Chaos in Australian Education

[SirRumpole]

It's been a long time since I went to school but even then unis had to give remedial maths classes because the schools just weren't teaching it well enough.

Things haven't changed much apparently:

Maths must be mandatory prerequisite for certain university degrees, experts say

Only 14 per cent of Australia's science university degrees require maths as a condition of entry, and experts say the country's future looks dire if students continue to turn their back on studying maths in high school.
Key points:

Government to recommend mid-level maths be mandatory pre-requisite for a range of university degrees
Experts say students going to university are unprepared for level of maths skills needed for courses
No NSW university enforces maths prerequisites on any science, technology, engineering or mathematics courses

The Federal Government will recommend that mid-level maths be a mandatory prerequisite for a range of university degrees, including commerce, engineering and science.

It is part of a 10-year plan to improve the nation's mathematics skills and drive innovation in Australia.

Experts said another issue is students coming to university completely unaware and unprepared for the level of maths needed for subjects they will be studying, once they have received entry into a science, technology, engineering or mathematics course.

The widespread absence of prerequisites is sending a message to Australian school communities that maths is not important.
Professor Geoff Prince, director of the Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute

Professor of Mathematics at the University of Western Australia, Cheryl Praeger, said Australia faces a dire future unless the recommendations are acted on.

"I'm afraid we really need students and graduates and workers with critical thinking who can think logically and solve our problems," Professor Praeger said.

"If we don't have that, perhaps our innovative industries won't be there; the nurses who need to be able to calculate the doses of drugs; maybe they'll just not be able to work as efficiently.

"It just goes through every part of our lives I think."

Professor Geoff Prince, the director of the Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute, said Australia was slipping behind the rest of the world when it came to maths.

He said Australian students were underperforming both internationally and locally.

"It's in areas like out-of-field teaching ”” so the percentages of our classes without a maths teacher in front of them ”” they have a teacher in front of them, but not a maths teacher in front of them," Professor Prince said.

"And on the prerequisite issue, it's the same sort of thing, our international colleagues can't believe it when we tell them we don't have prerequisites for university study, maths prerequisite internationally."
Students coming to university 'unprepared'

Professor Prince said introducing compulsory subjects for entry into university courses like commerce and engineering would be a crucial first step to improving Australia's maths performance.

If the kids don't take the appropriate maths courses at school, then they sort of come with their hands ties behind their backs.
Professor Praeger, University of Western Australia

"The widespread absence of prerequisites is sending a message to Australian school communities that maths is not important and that's having a significant detrimental effect on maths enrolments around the country, but also the resourcing of maths in schools around the country, so there's that system issue," he said.

The Australian Mathematical Sciences Institute said only 14 per cent of the nation's science degrees require maths as a condition of entry.

In NSW, no university enforces a maths prerequisite on any science, technology, engineering or mathematics courses, the institute said.
(my bolds)
Professor Praeger said that they had a "duty of care" to students.

"To make sure that when students come to university to study science, technology, engineering and mathematics, that they're properly prepared for it and that they're not coming without the subjects which they really need, which really hasn't been communicated to them that this is what they need for success," Professor Praeger said.

"If the kids don't take the appropriate maths courses at school, then they sort of come with their hands ties behind their backs and they have to make up some of those units at the university and it takes a longer time and they cut off their options."

Federal Education Minister Simon Birmingham will today launch the Federal Government's 10 year plan for the future of maths.

As well as prerequisites, the report recommends tackling Australia's shortage of specialised maths teachers and creating a national mathematics research centre.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-...niversity-degree-prerequisite-experts/7253286

 

[Muschu]

The place of tutors / tuition in education is interesting and probably overdone (particularly with very young kids) in some very competitive Asian countries.

I was involved in education for most of my career. I find the move to online and brief tutoring sessions at the point / time of need to be an excellent support to secondary and early tertiary students. Not a replacement for the classroom but a good adjunct at homework / assignment time when a student gets "stuck" - a very common situation.

To my knowledge the biggest provider in Australia is Yourtutor which is presently offering a free trial.

Based in Sydney but provides nationally.

(Nope, I don't work for them)

 

[Tink]

This safe school propaganda continues...
I cannot understand how people are quite happy to keep it going with everything that has surfaced about it.

Keep an anti bullying program for ALL children if need be, but this is going too far, in my view.

You’re Teaching Our Children What?

http://youreteachingourchildrenwhat.org/

 

[drsmith]

Changes to Safe Schools announced,

An independent review of the Safe Schools program found that a number of the resources had lessons and content not necessarily appropriate for all children, Education Minister Simon Birmingham said in Canberra on Friday.

"We will be making it clear that the program resources are fit for delivery in secondary school environments only."

Some of the gender diversity role-playing activities, that have been the focus of public criticism, will also be removed.

Certain materials, including OMG I'm Queer, will be restricted to one-on-one discussion between students and key qualified staff.

All third-party organisation branding will be removed from official resources.

The above is as reported from a media outlet.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/03/18/03/33/pm-receives-petition-against-safe-schools

 

[Tisme]

This safe school propaganda continues...
I cannot understand how people are quite happy to keep it going with everything that has surfaced about it.

Keep an anti bullying program for ALL children if need be, but this is going too far, in my view.

You’re Teaching Our Children What?

http://youreteachingourchildrenwhat.org/

Grooming kids for pedophiles and homosexuality. Lets hope there is peer pressure stronger than the brain washing Tink.

 

[SirRumpole]

There are many reasons that kids get bullied at school, physical appearance, nationality, race, social disadvantage, disability etc, so I don't see why one particular reason should be singled out as being more important.


There definately should be anti bullying programs in schools, but the message should be don't bully anyone for any reason, there is no reason to complicate the matter any further.

 

[nioka]

There are many reasons that kids get bullied at school, physical appearance, nationality, race, social disadvantage, disability etc, so I don't see why one particular reason should be singled out as being more important.


There defineatly should be anti bullying programs in schools, but the message should be don't bully anyone for any reason, there is no reason to complicate the matter any further.

In my day the bullies were usually in a higher class asserting their "Seniority" on a lower class. The ones you detailed were usually not bullied but ignored or rejected. Maybe todays rules say that to ignore or reject someone is being a bully.

 

[SirRumpole]

In my day the bullies were usually in a higher class asserting their "Seniority" on a lower class. The ones you detailed were usually not bullied but ignored or rejected. Maybe todays rules say that to ignore or reject someone is being a bully.

Maybe things have changed more than you think and kids have got meaner. I don't know, but there seems to be more child suicides than there was "in my day", or maybe they are more publicised, and with the advent of social media, it's probably easier to spread rumours about people.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

The real solution to bullying will never be addressed. It's usually the fault of the parents that a kid will have low self-worth, and it's kids with low self-worth who are targeted by bullies. The bullies themselves actually have the same issue as their victims, it's just that they have developed ways to temporarily combat it through displacement.

People just keep on having children and keep on grandly stuffing up the minds of a new generation. Whaddya gonna do?

Stopping bullying is necessary, but it doesn't come close to fixing the real issue. Maybe educating secondary students (>yr 10) would be the right approach. I think teenagers need to understand that the more they feel a need to have a child, the more likely they will be unfit to properly raise one. Maybe a questionnaire could be used to determine one's fitness to raise a child. Ideally you'd give such a test to adults as well, but adults wouldn't accept that. Oh no! Plenty of women in their 20's and 30's are having kids who simply won't be capable of providing basic needs for love and attention....yet they go ahead anyway.

 

[Muschu]

If you Google Professor Donna Cross and bullying [ or even "New approach to stop bullying in schools"] you will discover some informed and research based evidence about this topic.

Might interest some of you.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

If you Google Professor Donna Cross and bullying [ or even "New approach to stop bullying in schools"] you will discover some informed and research based evidence about this topic.

Might interest some of you.

From that source: "Our research has found that students who were covertly bullied, or who covertly bullied others, reported higher levels of loneliness at school, felt less safe at school and were more likely to experience difficulties such as emotional symptoms, conduct problems, inattention and peer relationship problems".

Yep, and what causes that loneliness, emotionality, inattention and difficulties in relating? The child's poor upbringing! Such symptoms don't just appear randomly or without reason.

Still, Cross' approach looks like a good remedial approach to poor parenting.

 

[SirRumpole]

From that source: "Our research has found that students who were covertly bullied, or who covertly bullied others, reported higher levels of loneliness at school, felt less safe at school and were more likely to experience difficulties such as emotional symptoms, conduct problems, inattention and peer relationship problems".

Yep, and what causes that loneliness, emotionality, inattention and difficulties in relating? The child's poor upbringing! Such symptoms don't just appear randomly or without reason.

Still, Cross' approach looks like a good remedial approach to poor parenting.

Kids get bullied for having disabilities, I wouldn't put that down to poor parenting, so you can't really make generalisations in this area.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Kids get bullied for having disabilities, I wouldn't put that down to poor parenting, so you can't really make generalisations in this area.

No one will be bullied if they have a healthy sense of self-worth. It just doesn't happen. Many disabled people have low self worth based on their tendency to equate their own worth with their ability (as we do - it's society's directive). Such people might get bullied. But Steven Payne is an example of someone who probably wouldn't get targeted because he doesn't buy into that equation. He's just very happy with how he is.

 

[Ijustnewit]

What a great public education system we have here in Tasmanian . After a 4 day public holiday fest the lazy public schools teachers down here decided it was all too much and are having a pupil free day. But drive past any public school and not one teacher is in sight , so they are basically having an extra days holiday at the public's and children's expense. To top that all off it is almost less than a week before they officially have another two week holiday period which yes includes more pupil free days to extend it even further. What a bunch of bludgers and no wonder we are the turning out to be the dumbest state in the country.
Tomorrow if they decide to return to work they will send the children off to swimming lessons for half the day , so there goes more vital education opportunities.

 

[Muschu]

What a great public education system we have here in Tasmanian . After a 4 day public holiday fest the lazy public schools teachers down here decided it was all too much and are having a pupil free day. But drive past any public school and not one teacher is in sight , so they are basically having an extra days holiday at the public's and children's expense. To top that all off it is almost less than a week before they officially have another two week holiday period which yes includes more pupil free days to extend it even further. What a bunch of bludgers and no wonder we are the turning out to be the dumbest state in the country.
Tomorrow if they decide to return to work they will send the children off to swimming lessons for half the day , so there goes more vital education opportunities.

I'm in WA.

Doesn't school for staff and children in Tasmania officially commence tomorrow?

Do all Tasmanian children start swimming lessons tomorrow? Do they all have half the day at the pool or go in shifts?

Do their parents want them to have swimming lessons? [Usually a School Board or Council participates in such a decision]

Are all teachers bludgers?

Most teachers I know work very long hours and participate in a great deal of professional development in their own time as well as on the nominated days when they can work together, as a staff, on whole school data analysis / target setting / planning / pedagogies.

But I guess you know a lot of teachers too.... And no doubt you work a lot harder than they do....

Oh by the way: I was a Principal and now work as a consultant in public education. I exchanged work emails with Principals right through Easter... And do so most weekends.. I must remember to tell them that they are bludgers.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Rudd/Gillard spent 2.4 BILLION $ getting a laptop/tablet for every school kid.

Research suggests they are nothing more than a distraction in the classroom. So in other words R/G spent that enormous sum of money without any formal research to back it up.

Those two have got to go down as the worst political leaders in Aus history. Cash handouts, school building program cost++ blow outs, roof insultion **** up. Unreal.

 

[Muschu]

Rudd/Gillard spent 2.4 BILLION $ getting a laptop/tablet for every school kid.

Research suggests they are nothing more than a distraction in the classroom. So in other words R/G spent that enormous sum of money without any formal research to back it up.

Those two have got to go down as the worst political leaders in Aus history. Cash handouts, school building program cost++ blow outs, roof insultion **** up. Unreal.

This is not an unfair comment about technology in schools but I'd suggest opinions are quite divided. I'd be interested to know what research you are referring to...

My own views on this are "on the fence"... What is not good is the discrepancy between schools in terms of financial "opportunities". Some now have a BYOD policy whereas in lower income areas this is simply unachievable -

There is a lack of equity, even in the Government system. I find this troubling.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

This is not an unfair comment about technology in schools but I'd suggest opinions are quite divided. I'd be interested to know what research you are referring to...

My own views on this are "on the fence"... What is not good is the discrepancy between schools in terms of financial "opportunities". Some now have a BYOD policy whereas in lower income areas this is simply unachievable -

There is a lack of equity, even in the Government system. I find this troubling.

Link in smh article http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...ps--and-improve-learning-20151022-gkfwjw.html

So many politicians have this childish, populist, follow-the-crowd way of behaving. They totally lack wisdom, insight, common sense and a long term view. It drives me insane.

 

[SirRumpole]

Link in smh article http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...ps--and-improve-learning-20151022-gkfwjw.html

So many politicians have this childish, populist, follow-the-crowd way of behaving. They totally lack wisdom, insight, common sense and a long term view. It drives me insane.

The value of being able to program computers, as opposed to using someone elses program is very high. That where the IT geniuses will come from, those who can program properly.

To do this and produce worthwhile results you need to know the principles of the subject you are programming for, whether it be economics, physics, maths or anything else. Then you need to be able to think logically and string these principles together in the correct order. Then you need to validate your data and test your output for reasonableness.

All these requirements contribute to a better understanding of the subject so if they are used properly computers are a valuable tool for any subject I can think of except PE. Maybe they just are not being used correctly in schools.

 

[Muschu]

The value of being able to program computers, as opposed to using someone elses program is very high. That where the IT geniuses will come from, those who can program properly.

To do this and produce worthwhile results you need to know the principles of the subject you are programming for, whether it be economics, physics, maths or anything else. Then you need to be able to think logically and string these principles together in the correct order. Then you need to validate your data and test your output for reasonableness.

All these requirements contribute to a better understanding of the subject so if they are used properly computers are a valuable tool for any subject I can think of except PE. Maybe they just are not being used correctly in schools.

Again, not unfair.... Every contemporary Principal and teacher I know refers to technology as a tool and it's integration across learning areas. Not as a learning area in its own right.

I think, again, it is a matter of "extent". We all need to learn how to learn and technology is unavoidable in that regard. But we also need to learn how to think for ourselves - inclusive of literacy and numeracy.

I anticipate this will be an ongoing debate as we struggle to work out how best to manage a world that continues to change - with technology being a major change issue.... Goodness knows where technology will be 10, 20, 50 or 100 years from know. Interesting to contemplate but by then an issue for generations beyond mine.