Can Spain Be Saved?

[Mrmagoo]

This just in after close of US markets...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-billion-in-state-backing-to-restructure.html

So, a little over a week ago, Spain's Finance Minister is stating categorically that ALL the banks in Spain will require less than 15 billion euros of public funds to bail them out.

Now, a few days later ONE big bank is putting it's hands out for 19 billion euros. One can only imagine what the total cost of Spain's banking bailout might really be....let alone the bailouts for the rest of the economy.

So, the question is, given the looming scale of this, can Spain be saved?



P.S. I guess we could stop being so selfish and loan them our World's Greatest Treasurer for a year or two? It's only fair...

19 billion is bugger all.

I suppose denying minimum wage by 45 cents and hour will make the companies rich enough to pay it off, lmao !

 

[Mrmagoo]

I was over there this time last year.

Frankly they are stuffed for at least a generation.
Their boom has completely busted.
Friends have 2 beach villa's paid €390,000
for one and €279,000 for the other.
They literally cannot sell them at ANY price.
There are similar properties to € 60,000 and can't be sold.
There are square mies of buildings half built with cranes and
Materials left on site and people walked away.

Corruption in government was so rife that most properties are not built to any
Building code.
The roaring employment of he boom has completely gone
Shopping centers are like big hippos with one or two food shops and 150 vacant shops.
Really un nerving to walk through.

I travelled by Wynabago and saw massive permanent caravan communities.

haha. Empty buildings, caravan communities ? Free hand of the market my ass.

 

[Uncle Festivus]

You first have to be a man and say pretty please with sugar on top.

No, no, all is good now, Spain won't need to do an Oliver as the market will come to the party and give them money now.



Hang on, just checked 10Y again - oh dear.......

 

[Uncle Festivus]

About due for another "unlimited" speech followed by absolutely nothing substantial?

Rhetoric it goes down, reality it goes up? Which will win?

(Reuters) - Ten-year Spanish government bond yields extended their rise on Monday, driven by pressure ahead of this week's auctions and lingering doubts over when, or if, Spain will seek financial aid.

Spain's request for help is a precondition to the European Central Bank's bond buying program, but the government has been reluctant to do so, especially after funding costs have fallen to more manageable levels.

(Reuters) - Car sales in Spain fell dramatically in the first two weeks of September following a hike in value-added tax, car retailers association Ganvam said on Monday, the first sign the tax rise is further dampening consumer spending in a weakened economy.

The number of cars sold tumbled 27.6 percent year-on-year to 12,300 units in the first fortnight of the month after the price of the average car rose by 650 euros on Sept. 1, according to Ganvam.

Spain's cash-strapped government increased VAT on most items to 21 percent as of September as part of a drive to slash 65 billion euros ($82 billion) from the public deficit by the end of 2014.

"These figures confirm our fears that the crisis in the sector is becoming more severe," Ganvam President Juan Antonio Sanchez said.

 

[Tyler Durden]

FURIOUS Spaniards who say banks cheated them of their savings have taken to the streets demanding that the bailed-out lenders give them their money back.

"Thieves! Where is our money?" bellowed a crowd of some 1000 protesters, many of them elderly, outside the central bank in Madrid before marching on the offices of Bankia, the ruined finance giant.

The protesters say Bankia told them it was putting their money in secure savings products but actually sold them "preferential shares" as it scrambled to raise funds after the financial crisis started in 2008.

Now that Bankia and other lenders have collapsed and had to be rescued with funds from Spain's European partners, customers stand to lose a big chunk of their savings.

The banking consumers' group ADICAE, which has brought legal action against Bankia, planned similar demonstrations in more than 20 towns on Saturday.

Its president Manuel Pardos said in a statement the customers were "victims of a massive fraud" and were now being subjected to "illegal imposed losses".

The European Union on Wednesday gave a green light for the payment of the first slice of the rescue aid, some 37 billion euros ($A46 billion), for Bankia and three other Spanish banks.

To meet the conditions demanded by Brussels, Bankia said holders of the so-called "preferentials" would be repaid in shares worth only 61 per cent of the value of the money they put in the bank.

"They want to take away 40 per cent from us," said one protester, Paloma, 59, who put 25,000 ($A31,000) into preferential shares, being told she would get the money back after five years.

"I spent 25 years saving a little each day and now when I need it they won't give it to me," said Paloma, who asked not to be identified by her surname.

Spanish banks were brought low by the collapse of a construction boom in 2008 that threw millions into unemployment and poverty. Spain is deep in recession, with one in four workers unemployed.

http://www.news.com.au/business/bre...iards-tell-banks/story-e6frfkur-1226528182189

 

[Uncle Festivus]

Spain has been saved?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Doesn't look like things are going to get any better soon...

Spain's unemployment rate surged past 27 per cent to a new record in the first quarter of 2013, official data showed as a deep recession ravaged the eurozone's fourth-largest economy.

A record unemployment number also emerged in neighbouring France, the eurozone's second-biggest economy, as the labour ministry said jobseekers in France surged by 36,900 in March to 3.224 million, beating a record set in 1997.

Spain's new figure put its jobless rate just below that of bailed-out Greece -- the highest in the European Union at 27.2 per cent.

Around a thousand people, mostly youths, gathered Thursday evening near the Spanish parliament in Madrid in response to a call by a hardline protest movement for demonstrators to "Besiege Congress" indefinitely to force the government to quit.

The protesters chanted "We are not afraid" as they marched from three different points in the centre of Madrid before converging in a square in front of parliament which was protected by police barricades.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/worl...ment-tops-27-fresh-record-20130426-2ii06.html

 

[YMI]

Doesn't look like things are going to get any better soon...

I wonder how they pay their living expenses. Impossible that they’re all on the dole, is it?

 

[tech/a]

I wonder how they pay their living expenses. Impossible that they’re all on the dole, is it?

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

 

[FlyingFox]

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

+1.

 

[jancha]

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

Cheers.... I've put in a request to centre link for a pay rise to cover the trip.

 

[sval62]

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

If you are going to comment on a thread can you make sure that your comment
even closely resembles the true facts.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Spain

 

[McLovin]

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

Err...Spain absolutely does have the dole. You just need to have worked before you can start claiming it and it doesn't continue indefinitely.

 

[village idiot]

and if you couldnt get the dole in Spain you could just move to any of the other EU countries and claim welfare there, Uk is quite popular...

 

[DCD]

Cheers.... I've put in a request to centre link for a pay rise to cover the trip.

...

 

[Boggo]

If you are going to comment on a thread can you make sure that your comment
even closely resembles the true facts.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Spain

Maybe you should read it again.

In most countries in Europe you must work to earn benefits, the concept of second and third generation dole bludgers who have never worked is a pommy and Aussie phenomenon where natural selection is being defeated by social security.


From the page you link to...

Requirements
In order to receive a contributory benefit an employee must have contributed at least 360 days in the last 6 years, be registered with the employment authorities as available for work.
Benefit Amount and duration

As a rule the benefit is paid for 1/3 of the period that the unemployed person has contributed. As a minimum the benefit is paid for 4 months and a maximum of 24 months is permitted.[5] The benefit amount is calculated on the basis of the last 180 days salary with both a minimum and a maximum amount applicable. The base amount is supplemented according to the specific family situation of the unemployed person with a supplement for those with children under 26 or handicapped- The unemployed receive 70% of their reference salary (subject to the ceiling)during the initial 6 months falling to 50% thereafter.

 

[YMI]

From the page you link to...

... The unemployed receive 70% of their reference salary (subject to the ceiling)during the initial 6 months falling to 50% thereafter.

That's not very clear explained. Sounds like if you have earned anything for a while, then you’ll receive at least 50% of that for the rest of your life (but for example not more than 1087.21 Euro – probably per month – for a single person).

I talked to a friend from Spain and she said whatever they get is up to a maximum of three years and then it’s over. A very difficult situation for affected people but that explains how the system can still function despite the 27% unemployment.

 

[clowboy]

Dole?

What dole.
Spain doesn't have a dole system
If your un employed you line up for food
Vouchers.

Aussies don't know how damned lucky they are.
Why do refugees come here?

Go travel a bit and you'll never complain about
You home again.

I can testify to that.....not only are we lucky we are a first world country, we are also a lucky first world country.

 

[Aussiejeff]

I can testify to that.....not only are we lucky we are a first world country, we are also a lucky first world country.

Agreed......for now.....might be fun to revisit this quote in 10 years time after the Mining Boom has gone bust.

By the same token, where will Spain's economy be by then, one wonders?

 

[chops_a_must]

Agreed......for now.....might be fun to revisit this quote in 10 years time after the Mining Boom has gone bust.

By the same token, where will Spain's economy be by then, one wonders?

Some parts of Spain are going ok.

Areas where they have been smashed by cheap African food, wont come back. But that has been a long term impact throughout Europe.

Regions such as Catalonia and the Basque region where they have much greater exposure to the outside world, will eventually be fine. But they are seriously hampered by being a part of Spain.

However, manufacturing is experiencing a resurgence in the north of Spain, and several big name companies have moved from the Netherlands and Denmark to Spain. Which is also fueling nationalist tensions.

Spanish speaking immigrants are going back to Latin America and elsewhere. Australian universities are experiencing large increases of spanish speaking students.

The biggest problem is that Spain's youngest and brightest are leaving.

They just have to have a different currency. Because they just cannot compete as the high quality food bowl for Northern Europe.

It's forcing them to make massive changes to their education system as well. Formerly, their debates were around teaching regional languages before castillan and vice versa. But now, they know they can't be as insular.

Anyway, from paradise to parados, in a big hurry.

At least the prostitutes are awesome and cheap.