Brexit OUT of EU: What happens now?

[moXJO]

As you say "Not always". Insurance companies don't always entertain claims either.
But it's better than nothing - and nothing is what the remaining 90% of workers have.
No wonder the economy is going down the toilet.

My union has negotiated better conditions from my employer for 28 years.

Of course, non union members get the same benefits despite playing no role in attaining them.

IMV that's the norm, not the exception.

I think a lot of workers might not know the process to go through. But its not hard to make a complaint this day and age.

I dealt with a lot of unions round Sydney and nsw. Some really good guys and some really really bad ones.

 

[chiff]

Pity that Kipling and Chuchill are not alive.They could see that England could once again demonstrate its moral superiority- unencumbered by Europe.

 

[Humid]

I did jobs for a few of the top rankers in the unions. And I know what a few of the shtbags got up to.

Never had a wage job. I was taught by family and always had my own company.

Unions barely look after their own members let alone anyone else. Theres a lot of those stories of "unions screwed me" as well. Unions won't go against the big companies that feed em. Hows those membership numbers going?

How’s your zero income over xmas going?

 

[sptrawler]

As you say "Not always". Insurance companies don't always entertain claims either.
But it's better than nothing - and nothing is what the remaining 90% of workers have.
No wonder the economy is going down the toilet.

My union has negotiated better conditions from my employer for 28 years.

Of course, non union members get the same benefits despite playing no role in attaining them.

IMV that's the norm, not the exception.

I found over my working career, that unions are great and I was always a fully paid up member.
I found what ruins them, is what usually ruins many organisations, some of the people who get into management to further their own ends.
It happens in all walks of life, someone sees the opportunity to either brown nose to the boss, or further their political ambitions and see becoming a union rep as a way of getting an audience with management.
It doesn't happen at all workplaces, but I generally worked in large organisations and it happened a lot as there were many reps covering a lot of areas.
It does fall back to the apathy of the workers for not standing for election, but that doesn't change the issue, IMO usually the bully with a self interest won the day backed by his or her cronies.
There is and always will be a place for unions, but the sooner they go back to their prime function of putting the worker first, the sooner they will start and increase their numbers.
They need to disassociate themselves from the political parties and focus on the workplace and furthering the aspirations and outcomes for workers and their working conditions.
Not trying to ensure that one party has its blind support, because the political parties themselves are morphing into other than what they originally were.
With the advent of the internet and social media, the people are well connected and a free flow of information is happening and by the results World wide the working class aren't happy with Labor, which by the defacto relationship says they aren't happy with the union.
So something has to change, or Labor and the unions will continue to slide, which will end in tears for the worker IMO.
The unions keep the conservatives honest, no one is keeping Labor on track, because they are no longer the working mans party ATM they have been hijacked and lost their way.
Just my opinion.

 

[sptrawler]

With regard Brexit and the U.K election, from my understanding, talking to my truck driver cousin in North England this article sums it up pretty well.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/the...r-hate-the-working-class-20191217-p53kq3.html
From the article:
Whenever working-class outsiders complain about how an immigration or economic policy blights their lives the response of the enlightened insiders is to brand them either “racist” or “stupid”.

This is the judgment of those who make or champion enlightened policies but don’t live in the frontline suburbs where they land. It is not their jobs, wages or communities that are asked to endure wrenching change.

It is evident across the Western world that there is now a chasm dividing inner-city internationalists and the working-class nationalists who sustain their lifestyles. Many in wealthy city sanctums are now so disconnected from their sources of food, wealth and energy that they are voting against them or seeking to ban them.

This is an increasingly bitter battle between the winners and losers from globalisation. The Economist has reported that Chinese import competition caused 20 per cent of the losses in manufacturing jobs in America and whole regions went into permanent decline.


Loading
Most of the “creative destruction” that followed the international opening of markets was in the jobs lost by blue-collar men. That also helped destroy the lives of their wives and children. Manual workers across the West now face fewer jobs and falling real wages, so is it any wonder their anger is rising.

These are not privileged white men. They were the ones that emptied your garbage, dealt with your sewerage, built your machines, dug in dangerous mines, grew your food, lived hard but proud lives and had the privilege of fighting and dying on the frontline whenever we called a war.

On the other side of the divide are the city-based knowledge industry workers who are enjoying all the benefits of free-trade and the free movement of immigrants without having to bother with any of the downsides.

This divide was something the British Labour Party, with its deep roots in working communities, should have been able to recognise. Its historic project is to defend working people, so it should have pitched its tent with them and sought to address their very real concerns. And at their heart was a scream of rage against imperious, unreachable EU bureaucrats and a fear that the free movement of labour was an existential threat.


Loading
But Labour was torn between its traditional base and the woke progressive class that had invaded it.

That had grown into a legion when the party allowed supporters who paid just £3 to vote in leadership ballots.

This crowd came with all the verities of the new age and all their many prejudices. At base they really hate the working class. They hate their jobs, their cars, their sports, their music and their lifestyles.

So Labour chose as leader Jeremy Corbyn, a gold-plated, copper-bottomed, ocean-going Trot from central casting. And the working class really hates Trots. It was a marriage made in hell.

The British election saw an abject rejection of the party of the workers by the workers. It turned out they weren’t suffering regret. They were enraged. Maybe it’s time to try to understand why, because a real workers' revolution is sweeping the globe.

Well it looks as though the penny may be dropping, the whole article IMO, is well worth a read.

 

[Knobby22]

Yes I read that. Chris Ulman is a very good and respected writer.

 

[wayneL]

Good article @sptrawler thanks.

I've always said that change will come from the working class, they are the ones with the least to lose and the most cajones.

If the conservatives have any brains whatsoever they will respect the opportunity that has been given them.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes I read that. Chris Ulman is a very good and respected writer.

I was just amazed, at how well he captured the reality of what is happening. IMO

 

[sptrawler]

Good article @sptrawler thanks.

I've always said that change will come from the working class, they are the ones with the least to lose and the most cajones.

If the conservatives have any brains whatsoever they will respect the opportunity that has been given them.

This is the real problem, the last thing the worker needs is a weak Labor Party, they really need to get back to basics.
When the workers prefer a conservative party over a Labor Party, it shows how far Labor has drifted from its origins.

 

[wayneL]

This is the real problem, the last thing the worker needs is a weak Labor Party, they really need to get back to basics.
When the workers prefer a conservative party over a Labor Party, it shows how far Labor has drifted from its origins.

The working class are the new, actual conservatives.

Think about it.

 

[sptrawler]

The working class are the new, actual conservatives.

Think about it.

That is because the conservatives are reducing the load on the worker, and the other parties are suggesting change that will lose jobs and cost heaps, the worker is smart enough to know who will pay for it.

 

[wayneL]

That is because the conservatives are reducing the load on the worker, and the other parties are suggesting change that will lose jobs and cost heaps, the worker is smart enough to know who will pay for it.

That is of course very true, but I was thinking more particularly the cultural conservatives.

But I stress your point is absolutely spot on.

 

[Smurf1976]

I dealt with a lot of unions round Sydney and nsw. Some really good guys and some really really bad ones.

How unions operate really depends on the individuals involved and it's a situation where both extremes tend to turn up.

I was kicked out of a union once for defusing industrial action. The unions wanted marches down the street waving flags and all that. Smurf just explained the problem to management, pointed to independent sources which would verify it, and management promptly came back "ah yes I see the point being made, there's a problem yes, let's sort this out...." and that was it. Workers got what they wanted albeit by means of a bureaucratic process but they got the desired outcome in full, work carried on uninterrupted, union chap was fuming and suffice to say I was promptly removed as a member.

They're anything from brilliant to pure evil depending on the individuals involved.

Same with managers. Anything from genius to outright destruction is possible depending on the individuals involved, their skills and most critically their personality. That's the critical one, personality, since whilst skills can be learned by anyone with reasoanble intelligence and the right outlook on life it's very hard to turn a moron into someone decent and that personality failing inevitably wrecks the business in due course.

 

[moXJO]

How’s your zero income over xmas going?

I've never been on a weekly wage, well except for apprenticeship and that was under family so it was all over the place.
Took money when I needed it.
Plenty of friends that are similar.

 

[Humid]

I've never been on a weekly wage, well except for apprenticeship and that was under family so it was all over the place.
Took money when I needed it.
Plenty of friends that are similar.

Hence your constant bagging of unions
Even what you earn is based on union agreements

 

[moXJO]

Hence your constant bagging of unions
Even what you earn is based on union agreements

I've had a birds eye view of what elements in unions did. Hence my constant bagging. No problem with them fighting for better conditions for workers.

Yeah, libs got you tax cuts if you want to play that game.

I'm not anti union I'm anti corrupt practices or over balance. And I notice many that sht canned folau and backed big business are the ones preaching to me about unions and workers rights in other threads.
The only consistency seems to be political ideology.

 

[PZ99]

Nothing to do with political ideology @moXJO

Just won't tolerate some fundamentalist God Botherer shoving their views down my throat.

Linking Folau with unions and workers is tenuous at best - as is the theory the Conservatives make life easier for workers - still chuckling at that one

 

[sptrawler]

Nothing to do with political ideology @moXJO

Just won't tolerate some fundamentalist God Botherer shoving their views down my throat.

Linking Folau with unions and workers is tenuous at best - as is the theory the Conservatives make life easier for workers - still chuckling at that one

I think moxjo was indicating some who champion the unions right to defend workers, were among those who agreed with Rugby Australia's right to sack Folau, which in reality would be a major contradiction of beliefs. IMO

 

[PZ99]

I think moxjo was indicating some who champion the unions right to defend workers, were among those who agreed with Rugby Australia's right to sack Folau, which in reality would be a major contradiction of beliefs. IMO

That's how I interpreted his comment as well. But IMV, there's no connection.

I'd highly doubt Folau was a union member - trade union that is

Workers gets sacked for online behaviour all the time - it's nothing new and it has zip to do with political persuasion. People might even criticise a union for defending a worker in that sort of case. They get criticised for everything else.

One would wonder what a post Brexit UK would be like if the Conservatives adopt the same over regulation on unions as they do in this country.

 

[moXJO]

Nothing to do with political ideology @moXJO

Just won't tolerate some fundamentalist God Botherer shoving their views down my throat.

Linking Folau with unions and workers is tenuous at best - as is the theory the Conservatives make life easier for workers - still chuckling at that one

Legal side is his rights were infringed by big business. It doesn't matter if he is a fundamentalist or not.
Pretty simple.