Bitcoin - Peer to Peer currency

[aster]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Any indirect way to speculate on Bitcoins, like through an ETF perhaps?

 

[Tim_54321]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Any indirect way to speculate on Bitcoins, like through an ETF perhaps?

Thought I'd see if ASF had a bitcoin thread, seems that I was the one that started it!

I don't know of an indirect way to speculate on it, why not just buy some?

 

[aster]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Thought I'd see if ASF had a bitcoin thread, seems that I was the one that started it!

I don't know of an indirect way to speculate on it, why not just buy some?

Two reasons really. Firstly I don't want to keep them at some exchange as those tend to disappear or get hacked, and secondly I don't want to hold them "physically" either as that is also risky. Kind of like keeping cash under the pillow

I have found some CFDs though which could be interesting. Seems like the only way to get into the game without having to deal with the technicalities of holding onto Bitcoins...

 

[Tim_54321]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Two reasons really. Firstly I don't want to keep them at some exchange as those tend to disappear or get hacked, and secondly I don't want to hold them "physically" either as that is also risky. Kind of like keeping cash under the pillow

I have found some CFDs though which could be interesting. Seems like the only way to get into the game without having to deal with the technicalities of holding onto Bitcoins...

There's a program called bitcoin armoury where you create 'paper' wallet offline. You print it out and put it in a safe place. You then send the bitcoins you bought to its address. It never needs to touch the internet but you can import the wallet back into armoury when you want to use them.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Is it possible to buy Tulips at Interflora with bitcoins?

gg

 

[Joules MM1]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Is it possible to buy Tulips at Interflora with bitcoins?

gg

amen!

http://soberlook.com/2013/11/bitcoin-goes-vertical-in-speculative.html

.... utter nonsense. This is speculation - pure and simple....

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

amen!

http://soberlook.com/2013/11/bitcoin-goes-vertical-in-speculative.html

View attachment 55371

That's ridiculous...to think of the money i could of made. a BC was worth about 7$ when i discovered them.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

That's ridiculous...to think of the money i could of made. a BC was worth about 7$ when i discovered them.

yeh i bought a tiny amount at $3, and sold at around $100

 

[aster]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Bitcoin jumping around today, as "low" as $530 and as high as $900.

 

[Conza88]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Bit of a side note; but for those interested in the issue of Bitcoins - Jeffrey Tucker, and Konrad Graf will be in Brisbane for the 2013 Australian Mises Seminar on 30th Nov ”” 1st December from 9-5pm at the Emporium Hotel.

Bitcoin will be discussed. Bitcoin: Practical and business aspects, and Bitcoin: Technical and economic aspects.

 

[doctorj]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Bitcoin jumping around today, as "low" as $530 and as high as $900.

My personal view is that Bitcoin is binary – it’s either worth a lot and significantly more than it is today, or its worth nothing at all. US money supply (M2) is around USD 10.5 trillion and therefore if all of that was converted into Bitcoin, assuming all 21 million bitcoins exist, the implied price would be around USD 0.5 million per bitcoin. And there’s a lot of M2 out there that isn’t USD. That’s if you buy the Bitcoin story.

For me, there are many reasons why you probably shouldn’t. I think a currency that is finite is analogous to a deflationary economy and therefore their use is discouraged, there are an unlimited number of Bitcoin substitutes because there are no barriers to entry, there are significant barriers to any serious companies adopting Bitcoin in any meaningful way (even if you ignore regulation), trust is a huge issue and the whole system is reliant on encryption that to my understanding cannot easily be upgraded and may one day be defeated.

I’ve explored it in much greater detail on my blog. In short, I think it’s nothing more than a means of settling illegal transactions, a vehicle for speculation or a protest against banks and the governments that support them. I really hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s only a matter of time before the bubble busts.

 

[db94]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

My personal view is that Bitcoin is binary – it’s either worth a lot and significantly more than it is today, or its worth nothing at all. US money supply (M2) is around USD 10.5 trillion and therefore if all of that was converted into Bitcoin, assuming all 21 million bitcoins exist, the implied price would be around USD 0.5 million per bitcoin. And there’s a lot of M2 out there that isn’t USD. That’s if you buy the Bitcoin story.

For me, there are many reasons why you probably shouldn’t. I think a currency that is finite is analogous to a deflationary economy and therefore their use is discouraged, there are an unlimited number of Bitcoin substitutes because there are no barriers to entry, there are significant barriers to any serious companies adopting Bitcoin in any meaningful way (even if you ignore regulation), trust is a huge issue and the whole system is reliant on encryption that to my understanding cannot easily be upgraded and may one day be defeated.

I’ve explored it in much greater detail on my blog. In short, I think it’s nothing more than a means of settling illegal transactions, a vehicle for speculation or a protest against banks and the governments that support them. I really hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s only a matter of time before the bubble busts.

IMO it has already burst. Check out this chart and how a bubble usually plays out. Currently at the bull trap

 

[Tim_54321]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

IMO it has already burst. Check out this chart and how a bubble usually plays out. Currently at the bull trap

View attachment 55419

That's all well and good but we are on the third bitcoin 'bubble' and each makes vastly higher highs than the last. The same diagram has been compared to all of them. True bubbles never go close to retaining their pre burst highs.

 

[db94]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

That's all well and good but we are on the third bitcoin 'bubble' and each makes vastly higher highs than the last. The same diagram has been compared to all of them. True bubbles never go close to retaining their pre burst highs.

didnnt play out as i predicted. I now feel that if internet currency catches on we have something similar to the dotcom bubble. The only threat I see to bitcoin is other coins. There are a few currencies that are MUCH cheaper and actually have faster transaction speeds (<30 seconds) than bitcoin (1 day), so if it does catch on perhaps they too will boom.

 

[pacestick]

Bitcoin

BITCOIN BACK ABOVE $1,000.00


http://www.afr.com/p/world/bitcoins_exceed_us_again_XvSfeJelNIT53jeDmJhRvO

Olga Kharif

The price of Bitcoins *surpassed $US1000 ($1110) again on the Mt.Gox exchange after Zynga said it would start accepting the virtual *currency for some online social games as the digital money becomes more widely used.

Bitcoins, which exist as software and aren’t controlled by any country or banking authority, surged on Monday to about $US1119 on the exchange, one of several markets where they are traded for US dollars, euros and other currencies.

Bitcoins first crossed the $US1000 threshold in late November and reached a record $US1238 on Mt.Gox on December 4, but then plummeted to as low as $US640 after China’s largest online market for the virtual currency stopped accepting deposits. The digital currency has rebounded as more merchants accept Bitcoins for everything from Gummi bears to smartphones on the internet. Zynga is the latest *merchant to accept Bitcoins, which can be used to buy virtual items in games.

“Bitcoin has been remarkably *resilient in the face of all the bad news out of China,” said Nicholas Colas, chief market strategist at ConvergEx Group.

“The strength shows a continued interest, which is a very positive sign.”

Bitcoins were trading for about $US13 a year ago before wider acceptance and speculators boosted prices.

The rally gained steam in October, after *regulators shut down the Silk Road hidden website, where people could obtain guns, drugs and other illicit goods using Bitcoins. That *generated optimism the digital money would become more widely used. In November, law enforcement and securities agencies said in *US Senate hearings that Bitcoins could be a *legitimate means of exchange. Dani Dudeck, a spokeswoman for San Francisco-based Zynga, confirmed a post introducing a plan to test Bitcoin payments by the company on the *reddit.com community website.

Consumers will be able to pay via the *BitPay payments service for players of FarmVille 2, CastleVille and other games, Zynga said.

“We look forward to hearing from our players about the Bitcoin test so we can continue in our efforts to provide the best possible gaming experience,” Zynga said.

Victoria’s Secret stores have signed up with gyft, an app that lets users buy gift cards with Bitcoins.

Overstock.com planned to start accepting Bitcoins in the northern *summer, chief executive Patrick Byrne said last month.

“We think there’s an underserved part of the market that wants to use Bitcoins and can’t,” Mr Byrne said.

The company needs time before it starts accepting bitcoins in order to figure out how to process bitcoin transactions and to hedge bitcoin sales, he said.

BloombergREAD ALSO: SmartTrans’s rocky road to success in China Spreading bitcoin use US web retailer Overstock.com plans to accept Bitcoin

The Australian Financial Review

 

[pacestick]

Re: Bitcoin

overstock.com a major us online retailer now waccepting bitcoin payments

for an intersting history of bitcoin see this link

http://historyofbitcoin.org/

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Bitcoin

Bitcoin is interesting, been following it a bit myself.

For something that isn't actually anything physical, it baffles me how it can be of equal value almost to the likes of Gold...........then again, I guess the ideal currency that all drug lords and smugglers use as it can't be identified as to who and where it's going(not very easily anyway) is going to be fairly valuable.

 

[pacestick]

Re: Bitcoin

Bitcoin is interesting, been following it a bit myself.

For something that isn't actually anything physical, it baffles me how it can be of equal value almost to the likes of Gold...........then again, I guess the ideal currency that all drug lords and smugglers use as it can't be identified as to who and where it's going(not very easily anyway) is going to be fairly valuable.

Its value is determined by pure demand and supply as per adam smiths economics .Therefore if there is a lack of demand it will fall and if there is an over supply it will fall . However because supply is limited by the equation that is used to create it there is a known limited unltimate supply in contrast to precious metals where we do not know if all gold has been discovered and how much there is.

Tracing it can be achieved despite what has been reported in the media . The difficulty is that due to encryption levels on bit coin wallets if law enforcement catches the crooks they cant access the money without the password which the criminals may or may not hand over The cases that have occurred recently of unauthorised naccess have been because individuals used on line wallets rather than off line wallets

Unlike fiat currencies bitcoin cannot be manipulated by governments through printing more .

I am of the opinion that it will take out a big proportion of the business to businesss international transaction market where the banks charge enormous fees but bit coin is free Although you can pay a fee to speed up the trasaction

Users of bitcoin however do pay a fee to turn cash into bitcoin and bitcoin back to cash. However the more the market develops the less often people will need to move back and forth.

Bitcoin exchanges in Australia include bit trade australia which I use can be found at bitcoin charts.com look under currencies at the AUD

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Bitcoin

Its value is determined by pure demand and supply as per adam smiths economics .Therefore if there is a lack of demand it will fall and if there is an over supply it will fall . However because supply is limited by the equation that is used to create it there is a known limited unltimate supply in contrast to precious metals where we do not know if all gold has been discovered and how much there is.

Tracing it can be achieved despite what has been reported in the media . The difficulty is that due to encryption levels on bit coin wallets if law enforcement catches the crooks they cant access the money without the password which the criminals may or may not hand over The cases that have occurred recently of unauthorised naccess have been because individuals used on line wallets rather than off line wallets

Unlike fiat currencies bitcoin cannot be manipulated by governments through printing more .

I am of the opinion that it will take out a big proportion of the business to businesss international transaction market where the banks charge enormous fees but bit coin is free Although you can pay a fee to speed up the trasaction

Users of bitcoin however do pay a fee to turn cash into bitcoin and bitcoin back to cash. However the more the market develops the less often people will need to move back and forth.

Bitcoin exchanges in Australia include bit trade australia which I use can be found at bitcoin charts.com look under currencies at the AUD

Yep, I know all that. Problem is also security, encryption isn't encryption for very long, will eventually be cracked, as has already happened numerous times with hackers stealing 10X million the other day. It's not exactly something to have a huge amount of confidence in considering its speculated price.

Guaranteed it will take out a big proportion of international business transactions, it will be the king of dirty money, as has also already happened with the likes of Silk Road.

I still don't understand how it can be worth as much as Gold, I get the whole only a limited amount of it and we don't know how much Gold there is, but still, Gold is real and pure and is actually worth something, always has, there isn't any actual THING with bitcoin, just some thought up electronic currency, computer/phone/tablet crashes and unless you have some serious back up solution you've lost the lot, and that seems like a fairly realistic scenario.

 

[pacestick]

Re: Bitcoin

I am afraid that is not correct despite news reports bitcoin itself has not been hacked . What has been hacked is peoples personal and online wallets held by companies . This has ocurred exactly the same way as if they had used weak passwords on their bank accounts and made the account name known another illustration is that to have such a weak password or to have a central server to hold your wallet is like putting money on the front lawn and wondering why it isnt there the next day. AS far as the encryption level is concerned the encryption cannot be broken untill quantum computers arrive due about one decade on