China Bears

[Starcraftmazter]

^ That is a hell of a good video, thanks for sharing.


I will also comment that China cannot simply sell US treasuries (in any sizable quantities). This would cause it's currency to appreciate - which they do not want.

 

[notting]

I will also comment that China cannot simply sell US treasuries (in any sizable quantities). This would cause it's currency to appreciate - which they do not want.

They haven't wanted it till now. It maybe limited to think that might not change as it becomes convenient to create mega wealth from an appreciating currancy after they have bankrupted the rest of the world.
Then buy everything.

 

[Mr Z]

Out of bullets?

Dr. Jim Walker: Weakness in China Ahead””Translating into Commodity Bear Market

 

[Starcraftmazter]

They haven't wanted it till now. It maybe limited to think that might not change as it becomes convenient to create mega wealth from an appreciating currancy after they have bankrupted the rest of the world.
Then buy everything.

That does not make any sense. You do not want your currency to be strong, it's bad for exports and will create trade deficits.

Nor is it clear exactly what the RMB would be valued at if it was a free float, but it will be significantly higher causing China's exports to become uncompetitive (or at least much less competitive), which would result in the greatest imaginable turmoil for the country.

 

[notting]

the greatest imaginable turmoil for the country.

Yeah but you gotta remember that they don't really care about the people.
They have a massive army to protect themselves against there own peoples social unrest.

I know I'm getting very extreme at this point and that it is common thought that they wish to avoid social unrest. However, they have a history of being able to manage social unrest with fear and brutality a la Burma a few years ago(who were taking advice from China at the time on how to quell the unrest), China during the Olympics and not to mention Tiananmen Square where they machine gunned all the people, captured any innocent by stander that may have witnessed it(including people in flats near by), burned all the bodies and got on with their business.
Hopefully with all the mobile phone cameras etc these days they can no longer do this. But in a poor place where they bribe people to dob in anyone to who talks against the regime etc etc. They have a pretty powerful grip.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Yeah but you gotta remember that they don't really care about the people.

They have a massive army to protect themselves against there own peoples .

Soldiers are people too,

 

[Tysonboss1]

they may just piss someone off enough to get slapped hard for it,
.

And the one brave enough to slap, may leave with a bloody nose. No one is going to start china, People were scared of russia, china is going to be a real force compared to russia, no one would start military action against china no matter what the do, out side of open declaration of war.

 

[Mr Z]

The Coming China-India Conflict: Is War Inevitable?

There is a school of thought that say the US will provoke this conflict and fight China by proxy should push come to shove over resources.

I'm too stupid to know other than history teaches us that wars often occur in commodity cycles after trade tensions rise.

 

[Tysonboss1]

The Coming China-India Conflict: Is War Inevitable?

There is a school of thought that say the US will provoke this conflict and fight China by proxy should push come to shove over resources.

.

I doubt it, I seriously doubt it.

Both sides have so much to lose, there may be tension and some version of a cold war, but thats it.

 

[Mr Z]

There are a number of ways this could unfold that could lead to war. For example a serious economic crash in China could lead to civil unrest and it would not be the first time that a countries leadership has used an external threat to maintain internal power, it is a very tried and true method of uniting a country.

Every country that has gone to war has had a a lot to lose but they still did it. Look toward what the leadership has to lose first, like they say about the US the only unemployment number that really counts is Capitol Hill's, maybe that applies to Beijing equally. This is not cut and dry by any means and human history says if it gets tight we fight.

The money spent on military buildup in China is supposed to be double the publicly announced number. While it is not to US standards it still has the US very concerned at the motivation for such expenditure -------> you have to wonder, is it fear or is it ambition?

I'm not betting on it as an outcome but I will not discount it as an option.

 

[Mr Z]

John Stossel - Serious Crony Capitalism

This Stossel guy is a lot of fun Thanks Dowdy, I'd never seen him before.



Yey USA

This is the sort of crap that happens in China isn't it?

 

[disarray]

And the one brave enough to slap, may leave with a bloody nose. No one is going to start china, People were scared of russia, china is going to be a real force compared to russia, no one would start military action against china no matter what the do, out side of open declaration of war.

doesn't have to be conventional. stuxnet took out irans nuclear facilities without a shot being fired. cyber warfare can take out electricity grids, communications networks, industrial control systems, you name it. i would put the US cyber warfare division as light years ahead of any other national cyber division.

why bother getting into the mess of a conventional war when you can disable an enemy over the net? and anyway if push did come to shove, the US would beat the everliving **** out of china, i don't care what the sino-fanboys and their zerg rush appreciation society says.

 

[Mr Z]

why bother getting into the mess of a conventional war when you can disable an enemy over the net?

While it may be possible to do a number of things over the net disabling an enemy is a stretch, they are simply not THAT vulnerable.

and anyway if push did come to shove, the US would beat the everliving **** out of china, i don't care what the sino-fanboys and their zerg rush appreciation society says.

The US's history of cocking up small wars suggests that this is not the case, unless they get to use the nukes I'd not be betting that they would make a clean sweep of China.

 

[Mr Z]

doesn't have to be conventional. stuxnet took out irans nuclear facilities without a shot being fired. cyber warfare can take out electricity grids, communications networks, industrial control systems, you name it. i would put the US cyber warfare division as light years ahead of any other national cyber division.

As a guy who made his living in Internet security I'd like to know how you can be so sure of this?

 

[Tysonboss1]

the US would beat the everliving **** out of china.

neither side would be able to have a decisive victory over the other with out resorting to nuclear weapons.

The USA would never be able to land and hold ground inside china and have a true victory, and china would never beable to land and hold ground inside the USA.

It would be the worlds most expensive and earth shattering war and would have to end in a stale mate, It would not be worth it for either side.

What would they possibly have to gain.

 

[Tysonboss1]

their zerg rush appreciation society says.

If anything, When it comes to conventional warfare it is the USA that has used the Zerg rush, Think D-day and the push to berlin,

The Americans lost nearly 5 American soldiers for every German they killed in those Battles. Talk about a pyrrhic Victory. If they tried similar against the chinese, it would not end well.

 

[Mr Z]

What would they possibly have to gain.

The world has a population problem and the US has a nuclear solution. How is that for a dark thought? One thing for sure is that if it happens it will not be about what it is purported to be about and if you think to carefully about what it is purported to be about it will not make sense.

 

[Mr Z]

If they tried similar against the chinese, it would not end well.

If the Chinese where truly mobilized they would have to test their idea that a limited tactical war was winnable, I agree that they just couldn't manage it in traditional face off on the ground. It would just be too hard + I doubt that gaining territory would be the objective.

 

[disarray]

While it may be possible to do a number of things over the net disabling an enemy is a stretch, they are simply not THAT vulnerable.

and you know this how? if cyber weapons are capable of messing with the PLC controllers that manage centrifuge speeds inside a nuclear plant then they are capable of messing with all sorts of control systems. the future is here now believe it or not, its far beyond a case of "lol my windows box got hacked", we're talking electricity grids, power plants, transport systems, water management, telecommunications systems and any other piece of critical social infrastructure you can conceive of being vulnerable to engineered and targetted cyber weapons.

invade and occupy china lol

they don't need to invade, occupy or even land troops on the mainland. there's no point occupying china, just ruin their infrastructure and let it collapse under its seething mass of humanity. but the whole china vs US armchair general games are just theorycrafting and is purely a matter of opinion so lets not get into a 10 page diatribe ridden derail on what if's.

anyway the US is setting up the arab world for its next world war. the arab spring will lead to islamist takeovers throughout the middle east and voila, instant enemy! /tinfoil hat

As a guy who made his living in Internet security I'd like to know how you can be so sure of this?

start with this really good article and google the rest to your hearts content.

 

[choofer]

and you know this how? if cyber weapons are capable of messing with the PLC controllers that manage centrifuge speeds inside a nuclear plant then they are capable of messing with all sorts of control systems. the future is here now believe it or not, its far beyond a case of "lol my windows box got hacked", we're talking electricity grids, power plants, transport systems, water management, telecommunications systems and any other piece of critical social infrastructure you can conceive of being vulnerable to engineered and targetted cyber weapons.



they don't need to invade, occupy or even land troops on the mainland. there's no point occupying china, just ruin their infrastructure and let it collapse under its seething mass of humanity. but the whole china vs US armchair general games are just theorycrafting and is purely a matter of opinion so lets not get into a 10 page diatribe ridden derail on what if's.

anyway the US is setting up the arab world for its next world war. the arab spring will lead to islamist takeovers throughout the middle east and voila, instant enemy! /tinfoil hat



start with this really good article and google the rest to your hearts content.

Its not the plc that get stuffed but the SCADA controlling the PLC. Most SCADA on this scale is on UNIX not MICROCRAP.