Brexit OUT of EU: What happens now?

[sptrawler]

Winning elections tends to give leaders authority over the factions. Boris will get what he wants.

Boris will get what he wants?
Winning with an 80 seat majority, should tell his Party something, like most of the people liked what they heard.
Hopefully they take notice this time, unlike the last time, which was the Brexit referendum.
This seems to be the over riding logic these days, it isn't about what the majority want, it is about the rest thinking the majority are just stupid.

 

[PZ99]

Well he'll get mostly what he wants - probably have to pay extra for that scotch

 

[sptrawler]

In the case of the UK I think the Conservatives won for the same reason as they did in NSW - simply because the alternatives were hilarious. I don't think it has anything to do with the working class having some latent love of Conservative values in their DNA - it just doesn't scan.
IMO.

Well Tony Blair doesn't agree that it is just because of poor presentation.
https://www.theage.com.au/world/eur...-labour-s-massive-defeat-20191218-p53lav.html
From the article:
Blair said that under Corbyn, "the takeover of the Labour Party by the far left turned it into a glorified protest movement, with cult trimmings, utterly incapable of being a credible government".

But Blair said the vote against socialism, and Labour's "wish-list" manifesto filled with unbelievable promises of "everything for free" including fibre broadband connections to everyone's house.

"Any fool can promise everything for free," Blair said.

"But the people weren't fooled. They know life isn't like that. And the loading in of ‘free broadband’ run by government was the final confirmation of incredibility.

The blue collar workers have had a gutfull, they know who pays for all this crap.
What is the old saying? Socialism is great, untill you run out of other peoples money to spend.

 

[PZ99]

Yeah, OK. Other politicians will state theirs views obviously. Some might say the real catalyst was Brexit. Nothing from Blair suggests blue collar workers are conservatives and that's the hang up.

If Sarah Hanson Young took over the Labor Party here we would get the same result.
It doesn't mean we've all suddenly dabbled with Tory shit

I just think it's too simplistic to stereotype blue collar workers as affiliates for any persuasion.

Frankly, it's an insult to their intelligence.

 

[wayneL]

Yeah, OK. Other politicians will state theirs views obviously. Some might say the real catalyst was Brexit. Nothing from Blair suggests blue collar workers are conservatives and that's the hang up.

If Sarah Hanson Young took over the Labor Party here we would get the same result.
It doesn't mean we've all suddenly dabbled with Tory shit

I just think it's too simplistic to stereotype blue collar workers as affiliates for any persuasion.

Frankly, it's an insult to their intelligence.

Culturally, the working class is actually the most "conservative" section society these days.... And they know they are being sold down the river by the purported "labour movement".

If the conservative party doesn't betray their trust, they will become long-term conservative voters, believe you me. But I readily acknowledge that the conservatives have the capacity to completely f£#@ that up.

 

[PZ99]

Culturally, the working class is actually the most "conservative" section society these days.... And they know they are being sold down the river by the purported "labour movement".

If the conservative party doesn't betray their trust, they will become long-term conservative voters, believe you me. But I readily acknowledge that the conservatives have the capacity to completely f£#@ that up.

What name do we give them when they eventually get around to voting Labour ?

Cultural Marxists ?

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah, OK. Other politicians will state theirs views obviously. Some might say the real catalyst was Brexit. Nothing from Blair suggests blue collar workers are conservatives and that's the hang up.

If Sarah Hanson Young took over the Labor Party here we would get the same result.
It doesn't mean we've all suddenly dabbled with Tory shit

I just think it's too simplistic to stereotype blue collar workers as affiliates for any persuasion.

Frankly, it's an insult to their intelligence.

No one is saying the workers are taking on conservative values, they are saying that workers are disagreeing with what Labour are presenting.
The conservatives are getting the vote by default, because they are seen as the lesser of two evils, not because the workers like them.

 

[PZ99]

No one is saying the workers are taking on conservative values

wayneL is saying the workers are taking on conservative values

they are saying that workers are disagreeing with what Labour are presenting.

I'm saying that workers are disagreeing with what Labour are presenting.

I think the term I used was "totally poor presentation"

I agree with "The conservatives are getting the vote by default, because they are seen as the lesser of two evils, not because the workers like them."

That's exactly what I've saying during this entire debate.

 

[wayneL]

What name do we give them when they eventually get around to voting Labour ?

Cultural Marxists ?

Well that would depend on whether the Labour party is culturally Marxist at the time. Thus far, the working class has rejected such ludicrousness.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm saying that workers are disagreeing with what Labour are presenting.

I think the term I used was "totally poor presentation"

I agree with "The conservatives are getting the vote by default, because they are seen as the lesser of two evils, not because the workers like them."

That's exactly what I've saying during this entire debate.

My apologies, to me ' poor presentation' is the way something is delivered.

When I said, they aren't happy with what Labour are presenting, I was meaning the content of what was presented, not the way it was being presented.

Obviously a misunderstanding.

 

[PZ99]

Well that would depend on whether the Labour party is culturally Marxist at the time. Thus far, the working class has rejected such ludicrousness.

What happens if they don't know the Labour party is culturally Marxist ?

Most people on the street wouldn't even know the majority of the polices taken to the elections.

Better off just calling them the apolitical working class. That is what they are.

 

[wayneL]

What happens if they don't know the Labour party is culturally Marxist ?

Most people on the street wouldn't even know the majority of the polices taken to the elections.

Better off just calling them the apolitical working class. That is what they are.

Why did they just kick Labor and Labour to the foetid gutter of political purgatory then?

 

[PZ99]

Why did they just kick Labor and Labour to the foetid gutter of political purgatory then?

Because they didn't like Bill Shorten. Because they didn't like Jeremy Corbyn.

Because both campaigns were atrocious, hostile and in the case of here, because Clive Palmer ran a very expensive scare campaign and directed his preferences to the Liberal Party...

Ask yourself this... how did the Australian Conservatives go ?

 

[Smurf1976]

Because they didn't like Bill Shorten. Because they didn't like Jeremy Corbyn.

I’m pretty sure policy had a lot to do with it too. At least that’s what I’ve heard others saying at the time.

 

[PZ99]

I’m pretty sure policy had a lot to do with it too. At least that’s what I’ve heard others saying at the time.

Any policies in particular ?

I work two factory jobs and each has over a thousand workers on each shift. Ordinary everyday working people. The vast majority don't give two hoots about politics.

 

[sptrawler]

Any policies in particular ?

I work two factory jobs and each has over a thousand workers on each shift. Ordinary everyday working people. The vast majority don't give two hoots about politics.

That actually sums it up perfectly, most say very little about their political leanings and can't be bothered arguing about politics, that is why the demographics of the actual vote says so much.
When affluent areas are voting Labour and working areas are voting Conservative, it says a lot more than if both demographics are voting the same way.
If both demographic areas are moving toward the Conservatives then that would indicate a poor campaign by Labour, but as happened here the affluent areas had a swing toward Labour and the working areas had a swing toward Conservative.
This would indicate the affluent are receptive to the labour platform and the working areas not so impressed.
Which policies swung the voters, is anyones guess.
Just my opinion.

 

[wayneL]

Because they didn't like Bill Shorten. Because they didn't like Jeremy Corbyn.

Because both campaigns were atrocious, hostile and in the case of here, because Clive Palmer ran a very expensive scare campaign and directed his preferences to the Liberal Party...

Ask yourself this... how did the Australian Conservatives go ?

If you believe the left mate, Johnson is literally Hitler, so come on now quit bullshiting.

How did the Australian Conserva.... err, I mean Australian Catholics go? About as well as the the Australian Socialist Workers Party, or whatever nom de plume they go by these days

 

[PZ99]

If you believe the left mate, Johnson is literally Hitler, so come on now quit bullshiting.

How did the Australian Conserva.... err, I mean Australian Catholics go? About as well as the the Australian Socialist Workers Party, or whatever nom de plume they go by these days

I don't believe the left either mate... is that the impetus of your bullshit?

If you believe the right... the Liberal Party here are too far to the left so HTF does that make the working class conservative ?

 

[wayneL]

I don't believe the left either mate... is that the impetus of your bullshit?

If you believe the right... the Liberal Party here are too far to the left so HTF does that make the working class conservative ?

Look up the meaning of "conservative', bruh.

 

[PZ99]

Look up the meaning of "conservative', bruh.

Let's take a shortcut... resistance to change - such as SSM. How did that vote work out?