BNB - Babcock & Brown

Green08 said:

When it is falling so dramatically why don't the regulators put it in a trading halt to stop (if there where) Margin calls etc.

I was always a little perplexed that the announcement would do anything good unless the new guy has Bullwinkle type qualities - watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat. Or for the Jesus types fish and bread from the basket For those religious people do you blame God on this one or do you look at it as Divine Cleansing?

never Held , and Never Will Never liked their business model

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They replaced Phil Green with Elizabeth Nosworthy, who managed to, coincidentally, lead Commander Communications (CDR) all the way down into receivership just a few weeks ago. I see a good future for her at BNB. :bricks1:

That's a good point but I was under the understanding that regardless of up or down if the % was significant then a halt would be called. Yes I agree it is a sad thing for people involved with previous companies which have gone down I feel especially for the elderly.

My brother is a builder a very fair and honest one would do the do thing for people as a gift - no pay. He rang me today and said he is nearly bankrupt as all the work up the coast has been cancelled by the elderly who wanted improve , extend their dream home and with the shock of super statements have far less money and have to cancel to survive.

So It is going to effect many many people in walks of life we can't imagine. All I was asking and quite rightly is who do people blame in these circumstances.

Personally today I would put financial advisers up there with car sales men. They are out for themselves.

M34N said:

They replaced Phil Green with Elizabeth Nosworthy, who managed to, coincidentally, lead Commander Communications (CDR) all the way down into receivership just a few weeks ago. I see a good future for her at BNB. :bricks1:

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Yes, the 7.30 Report tonight drew attention to the number of companies with which Ms Nosworthy has been associated which have failed woefully.
She is also in charge of the much touted Qld Water Commission, god help all South East Queenslanders. Why doesn't someone just damn well get rid of her?
No chance for BNB to pick itself up when they fail to replace the people who have been so implicated in its downfall.

Julia said:

Yes, the 7.30 Report tonight drew attention to the number of companies with which Ms Nosworthy has been associated which have failed woefully.
She is also in charge of the much touted Qld Water Commission, god help all South East Queenslanders. Why doesn't someone just damn well get rid of her?
No chance for BNB to pick itself up when they fail to replace the people who have been so implicated in its downfall.

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Couldn't have said it better myself! Speaking of getting rid of people,......those ex-BNB leaders should be given public floggings.....performance bonuses handed back for distribution to poor shareholders. Watch them pop up again in 10 years or less.....you know the story.

I have just learned from Lateline Business that Phil Green doesn't have an office in the building, but he's still on a years' wage.

What is that all about?

Pseudo re-shuffle imo. The new management doesn't seem that promising. Not very slick. It's a bit of a worry, we really don't want a financial institution in Australia to go bust. It won't do the sharemarket any good.

3MT said:

Just curious where they get the 1.24 from? Be wiser for them to just say avoid or no valuation possible. Wonder who is buying BNB.

Brings me to another argument, now that "the herd" is clearly saying stay away from this sinking ship, is it worthwhile to punt against them? maybe with $2500 bnb could be better than blackjack.

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well if it were me ..I would sit and wait for it to find some sort of support, go sideways a bit before even contemplating buying this stock......there doesn't appear to be any reason to buy this right now....IMO

Aussiest said:

We've all made silly mistakes. Heck, i've made silly mistakes following my own advice :.

I think the thing is to check the investor magazine recommendations against the real results. Eg, watch the stocks for a few months to see if these 'gurus' were indeed right. And, anyway, i think it's a big smelly conspiracy... Magazine authors buy in and of course give it a good recommendation.

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The only thing to do with investor magazines is use them to start a fire.......certainly don't follow their suggestions...The same goes for broker recommendations.....If you trade on these recommendations you are doomed to fail......

I admit that to buy BNB would be a leap of faith at the moment.

It got me thinking back to 2001 when QBE dropped from $12 down to $3 in a month, and then spent 12 months trying to get above $7. However buyers at the end of 2002 had a dream run through to 2007 where it topped out at $35.

So you never say never. But it does look shaky for BNB.

I held off the sell button too long. Too much faith in hearing some good news, but it never came. I won't buy this stock again. Luckily I am young and can work a second job. 70 hours a week for the next year for me. Consider how you can recatch your money before you buy this. Not that it can't go up again...

Logique said:

I admit that to buy BNB would be a leap of faith at the moment.

It got me thinking back to 2001 when QBE dropped from $12 down to $3 in a month, and then spent 12 months trying to get above $7. However buyers at the end of 2002 had a dream run through to 2007 where it topped out at $35.

So you never say never. But it does look shaky for BNB.

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Commercial and retail insurance is a different business.

It's a very profitable business where you take the money first, you invest
and grow that money even more then when the claims comes you pay it out.
so you always have money on your hand.
and I'm sure you have insurance you know the drill, if you claim too often they increase your premium and so that they always have a profitable margin.

BNB business is where you load up lot and lot of cheap debt and hope the debt stay cheap forever and buy and buy increasingly inflated asset to spin off fund and hope that asset generate enough income to cover debt and if it doesn't revalue the damn asset and call that profit.

when cost of debt rise and asset price drop = Game over.
That the sort of business you want to get involve in?

Jeez, its down about 10% in the first few minutes after open.

gg

Not enough characters

Its retraced to be just down 8% at 4 minutes

gg

only 7% down at 4 minutes

only 4 % at 5 minutes

jeez this must be what its like to daytrade.

only 1% down at 6 minutes.

Time for a cuppa.

gg

Good bounce. Parcel at 1030 or 11am would have dont better though. Should see some short covering for a while.

Spot on, Julia and Grace. Ms Nosworthy's efforts in SE Qld running the water commission have on occasions made her look ridiculous. There was one time when she wouldn't face the press to justify one of her decisions and she sent her deputy along. She was filmed watching on, trying to hide behind a pillar; not an easy thing to do for a woman of her size. I weep for BNB shareholders.

Calliope said:

Spot on, Julia and Grace. Ms Nosworthy's efforts in SE Qld running the water commission have on occasions made her look ridiculous. There was one time when she wouldn't face the press to justify one of her decisions and she sent her deputy along. She was filmed watching on, trying to hide behind a pillar; not an easy thing to do for a woman of her size. I weep for BNB shareholders.

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LOL A+ Post...Would read again.

BNB reminds me exactly of AFG...everyone riding on potluck and hoping for 1 - 2 point gains. Cept when the thing goes into a TH and it gaps down 50%...bye bye capital!

There's a lot of articles about BNB around at the moment. I thought I'd post this one here. It gives a very different perspective about Uncle Phil and his deceased brother, Uncle Max.

It's from Thursday's Crikey (subscription service):

25 . The Green brothers: a tale of greed and envy
Adam Schwab writes:


On 23 March 1998, low-profile Melbourne tax-lawyer, Max Green, was found dead in a luxury Phnom Penh hotel. Green was later discovered to have been the perpetrator of a $42 million fraud and was believed to have been murdered by an investor in his Ponzi scheme.

Green had devised what appeared to be a tax minimization ruse, which ostensibly involved leasing low-cost equipment to CityLink. Green even went to the trouble of counterfeiting CityLink invoices as part of the fraud which essentially involved taking money from investors and stealing it.

One of the more surprising aspects of Max Green’s conduct was that he didn’t really need the money. Green was married to Louise Baron -- daughter of former BRW Rich 200 member, rag-trader Nathan Barron. Barron was worth upwards of $100 million at the time of his death a few years ago.

So if money wasn’t a prime motivation -- why would a softly-spoken tax lawyer commit such a blatant fraud? Many suspect that Max Green was motivated by more than merely money, instead, he yearned for the respect achieved by his Sydney-based brother, Phil. According to reports, Max Green had used his ill-gotten lucre to invest in Asian gem mines.

Phil Green, like Max, was a tax accountant and lawyer. Green was a senior manager at the now defunct Arthur Andersen. In 1984 Green joined US-based Babcock & Brown, then, a small firm which specialized in aircraft leasing. From there Babcock grew into a real estate and infrastructure firm, which later specialized in creaming fees from satellites.

While Phil was building his empire at Babcock, his less successful brother Max was working in the United States at a small fashion jewelry company called Emma Page. Max Green later returned to Melbourne and re-commenced his legal career at the small firm of Gary Shugg. A few years later Shugg was found guilty of misusing clients’ funds (he blamed Green) and the firm collapsed.

Max Green later moved to another minor firm called Coleman Aroni and commenced his massive and ultimately ill-fated fraud. (Ironically, it has been alleged that the idea for Max Green’s tax-minimization scheme involving low cost equipment purchases came from Phil, himself a tax lawyer).

We wonder what Max Green would be thinking if he was around to read The Australian last night, with John Durie revealing that Phil Green had relinquished his role as CEO of Babcock & Brown. Only last year, Phil Green was worth more than $500 million. Now, he has been pushed from his role as CEO and his wealth is probably less than $50 million, subject to debt.

Unlike Max, Phil Green’s corporate death has been a slow one, Babcock scrip gradually retreated from a high of $33 prior to the credit crunch as the company continued to tell investors all was well. On Tuesday, Babcock threw in the towel and requested a suspension with its scrip trading at only $3.45 -- down almost 90 percent from its highs. The company floated in late 2004 at $5.00 per share.

Green is expected to remain a non-executive director of Babcock, however, given his role in its downfall (virtually all Babcock shareholders would be significantly down on their investment) it would appear his long term future at the firm and in Sydney business circles would be in serious doubt.

Julia said:

Yes, the 7.30 Report tonight drew attention to the number of companies with which Ms Nosworthy has been associated which have failed woefully.
She is also in charge of the much touted Qld Water Commission, god help all South East Queenslanders. Why doesn't someone just damn well get rid of her?
No chance for BNB to pick itself up when they fail to replace the people who have been so implicated in its downfall.

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The only thing investors still holding into BNB can hope for now is a takeover offer, or that the people holding shorts close up and push the price up and give people a chance to sell out.

How can anyone confidently invest into this company with a woman like this as its chairperson? It's even worse that she is selected by BNB to lead the company, shows you how badly mis-managed and incompetent BNB really is. Her history alone is enough to ring alarm bells, but as they say, history repeats itself, and I'm sure with Nosworthy there won't be an exception!

Why anyone would hold this company is beyond me

I very rarely follow fundamental opinion but could not fail to notice in the Weekend Australian that Babcock and Brown are "Lenders exposed to millions as Tricom grates with Danes."

It would appear from the article that bnb in their wisdom bailed out Tricom earlier this year.

governance governance governance or the lack of it !!!!!

Not a wise investment.

This cookie looks set to crumble.

I couldn't be bothered posting a chart.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

I very rarely follow fundamental opinion but could not fail to notice in the Weekend Australian that Babcock and Brown are "Lenders exposed to millions as Tricom grates with Danes."

It would appear from the article that bnb in their wisdom bailed out Tricom earlier this year.

governance governance governance or the lack of it !!!!!

Not a wise investment.

This cookie looks set to crumble.

I couldn't be bothered posting a chart.

gg

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More damning comment , this from Alan Kohler,

http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-sickening-display-HQS6C?opendocument&src=rss

gg

A little insider trading information

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/ait?s=BNB.AX

Have to wonder if the Directors past and present are up and down like hot cakes have to wonder why the public can put ANY faith in the B-------!

Dear Liz is a fine example of Major Position on the Board with

9/4/08 Elizabeth Nosworthy 2,460 Direct Shares Buy 104,210 (Bit low for her new position on the board seeing as James had @7 million and was off loading) See the above link - Still holding faith anyone?????

She did do a sell just before - They don't seem to have alot of faith in them selves (take the Paparazzi cameras for the local papers away). Seem confused poor dears

Course they could have loads more but this is the best source I know of for activity the public shouldn't know if they didn't look! But of course it always 'seems' better when they issue stock amounst themselves for God Knows What!

Green08 said:

A little insider trading information

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/ait?s=BNB.AX

Have to wonder if the Directors past and present are up and down like hot cakes have to wonder why the public can put ANY faith in the B-------!

Dear Liz is a fine example of Major Position on the Board with

9/4/08 Elizabeth Nosworthy 2,460 Direct Shares Buy 104,210 (Bit low for her new position on the board seeing as James had @7 million and was off loading) See the above link - Still holding faith anyone?????

She did do a sell just before - They don't seem to have alot of faith in them selves (take the Paparazzi cameras for the local papers away). Seem confused poor dears

Course they could have loads more but this is the best source I know of for activity the public shouldn't know if they didn't look! But of course it always 'seems' better when they issue stock amounst themselves for God Knows What!

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Having closed down commander ecently and fouled up a queensland government department she may be some indication of what the ones p[ulling the shots i.e. banks are planning yp go