologies.

Some above also mentioned bush fires. I understand that the emissions from wood fires is a good co2 used by plants to regenerate. That from oil and coal are toxic. In fact there is some argument that we would be better off warming our homes again with the good old wood fire.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/25/2455015.htm?section=justin

Marshall Is declares emergency over floods
Posted Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:00pm AEDT

A state of emergency has been declared in the Marshall Islands after huge waves forced hundreds of people to flee their homes.

The western Pacific islands have been hit three times in the past fortnight, swamping the capital, Majuro, which is less than one metre above sea level

.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/25/2455015.htm?section=justin
.

Quote:
Marshall Is declares emergency over floods
Posted Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:00pm AEDT

A state of emergency has been declared in the Marshall Islands after huge waves forced hundreds of people to flee their homes.

The western Pacific islands have been hit three times in the past fortnight, swamping the capital, Majuro, which is less than one metre above sea level

endquote.


So what I'm hearing is that the world should stay just as it is so that The Church of Climatology can justify its existence.

Singapore and the Emirates are reclaiming land. Surely the Marshall Islanders can get off their butts and do as the Dutch did hundreds of years ago with dykes etc. ( no offence meant to anyone).

gg

 

[rederob]

Singapore and the Emirates are reclaiming land. Surely the Marshall Islanders can get off their butts and do as the Dutch did hundreds of years ago with dykes etc. ( no offence meant to anyone).

Dutch government warned against rising sea levels
THE HAGUE, Sept 3 (AFP) Sep 03, 2008
Low-lying Netherlands must spend more than 100 billion euros on dike upgrades and coastal expansion to avoid the ravages of rising sea levels due to global warming, experts warned Wednesday.
The country, nearly two-thirds of which lies below sea level, must spend up to 1.5 billion euros (2.1 billion dollars) per year over the next century on additional safety measures, said a report compiled by a government appointed commission.

"The security challenge is urgent: the climate is changing, the sea level rising and river flows increasing while a quarter of dikes and dams do not meet the current safety norms," states the report presented to Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende in The Hague.

It said "an extra amount of between one and 1.5 billion euros per year is needed to 2100." The figure represents about 0.3 percent of national income.

The Delta commission recommended a large-scale upgrade of dikes protecting the country from the North Sea.

And it proposed expanding the North Sea coast by a kilometre by dumping large quantities of sand -- a project for which extra 100 to 300 million euros would be needed.

Make that NOW , for the Dutch, Garpal.
The "weather" men are not on the sunny side of this discussion.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/06/hurricane_modeling?currentPage=all#

When Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans in late August 2005 and the levees around the city broke, flooding the city and killing hundreds, Ed Link was as surprised as everyone else.

He shouldn't have been. As one of the nation's foremost hurricane experts, Link, a professor at the University of Maryland, had access to the government's most sophisticated mathematical models for predicting damage from big Gulf Coast storms. But those models weren't accurate because the data they were based on were incomplete, out of date or just plain wrong.

As the floodwaters receded and the Army Corps of Engineers rushed to repair the levees, the government asked Link to lead a team of engineers and scientists from the government and private sector -- 300 in all -- to recode those old models. The goal of the vaguely named Interagency Performance Evaluation Task Force was twofold, Link told Wired.com: first, "to get that knowledge built back into the levee repairs so the same vulnerability wasn't built into the system again. The second was to come up with a 'risk assessment' looking forward."

In other words, to have a much better idea, grounded in solid science, of who might be killed or have their property destroyed in future Gulf Coast hurricanes.

The levees have long since been fixed and upgraded, but the risk assessment -- based on a mind-boggling 2 million equations -- is just now nearing completion. As the math came together beginning in 2007, the task force began publishing color-coded, interactive maps in an effort to show Gulf Coast residents what kind of danger they likely faced from hurricanes. The Google Earth-based maps can be found on the Army Corps website.

The ultimate "risk" map, the culmination of the task force's work representing tens of thousands of square miles from Florida to Texas, is slated for release this week.

Gathering the data for the levee upgrade and the risk maps took three years of back-breaking, mind-numbing effort by hundreds of team members using a surprising mix of high technology, old-fashioned detective work, trick psychology and, when all else failed, intuition. The results have revolutionized authorities' understanding of Gulf Coast hurricanes.

But whether the public will pay heed is another matter.

 

[MrBurns]

I've been trying to unsubscribe from this thread for weeks and it just doesnt work when you click the unsubscribe link in the notification email, any ideas please let me know.

 

[slim pickins]

marshall island hit by a wave is not the same as rising sea levels. If something gets swallowed up by 1 metre of rising seas, everything on earth must experience the same rise. Such isbthe nature of the ocean.

The last I saw even Venice, less then a metre above the sea is just like is was 400 years ago.

Again does anybody actually believe the oceans have risen even a fractional amount?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2008/06/hurricane_modeling?currentPage=all#

More bloody graphs.
I think I appreciated your arguments better when you were an elf helping Santa Claus.

Its weather mate.

The Sahara was the foodbowl of the Mediterranean peoples for years.

Times and climate changes.

Chaos is the algorithm, not these silly short term graphs.

Any more graphs and I will Mandelbrot you.

gg

 

[slim pickins]

The technologies for practical alternatives have been developed. Increased development in these directions have been shown (particularly in Denmark) to more that make up for the jobs lost on the fossil fuel side. Add to that the huge subsidies for example in the USA where the real cost of a gallon of fuel at the pump is US$16 a gallon.

Change has always in the past provided new opportunities and expands our overall options in all technologies.

Some above also mentioned bush fires. I understand that the emissions from wood fires is a good co2 used by plants to regenerate. That from oil and coal are toxic. In fact there is some argument that we would be better off warming our homes again with the good old wood fire.

Remakable! Have never heard such drivel in my life. Unsubsadised Unleaded is $16/barrel in USA! remarkable and false! Downright lie.

Crude is $1.50 per barrel to produce. The january contract was
$35/barrel recently. That's a nice markup that keeps friendly Arabs happy used to be 5 times more just 6 months ago.

One in the USA petrol is about $2.90 or so and that's after a large tax. In fact oil is taxed every step of tv

 

[basilio]

More bloody graphs.

Yes I can see what you mean Garpal. One simple graph shows how the intensity of hurricanes has steadily increased over the past 30 years as the ocean temperatures have increased. All totally predictable by global Warming model which shows increasing sea temperatures resulting in far stronger hurricanes which feed off the warm seas.

 

[slim pickins]

...........taxed every step of the way. And unleaded is still cheaper the Gatorade, and cheaper then milk.

As for co2 that nature burns being g good for the planet whilst co2 that industry burns being bad for the planet..... Well that is like all of your arguments. Meaningless drivel and cynical Rotten lies. Just like your ideology.

 

[2020hindsight]

Yes I can see what you mean Garpal. One simple graph shows how the intensity of hurricanes has steadily increased over the past 30 years as the ocean temperatures have increased. All totally predictable by global Warming model which shows increasing sea temperatures resulting in far stronger hurricanes which feed off the warm seas.

apologies bas - (you at least might appreciate this lol)
I forgot to add the link :-

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/hurricanes-and-climate-change.html

Earth's oceans contain various dynamic circulation patterns that influence the distribution of warm and cold water in upper ocean depths. These patterns, or oscillations, last a period of years or even decades. The most well known is the El Niño Southern Oscillation in the Pacific Ocean. The atmospheric conditions described above (e.g., humidity, low wind shear), along with ocean oscillations, are factors that correlate with more intense storms over the short term. (19)

Over the long term, however, study findings show that global warming is the overarching factor; initial findings suggest that over the period 1970 to 2004 warmer sea surface temperature is the major factor in the increase in category 4 to 5 hurricanes globally.(19, 20) A study examining the causes of above-average temperatures in the North Atlantic ocean in 2005 indicated about 0.3 °C of the increase arose from ocean oscillations, 0.2 °C from normal weather variations, and 0.45 °C from global warming. (21)

Diminished braking mechanism. Tropical cyclones generate strong winds that mix the ocean's surface waters, churning up colder water from below. (5) This colder water typically serves to weaken a storm; however, if deeper waters become too warm, this natural braking mechanism is diminished. Data from Hurricane Katrina indicate that while sea surface temperature was warm enough for maintaining the hurricane along its entire path, the storm significantly intensified when it hit the deep pools of warm water in the Gulf of Mexico. (22)

Protecting Coastal Communities

Given the loss of life and the huge costs of rebuilding after hurricanes, it is essential to do whatever we can to avoid dangerous warming and protect America's coastal communities for ourselves and our children. This will require a combination of aggressive emission reduction efforts, improved building codes, and the restoration of wetlands, dunes, and barrier islands that can serve as a buffer against rising sea levels and hazardous storm surges.

Brenda Ekwurzel (Union of Concerned Scientists) prepared this summary with helpful reviews by Kevin Trenberth (National Center for Atmospheric Research) and Kerry Emanuel (Massachusetts Institute of Technology). ©2006 Union of Concerned Scientists.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Yes I can see what you mean Garpal. One simple graph shows how the intensity of hurricanes has steadily increased over the past 30 years as the ocean temperatures have increased. All totally predictable by global Warming model which shows increasing sea temperatures resulting in far stronger hurricanes which feed off the warm seas.

If you had said that to the Spanish Armada you would have been natchos mate.

gg