Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Cashless society

I have been in business now for over 30 years and I never thought I would say this but I would be so happy for cashless to happen tomorrow. The cost of cash has become more then it is worth, time spent banking cash, waiting to acquire change, theft, teaching new employees how to add up to $1. Have no idea what the school system is teaching but it is not basic knowledge of adding up money.

The move that surprised me the most was the age group I never thought would embrace tap have taken to it like a duck to water. The elderly.

If the opportunity does arise I will open up a new venture and I will go cashless from the get go.

Also from my very small window of the world the only way to catch all the under the table dealing is through the GST.
Drop wage tax and up the GST to whatever level is needed.
What no EFTPOS working great an early night!
@bsnews Happy for you that cashless is your thing. Not for Me or She though. We are contractors and not working from a shop so going to the bank for whatever reason is incorporated into the shopping whenever that is done.
 
I have been in business now for over 30 years and I never thought I would say this but I would be so happy for cashless to happen tomorrow. The cost of cash has become more then it is worth, time spent banking cash, waiting to acquire change, theft, teaching new employees how to add up to $1. Have no idea what the school system is teaching but it is not basic knowledge of adding up money.

The move that surprised me the most was the age group I never thought would embrace tap have taken to it like a duck to water. The elderly.

If the opportunity does arise I will open up a new venture and I will go cashless from the get go.

Also from my very small window of the world the only way to catch all the under the table dealing is through the GST.
Drop wage tax and up the GST to whatever level is needed.
What no EFTPOS working great an early night!

I've only been in business for 15 years, and I have no issue taking any form of payment.

Up until a few years ago I was banking weekly, it didn't bother me, I enjoyed getting out and having a break, also got some satisfaction from handling big wads of cash.

Now I bank once a month, electronic transactions has become the dominant form of payment. Cash is about 20% of all payments.

I have customers that ask if we take cash, they appear a bit embarrassed about it. I remind them that cash is still legal tender and we accept all forms of payment that involves money transferring to the business. The smile on their faces is worth bottling.

My business employs 5 people, revenue is quite high.

Send any cash that you can't be bothered banking my way :)
 
I've only been in business for 15 years, and I have no issue taking any form of payment.

Up until a few years ago I was banking weekly, it didn't bother me, I enjoyed getting out and having a break, also got some satisfaction from handling big wads of cash.

Now I bank once a month, electronic transactions has become the dominant form of payment. Cash is about 20% of all payments.

I have customers that ask if we take cash, they appear a bit embarrassed about it. I remind them that cash is still legal tender and we accept all forms of payment that involves money transferring to the business. The smile on their faces is worth bottling.

My business employs 5 people, revenue is quite high.

Send any cash that you can't be bothered banking my way :)
It has nothing to do with being bothered. It has to do with the cost now of handling cash. I also have people asking if they can use cash and in this business cash would never be refused but it's horses for courses, cash could never not be taken. I employee 4 people and I have to bank daily due to cash flow, when I have to wait sometimes up the 45 minutes in a bank queue to obtain change that is a cost I am not happy to pay.
 
It has nothing to do with being bothered. It has to do with the cost now of handling cash. I also have people asking if they can use cash and in this business cash would never be refused but it's horses for courses, cash could never not be taken. I employee 4 people and I have to bank daily due to cash flow, when I have to wait sometimes up the 45 minutes in a bank queue to obtain change that is a cost I am not happy to pay.

You must be handling many hundreds of thousands of dollars more than I, because there is no added cost to my business with the handling of cash.

The labour to count the cash is part of the working week. My bank branch is very efficient, the longest that I have been in the bank is 15 minutes, but lets say it is 20 minutes, it is a drop in the ocean compared to the stress of the eftpos or internet going down. And as I mentioned, I only bank at best once each month these days.

If you are banking daily your business is one of the few that still has a majority turnover of cash, there are not many like that anymore. Which doesn't make sense to me. If the majority of your customers are paying with cash, requiring you to bank daily, why would you want to kill the goose?

Up until a few years ago I was banking weekly, now I bank every 4 to 8 weeks depending on how much cash and bills have accumulated. The cash is stored in a secure lock box until I decide it is time to bank. Cash went from 80% of turnover to 20% at best.

No one seems to take into account the cost and time of electronic banking; electricity, paper rolls, time for the transaction especially when it is a phone transaction or trouble with the card, issues with the the banking systems or EFTPOS, Internet, etc.

Both have their benefits and drawbacks, which changes with the size of the business.
 
Comparing one business experience to another is in some ways pointless.
A retail business (say a milk bar or cafe) will have hundreds of small transactions a day.
Two blokes who work as subbies on building sites will have maybe one per week.
The experiences with any sort of payments, cash vouchers, EFTPOS or via monthly accounts will be entirely different.
Mick
 
Comparing one business experience to another is in some ways pointless.
A retail business (say a milk bar or cafe) will have hundreds of small transactions a day.
Two blokes who work as subbies on building sites will have maybe one per week.
The experiences with any sort of payments, cash vouchers, EFTPOS or via monthly accounts will be entirely different.
Mick

Who is comparing businesses?

We're comparing cash and banking experiences.
 
Looks like cash will be here a lot longer than the doomsayers want -

The RBA says Australians made 30.2 million ATM withdrawals in January – the highest number in 12 months, and more than $9 billion was taken out, the largest amount since mid-2020.
This cash comeback was “quite a spike”, said RateCity research director Sally Tindall.
“The statistics show how popular cash is among many Australians,” she said.
Ms Tindall said many banks had been reducing ATMs and branches, with some removing cash withdrawals from some shopfronts, but she expected cash to circulate for decades.
“Cash is on the decline but we are still taking $9bn out of cash ATMs a month,” she said.
Cultures and traditions continued around cash, and parents still enjoyed using it to teach their children money basics, Ms Tindall said.
“When technology fails, and we have seen that time and time again, cash is a fantastic and very reliable backup,” she said.
“It’s nostalgia and there is a level of practicality – it helps people feel safe.
“In time cash may disappear completely, but the trajectory is a lot longer than some people may have you think.”

Cash won’t disappear for decades, experts say as ATM withdrawals up

Almost three-quarters of Australians are worried about shifting to a cashless world, and the idea of cash nostalgia is impacting many.
As banks and businesses reduce access to cash, new research found 71 per cent of people are concerned about going completely cashless – especially Baby Boomers, regional and lower-income Australians – while separate official statistics suggest cash could be making a comeback.

Research by payments technology company Waave found 41 per cent of Australians are “extremely concerned” about going cashless. Two-thirds say it will exclude people and exacerbate economic inequality, 58 per cent worry about paying more fees, and 42 per cent say they will miss the chance to handle money.

Waave CEO Ben Zyl said this “cash nostalgia” reflected the fact that people liked the feel of money and tended to spend less when paying in cash.

“The psychology around cash is unique,” he said.

db2473919272f324ac36770ed08c0472.jpgAustralians still love to count their cash. Picture: iStock

“People fear losing the sense of control and visibility over what they actually have.

“It would be a sad moment when a child needs to leave their BSB and account details under their pillow for the tooth fairy.”

Waave’s research found the people most concerned about disappearing cash were Baby Boomers (82 per cent), regional Australians (77 per cent) and households with incomes below $100,000 (75 per cent), while 46 per cent of Generation Z were not concerned.

Mr Zyl said the financial services industry needed to build trust in digital payments as cash acceptance diminished, but he did not expect cash to disappear altogether.

Reserve Bank of Australia figures show cash’s share of total payments dropped from almost 40 per cent in 2007 to less than 10 per cent between in 2022, although its latest ATM withdrawals statistics suggest cash use remains resilient.

The RBA says Australians made 30.2 million ATM withdrawals in January – the highest number in 12 months, and more than $9 billion was taken out, the largest amount since mid-2020.

This cash comeback was “quite a spike”, said RateCity research director Sally Tindall.

“The statistics show how popular cash is among many Australians,” she said.

Ms Tindall said many banks had been reducing ATMs and branches, with some removing cash withdrawals from some shopfronts, but she expected cash to circulate for decades.

“Cash is on the decline but we are still taking $9bn out of cash ATMs a month,” she said.

Cultures and traditions continued around cash, and parents still enjoyed using it to teach their children money basics, Ms Tindall said.

“When technology fails, and we have seen that time and time again, cash is a fantastic and very reliable backup,” she said.

“It’s nostalgia and there is a level of practicality – it helps people feel safe.

“In time cash may disappear completely, but the trajectory is a lot longer than some people may have you think.”

4e966d59dbb95a2c6dd022ead3538cb4.jpgRateCity’s Sally Tindall says cash will linger for longer. Picture: Tim Hunter.

Cash Welcome campaign spokesman Jason Bryce said the latest RBA figures showed many Australians were choosing to return to cash.

“Everyone is concerned about their privacy, their safety from online scams and the uncertainty caused by regular payment system outages,” he said.

“The increasing number of cash withdrawals is being made at a decreasing number of bank-owned ATMs, contradicting the commonly repeated bank claim that branches and ATM closures are caused by changing consumer demands.”

Waave’s Mr Zyl does not expect a complete cash comeback.

“Australians are shopping online more and we look for the most convenient options to pay, hence the sharp increase in mobile-tap payments,” he said.

“Cash acceptance will diminish as the cost of handling cash will outstrip the need to accept cash as a means of payment.”
 
Looks like cash will be here a lot longer than the doomsayers want -

The RBA says Australians made 30.2 million ATM withdrawals in January – the highest number in 12 months, and more than $9 billion was taken out, the largest amount since mid-2020.
This cash comeback was “quite a spike”, said RateCity research director Sally Tindall.
“The statistics show how popular cash is among many Australians,” she said.
Ms Tindall said many banks had been reducing ATMs and branches, with some removing cash withdrawals from some shopfronts, but she expected cash to circulate for decades.
“Cash is on the decline but we are still taking $9bn out of cash ATMs a month,” she said.
Cultures and traditions continued around cash, and parents still enjoyed using it to teach their children money basics, Ms Tindall said.
“When technology fails, and we have seen that time and time again, cash is a fantastic and very reliable backup,” she said.
“It’s nostalgia and there is a level of practicality – it helps people feel safe.
“In time cash may disappear completely, but the trajectory is a lot longer than some people may have you think.”
A cashless society is almost like comparing KFC refresher towels in a scientific experiment to see how long they last without falling apart.
 
Really enjoying reading the various pros and cons about the Cashless realm.

One thing that I'd like to point out is the amount of dollars, numbered in the billions, yes with a B, lost to card scams and fraud.

As per the ABS and in ABC article posted 20 Mar 2024, reads in part:

Australian Bureau of Statistics reveal details of ‘sizeable’ increase in card fraud as Australians lose $2.2 billion in 2023​

Australians lost an estimated $2.2 billion to card fraud last year, according to new data released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The ABS report released on Wednesday also revealed 1.8 million people (8.7 per cent) experienced card fraud in 2022-23, an increase on the previous year (8.1 per cent).

A further 514,300 (2.5 per cent) experienced some kind of scam, and just under 200,000 (1.0 per cent) were victims of identity theft.

Card fraud, according to the report, involves using “credit, debit, or EFTPOS card details “to make purchases or withdraw cash without the account owner’s permission”.

The number of Australians affected has climbed from 6.9 per cent in 2020-21 to 8.7 per cent in 2022-23, with people aged 45-54 the most frequently affected.
Lots to glean from the stats, including:
“The other thing interesting is who’s most at risk of card fraud,” he said.


“It tends to be older people, 35-64 year olds, those in a married relationship, and those in a higher income bracket.
I'm in agreeance with:
“Personally I think it’s going to be the number of cards you’re holding that increases your likelihood of card fraud.”

On a personal note, I had lunch with a work collegue (a fellow director) at a local club yesterday. Arriving at the bar at the same time, being served at the same time, collegue paid via iPhone, I paid with cash.
Collegue was still trying to pay via the iPhone long after I'd found a table for the two of us.

Whilst relaxing and seated, sipping on my paid for by cash beverage, I watched this quirk in the matrix unfold with quiet amusement.

After some head scratching and looks of puzzlement on both sides, including redoing the transaction more than once and restarting of said iPhone, the sub $5 payment finally "went through."

After joining me at the table, my collegue was in no hurry to proceed to the food ordering counter to again, take out the iPhone for use in payment.
"Would you like me to lend you some cash?" I quibbed.

When we did order our food, paying by iPhone was still the slower option. Unlock phone, double check Bluetooth is on, open up the banking app, unlock the banking app, place phone on EFTPOS terminal, wait for the transaction to be approved, obtain receipt and then, stop stressing.

Me, I paid with the exact amount in cash, $15 member price for one of the special's. Super fast, super easy, no stress...

Now don't get me wrong, cashless has it's uses e.g., BPay and the like, but allow me to say this in good fun. Ah the joys of cashless...:roflmao:
 
I received notification from a bank that in June there will be a new Govt regulation that states that no credit card can be used for gambling.

So that means that all gambling must be paid for in cash, putting Lotto in is going to be chaos for the first few weeks, pity the poor newsagents.

It also highlights just how invasive our Govt has become, if we are to ban gambling via CCs then it would imply that alcohol and Cigarettes must be next, as they do far more damage to society than gambling

I would also expect junk food to follow, this would need to be labelled or supermarket chaos would ensue, can I put rolled oats on my credit card ? What about fruit loops? Coca Cola?

An invasion of privacy and a nightmare for retailers just to satisfy smug, weak willed Know all, Know nothing ego maniacs
 
I received notification from a bank that in June there will be a new Govt regulation that states that no credit card can be used for gambling.

So that means that all gambling must be paid for in cash, putting Lotto in is going to be chaos for the first few weeks, pity the poor newsagents.

It also highlights just how invasive our Govt has become, if we are to ban gambling via CCs then it would imply that alcohol and Cigarettes must be next, as they do far more damage to society than gambling

I would also expect junk food to follow, this would need to be labelled or supermarket chaos would ensue, can I put rolled oats on my credit card ? What about fruit loops? Coca Cola?

An invasion of privacy and a nightmare for retailers just to satisfy smug, weak willed Know all, Know nothing ego maniacs
Does that include debit cards?
 
I received notification from a bank that in June there will be a new Govt regulation that states that no credit card can be used for gambling.

So that means that all gambling must be paid for in cash, putting Lotto in is going to be chaos for the first few weeks, pity the poor newsagents.

It also highlights just how invasive our Govt has become, if we are to ban gambling via CCs then it would imply that alcohol and Cigarettes must be next, as they do far more damage to society than gambling

I would also expect junk food to follow, this would need to be labelled or supermarket chaos would ensue, can I put rolled oats on my credit card ? What about fruit loops? Coca Cola?

An invasion of privacy and a nightmare for retailers just to satisfy smug, weak willed Know all, Know nothing ego maniacs
@macca Last sentence. I would prefer near on useless bum polishers, trying to justify their existence,
 
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