Bitcoin - Peer to Peer currency

[againsthegrain]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

err right $50 and $100 ... playing dirty cheap speccy stocks does that to me, i see everything in cents

 

[Superb Parrot]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Interesting recent analysis

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2tdZG8OsWtLU1BPbGNPNnc0Unc/view?sle=true

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Oh dear. Looks like Bitcoin bit the dust.

Will another digital currency ever float after this fiasco? Everyone should get their money back. Apparently.....

BITCOIN has halted trading indefinitely and is promising to return everyone's money.
The virtual currency whose price has been fluctuating wildly over the last few weeks announced on its website that it must "cease all trading operations indefinitely...due to circumstances beyond its control".
The announcement comes after weeks of denial of service attacks and technical problems that led to severe price fluctuations.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/b...ly/story-fn5lic6c-1226623544108#ixzz2QmwjpiED

I'm curious how all those online businesses that had been utilising Bitcoins as their sole or prime trading currency will react now...??

Additional info from Wiki....

2013 values
The USD value of a bitcoin increased ten-fold in early 2013 from $13/BTC on 1 January to $190/BTC on 9 April, three months later. Suggested reasons for the rise in price included the European sovereign-debt crisis – particularly the 2012–2013 Cypriot financial crisis – statements by FinCEN improving the currency's legal standing and rising media and Internet interest.[49][50][51][52]
As the market value of the total bitcoin supply approached $1 billion USD, financial commentators described bitcoin prices as a bubble.[53][54][55] On 10 April 2013, Bitcoin dropped from a price of $266 to $105 before returning to a value of $160 within six hours.[39]

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

If it looks like a ponzi, sounds like a ponzi and moves like a ponzi, it is a ponzi for gawd's sake.

gg

Metinks it stunk like a Ponzi too.....

 

[moXJO]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Didn't those Winklevoss twins of facebook fame just sink millions of $ in bitcoins?
They were talking it up like it was a sure thing, must have been a lot of people who invested off the back of their support.

 

[Underpants Gnome]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Oh dear. Looks like Bitcoin bit the dust.

Will another digital currency ever float after this fiasco? Everyone should get their money back. Apparently.....




Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/b...ly/story-fn5lic6c-1226623544108#ixzz2QmwjpiED

I'm curious how all those online businesses that had been utilising Bitcoins as their sole or prime trading currency will react now...??

Additional info from Wiki....

That article is about a single BitCoin exchange - BitFloor - shutting down, not BitCoin itself. For perspective BitFloor apparently handles ~4% of the trading volume of Mt. Gox - http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/17/4236876/bitcoin-exchange-bitfloor-shuts-doors.

The headline you've quoted ("BITCOIN has halted trading indefinitely and is promising to return everyone's money.") does not match what's on news.com.au now ("BitCoin exchange BitFloor shuts down trading"), so they may have corrected it since you posted.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

That article is about a single BitCoin exchange - BitFloor - shutting down, not BitCoin itself. For perspective BitFloor apparently handles ~4% of the trading volume of Mt. Gox - http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/17/4236876/bitcoin-exchange-bitfloor-shuts-doors.

The headline you've quoted ("BITCOIN has halted trading indefinitely and is promising to return everyone's money.") does not match what's on news.com.au now ("BitCoin exchange BitFloor shuts down trading"), so they may have corrected it since you posted.

Why those dirty ra.... :frown:

Yup. Truth in journalism again..... and they didn't even offer a stinking apology for the mis-information....

Note the info under their graph still stands atm....

Bitcoin has ceased trading indefinitely following months of attacks. Picture: Clark Moody

 

[moXJO]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Why those dirty ra.... :frown:

Yup. Truth in journalism again..... and they didn't even offer a stinking apology for the mis-information....

Note the info under their graph still stands atm....

Yeah I just checked google and saw no other news about it. Friken dodge media

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Oh dear. Looks like Bitcoin bit the dust.

Will another digital currency ever float after this fiasco? Everyone should get their money back. Apparently.....




Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/b...ly/story-fn5lic6c-1226623544108#ixzz2QmwjpiED

I'm curious how all those online businesses that had been utilising Bitcoins as their sole or prime trading currency will react now...??

Additional info from Wiki....

Jeff please.

The main stream media hasn't got a clue as to what's happening in BC world, not a freaking clue.

The currency does not "have a web site" it lives on the computers of maybe a million people, there is no central server or servers, no one individual or group of individuals is running it....your link refers to a BC exchange called BitFloor which is a very minor player in BC world, of a size comparable to Sonray capital when they went under.

Except that BitFloor hasn't gone under just suspended trading and looks like rolling back trades...nothing unusual in BC world, we have seen it before.

 

[Izabarack]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Everyone should get their money back. Apparently.....

Yes, apparently.

Iza

 

[Some Dude]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Metinks it stunk like a Ponzi too.....

Why do you (or GG) think it is a ponzi scheme?

 

[galumay]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Why do you (or GG) think it is a ponzi scheme?

Look up the definition of a ponzi scheme and its pretty obvious!

The funny thing is that the doomsday preppers and conspiracy theorists who have so much faith in a non-existent currency call the real economic system a ponzi scheme.

At least with paper currency there is some relationship between the country of issue, its nominal worth and the currencies worth, bitcoins are no more than computer code that has no intrinsic value or asset backing at all.

At least with gold bullion you can use it for a door stop, or to hit a burgler over the head with it.

 

[Some Dude]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Look up the definition of a ponzi scheme and its pretty obvious!

The funny thing is that the doomsday preppers and conspiracy theorists who have so much faith in a non-existent currency call the real economic system a ponzi scheme.

At least with paper currency there is some relationship between the country of issue, its nominal worth and the currencies worth, bitcoins are no more than computer code that has no intrinsic value or asset backing at all.

At least with gold bullion you can use it for a door stop, or to hit a burgler over the head with it.

I have and it isn't obvious to me. I have looked the code and made sure I understood it. It's not the future, and I don't even think it is a virtual currency in the sense of how most proponents believe it is, but I do think it is a very interesting indicator for how a future virtual currency will work. Simply being virtual does not in and of itself correlate to having no value, intrinsic or otherwise. It simply means that you do not attribute the same value to it as someone else but that is not different to how the market operates with all things. The stream of ones and zeros in this mp3 file I am listening to now would have no intrinsic value in the sense you suggest but people treat it as if it has value from a monetary, intellectual property, and legal perspective.

Would you be able to elaborate for me why you believe it is like a ponzi scheme?

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.

I think there are several inherent flaws in Bitcoin, but a ponzi scheme does not appear to myself to be one of them.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

I think there are several inherent flaws in Bitcoin, but a ponzi scheme does not appear to myself to be one of them.

I would be interested to hear what flaws you think exist in the current BTC system

 

[Some Dude]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

I would be interested to hear what flaws you think exist in the current BTC system

1. The system relies on a processing network i.e. miners, to prcoess transactions which I believe are the basic value of Bitcoin. While an incentive was built into the system to encourage processing, once that incentive is gone, I am not convinced that sufficient processing power will remain to facilitate the level of transactions required. Granted the difficulty will come down to compensate for the lower processing power, but the incentive will not remain and I suspect the network will collapse. This will provide a viable attack vector for the primary security weakness i.e. more than 50% of the processing network belonging to one entity.

2. Bitcoin is more a commodity than a virtual currency. I can't go down to my local super market and trade gold for my groceries. Bitcoin has the same problem in that it's value is in it's global interchangeability between localised currencies. If I want to send "value" to someone not in my local area, Bitcoin is a mechanism that enables me to do so in a manner that can't be directly restricted, but it is limited in that it ultimately has to be converted to the local "currency" for the value to be usable.

3. I think it was an error to restrict the maximum number of Bitcoins, or at least to the level it is restricted. I understand why it was perceived as a good thing but assuming I am wrong about points 1 and 2, and it takes hold as a virtual currency, then the limited number will inflate the "value" to unusable proportions i.e. the lowest bitcoin value will be worth more than is usable in a daily sense.

4. The crypto is good for the current computing landscape but if different computing mechanisms make current "hard" problems not so hard, then the security underpinning Bitcoin may collapse. An example is the hash processing in that devices are nearly available that make the exercise almost trivial. I suspect the same will eventuate for some crypto-algorithms over time.

 

[white_goodman]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

3. I think it was an error to restrict the maximum number of Bitcoins, or at least to the level it is restricted. I understand why it was perceived as a good thing but assuming I am wrong about points 1 and 2, and it takes hold as a virtual currency, then the limited number will inflate the "value" to unusable proportions i.e. the lowest bitcoin value will be worth more than is usable in a daily sense..

i also see problems with market/pricing inefficiency as spreads/liquidity can dry up quite quickly relating to the bitcoin cap.. also a massively volatile/deflating currency aint great for transactions.

You can also delve into theories of value if youre inclined..

‘‘A prince, who should enact that a certain proportion of his taxes be paid in a paper money of a certain kind, might thereby give a certain value to this paper money."

 

[white_goodman]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

the other problem it currently has is there are no forward markets, which is problematic if u want to actually get bigger businesses involved instead of silk road enthusiasts and various other social outcasts

 

[sinner]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Mish interview with Bitcoin Jesus:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/mish-interview-with-bitcoin-jesus.html

Bitcoin Jesus Sez:

Mish: Anything else you wish to add?
BJ: Yes thanks. It is important to realize that Bitcoin has two independent functions:

1. As a currency
2. As a payment system

To use Bitcoin as a payment system, it doesn't matter if they are worth $1 or $100,000 each. You simply buy the correct USD amount, and send it to the recipient who immediately exchanges them back into whatever other currency they want.

I don't think Bitcoin's usefulness as an unblockable, uncontrollable, potentially anonymous payment system can be disputed. Time will tell how useful the bitcoins within the Bitcoin payment system become as an actual currency.

I agree with this POV, although caveat around it's only useful as a payment system as long as a functioning, liquid market for BTC/USD exists.

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

I would be interested to hear what flaws you think exist in the current BTC system

Can i?

Flaws in the actually system that creates BC? none that i can see, it is what it is.

Flaws in the currency sure..for starters its a currency that can actually buy you very little, you can exchange it for real money but over the last 3 years BC has traded more like a commodity than a currency, and no regulations mean no safeguards.

While the community in general are fair minded and often do the right thing simply because its right, some people can and do try and take advantage of the situation, just look at at April DOS attacks against Mt Gox...i love the virtual world of BC land but the currency just isn't behaving like a currency should.

 

[aster]

Re: Bitcoins - Peer to Peer currency

Is there an easy way to invest in Bitcoins in Australia? Any funds which invest in this directly? I wouldn't mind playing about with this but I'd rather keep the transactions local, via some sort of fund for instance which focuses on Bitcoins. I also don't want to "physically" hold them by having to keep some codes safe on a usb stick sitting in my safe for instance.

Any ideas?