Bill Stacy?

[skyQuake]

True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.

Are you then agreeing that that playing with $3k of options has very similar risk characteristics with trading with $80k of stock? (ie a 4% move in the underlying will roughly have the same effect on stock and option position?)

 

[nulla nulla]

True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.

If your customers are making their guaranteed $2,000 per week trading off a base of $20,000 they would very soon have a capital base in excess of $80,000 particularly if they were turning their profits back into subsequent "successful" trades.

In my opinion, the problems with trading theories promoted/spammed on forums are basically as follows:
1. If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is;
2. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach; and
3. The market is full of "successful" traders making more out of "$5,000 courses" and news letters than they ever did trading.

If your clients, having googled your name and read the posts on this thread, think your posts on this thread enhance your credibility and then still want to sign on for your courses, then they deserve everything they get. Or more likely what they don't get.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Buying options is utilizing leverage, margin doesn't come into it. It's a valid and common strategy used by short term speculators. Sure, an option position has different profit and loss characteristics to the physical underlying; that's how they were designed as a hedging vehicle. It's also why they are attractive to short term traders willing to accept the added risk that comes with the potential for leveraged profits. Saying its a dumb way to trade is just ignorant. My most profitable trades have been with bought options, risking a know maximum dollar amount for over 500% return on many occasions. Sure beats a 1:2 R/R....

What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. My experience is with index and currency options, but id imagine ASX equity options have wider spreads and gap more. Maybe ATM it isn't an issue? What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan. You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.

It is a dumb way to daytrade ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.

Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.

 

[wayneL]

It is a dumb way to daytrade ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.

Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.

Bang on TH.


Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.

I will be adding to this when i get back to my cave.

 

[prawn_86]

Bang on TH.

Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.

I will be adding to this when i get back to my cave.

Yes to add to this check out one of TH's old threads where he documented every trade, on an instrument that he doesnt use full time.

Probably the best thread a potential newbie trader could read to show what is possible, but more importantly the approach, strategising, and discipline you need to have:

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12683

I (and other mods) have verified this statistics as a moderator and have seen the account logs etc for anyone who wants to question that

 

[tech/a]

Yeh he is.

But as you'll see in the thread those who don't get it want to be lead by the trembling hand.

If you take the time to look at what's going on in his scatter charts and the comment " wax on wax off"
Youll find the answer.

 

[OneDayWealth]

If your customers are making their guaranteed $2,000 per week trading off a base of $20,000 they would very soon have a capital base in excess of $80,000 particularly if they were turning their profits back into subsequent "successful" trades.

In my opinion, the problems with trading theories promoted/spammed on forums are basically as follows:
1. If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is;
2. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach; and
3. The market is full of "successful" traders making more out of "$5,000 courses" and news letters than they ever did trading.

If your clients, having googled your name and read the posts on this thread, think your posts on this thread enhance your credibility and then still want to sign on for your courses, then they deserve everything they get. Or more likely what they don't get.

Fool, is that the best post you can make? Lol

Perhaps you might want to actually read the responses properly before commenting and looking sillier than you are. Read back about the guarantee. If you're English is at a grade 3 level you will see that I made no $2,000 a week guarantee. That was an entirely different website and idea - nothing to do with the stock market or day trading options AT ALL...lol

Who the **** are you calling a spammer? I didn't start this thread. I was attacked by lies and am here defending myself from defamation. I expect you would just run away and hide?...lol

But let's take your regurgitated clichés one by one because they are each good for a sorry laugh.

1) It's not too good if it IS true? Just because you've never heard of it and want to follow the stone throwing crowd does that make something untrue? You clearly (also) have no idea what you;re talking about. Go and google more old clichés and let's see what other rubbish you can bring back and "contribute with.

2) There are those who CAN and DO. There are millions and millions of examples of this. Anyone with even two brain cells will tell you this. Why did you even say such a stupid thing? It only made you look dumber than you appear to be.

3) I make money trading, I make money helping people understand (step by step - not like most other courses). Are you a communist as well? Do you have something against business or do you just hate people being educated and learning something new?

Actually, many people have sent me emails and sms of support. If I were to repeat what they all thought of you no hopers my posts would be full of stars. What you don't seem to be capable of realising is that when someone is defamed unfairly and they stand up and fight, round after round after round and still stand their ground and fight it looks good. If you can't understand that then you are even more misinformed, uneducated and dumber than it appears (from your posts) that you are.

The more you attack me with your clichés and $300,000 mistakes the better I (or anyone for that matter) look. You are doing more for me in advertising than I could have ever wished for. Please keep it up but for your own sake, let me give you this little piece of advice, know what you;re talking about before you post. Especially if you are planting yourself in the weed patch as an expert. Make sure (for example) that you know how to use a calculator...lol

It is a dumb way to daytrade ASX stocks, with small daily ranges, high brokerage, large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.

Not to mention the utter utter BS of having a $5,000 account and taking position sizes that risk 10-20 % or more of capital on each trade.

Again you are not listening. I have never traded ASX stocks. This is a discussion about OPTIONS!...lol Can't even get the instrument right...lol And you should read back on my reply to position sizing. I don't advise anyone to trade their entire portfolio or cash reserves on this method and no matter how many times you want to try to make people think I do (to make your arguments appear valid I expect - weak as...) the worse you look. You can try to twist my words any way you like. From the emails I'm receiving about your posts (in particular) you have a lot to learn - perhaps more about listening than day trading options. You're the stock market equivalent to a Luddite. If it's new you want to destroy it. How weak is that.

Bang on TH.


Folks this man is the real deal in daytrader land.

I will be adding to this when i get back to my cave.

Mr Ker, I have never once attacked what trembling hand has done or does - not once. If he makes money day trading stocks then great! More power to him, I wish him luck and great fortune. But just because he does his thing and doesn't understand my thing and wants to cross his arms, puff his chest and look away doesn't make him the real thing at all. It makes him a stroppy child that people are getting more and more sick of listening to.

The fact is I have been doing this for over 7 years and teaching it for over 4 years. I have thousands of hours of experience. I have developed my own layouts and my own tools for making the right decisions at the right time at the right speed and there is NOTHING you can do or say to erase that FACT. Your hysterical arguments are bolstering my position and adding to my google strength. Stick to what you know and stop attacking new things just because they are new to you and you don't understand them.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Yes to add to this check out one of TH's old threads where he documented every trade, on an instrument that he doesnt use full time.

I (and other mods) have verified this statistics as a moderator and have seen the account logs etc for anyone who wants to question that

Great! But irrelevant. Not once in any post I have made have I EVER said he doesn't know how to do what he does. But to come on here and attack me for what I do (not just theorise about - but actually DO - and have done for many many years) only shows how massively threatened by me (or probably more accurately something new) he feels. Good luck to him! That however does NOT give him the right to throw stones and rocks at me in an obvious attempt to bolster his own method and credibility just because he doesn't understand how it's possible for anyone to do something other than what HE does. God forbid anything new comes along.

Wow...threatened much!...lol

 

[prawn_86]

LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.

If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock. End of story.

 

[ftw129]

LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.

If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock. End of story.

Hi Prawn,

I'm probably one of the people that you're referring to so correct me if I'm wrong just in case there's something I don't understand.

When I buy an Option I get that it derives it's price from the underlying stock (that's obvious so I'm sure you're not trying to argue that point across here). Ultimately though what happens to that option by the expiry date is up to me, whether the underlying stock goes to $0 or $1000. If I choose to not do anything with that Option, then it expires worthless and I lose what I paid for it. I never intend to exercise my Options.

As far as I'm aware, I have no further exposure.

Am I missing something?

 

[OneDayWealth]

LOL at people who think when trading a derivative you have no exposure to the underlying.

If you are trading stock options, you have exposure to the underlying stock. End of story.

lol. When I buy a derivative I buy a derivative. I don't buy the underlying stock. Sure (as anyone who has even flicked through the ASX options booklet knows) the option will get it's move from what the underlying stock does but how is that even remotely relevant to my purchase? Are you saying that if I buy a call for $5,000 I am suddenly exposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock? lol, you might want to go back and read the intro to options book dude.

If I buy something for 80c and it moves to 100c in one day and I sell it for a 20c I have made a profit of 20c on an 80c investment. That is ALL I care about.

lol to anyone who doesn't understand that. I have NO exposure to anything other than the option I bought. My maximum loss is the investment I made in the option. Nothing at all to do with how much the stock is worth - AT ALL!! The only interest I have in the stock is to what it move and make my plays according to that move but I always trade JUST THE OPTION. I'm not making any promises to the market when I BUY an option. Wow, is that really so difficult to understand? Maybe a basic course in options is what some of you need to do before replying here again. That and get new batteries for your calculator...lol

To give you a little benefit of the doubt; I think maybe you're getting all confused. Slow down, take a deep breath and read a little more on how options work and you might understand what buying an option exposes you to. It's...umm, the option. Nothing else.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Hi Prawn,

I'm probably one of the people that you're referring to so correct me if I'm wrong just in case there's something I don't understand.

When I buy an Option I get that it derives it's price from the underlying stock (that's obvious so I'm sure you're not trying to argue that point across here). Ultimately though what happens to that option by the expiry date is up to me, whether the underlying stock goes to $0 or $1000. If I choose to not do anything with that Option, then it expires worthless and I lose what I paid for it. I never intend to exercise my Options.

As far as I'm aware, I have no further exposure.

Am I missing something?

Nope.

 

[skyQuake]

lol. When I buy a derivative I buy a derivative. I don't buy the underlying stock. Sure (as anyone who has even flicked through the ASX options booklet knows) the option will get it's move from what the underlying stock does but how is that even remotely relevant to my purchase? Are you saying that if I buy a call for $5,000 I am suddenly exposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock? lol, you might want to go back and read the intro to options book dude.

If I buy something for 80c and it moves to 100c in one day and I sell it for a 20c I have made a profit of 20c on an 80c investment. That is ALL I care about.

lol to anyone who doesn't understand that. I have NO exposure to anything other than the option I bought. My maximum loss is the investment I made in the option. Nothing at all to do with how much the stock is worth - AT ALL!! The only interest I have in the stock is to what it move and make my plays according to that move but I always trade JUST THE OPTION. I'm not making any promises to the market when I BUY an option. Wow, is that really so difficult to understand? Maybe a basic course in options is what some of you need to do before replying here again. That and get new batteries for your calculator...lol

To give you a little benefit of the doubt; I think maybe you're getting all confused. Slow down, take a deep breath and read a little more on how options work and you might understand what buying an option exposes you to. It's...umm, the option. Nothing else.

Gee, being so condescending won't do you any favours, though the irony is most delicious. Care to answer my point on the top of this page?

 

[OneDayWealth]

Are you then agreeing that that playing with $3k of options has very similar risk characteristics with trading with $80k of stock? (ie a 4% move in the underlying will roughly have the same effect on stock and option position?)

Nope, a 4% move in the underlying would obviously have a far greater effect on the option price. If I bought an option and the stock moved 4% it would have a massive effect on the value of the option. If it went my way I would be having an exceptional day! If it went against me I would have exited long ago.

By the way anyone "playing" with options should not. Trading options is a very serious and fast business - there is no "playing" in what I do. Anyone who just wants to "play" will soon lose all their money. It's the very first thing I say to people. This is not a method for ninnies or scaredy cats.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Gee, being so condescending won't do you any favours, though the irony is most delicious. Care to answer my point on the top of this page?

Oh, my dear, the gloves came off well before I entered this assassination thread.

See my answer above regarding your top of the page question.

 

[skyQuake]

Nope, a 4% move in the underlying would obviously have a far greater effect on the option price. If I bought an option and the stock moved 4% it would have a massive effect on the value of the option. If it went my way I would be having an exceptional day! If it went against me I would have exited long ago.

%wise obviously large difference, but in terms of absolute P/L both positions would make/lose the same amount. Roughly $3k. Agree?

How can you exit long ago when 2~3% gaps are common enough even on the large cap stuff, and you can't get out in the first hr due to marketmaker shenanigans.

 

[OneDayWealth]

%wise obviously large difference, but in terms of absolute P/L both positions would make/lose the same amount. Roughly $3k. Agree?

How can you exit long ago when 2~3% gaps are common enough even on the large cap stuff, and you can't get out in the first hr due to marketmaker shenanigans.

True, which is why I day trade, not overnight trade. Most of the people who lose too much on options leave them overnight. I use 10 minute candles which give me plenty of warning (as long as I obey them).

 

[skyQuake]

True, which is why I day trade, not overnight trade. Most of the people who lose too much on options leave them overnight. I use 10 minute candles which give me plenty of warning (as long as I obey them).

Those two positions would then be same as a CFD position at 5% margin = $4k (which is leveraged btw)
If you decided to throw in a guarantee stop loss (costing 0.5% more) the cfd position is pretty much identical to the oppies position. And it is very leveraged.

The point that everyone is trying to make is that the oppies trade may not look leveraged but it is leveraged by virtue of being a derivative. Sure you may have only $3k exposure but that is essentially the same as having an $80k exposure with a 4% stop.

And if you have only $5k to swing around, its probably best not to take on an $80k notional position. Risk of Ruin just around the corner.

 

[TeleSonic]

....large spread, and no protection with auto stops because they are so illiquid the price could move 4-5 ticks without a trade.

This is what worries me most about this strategy. Options are in my opinion the most difficult instrument to achieve modelled outcomes with (hedging aside). For all the theory and calculations that one can perform prior to a trade, once you're live it means little. Trying to keep loses at 10% to make maybe 20 - 30% on your outlay is too tight IMO.

With ASIC tightening the guidelines regarding complex financial products and how they can be advertised to retail investors, what suitability requirements has your licensee put in place for those buying your course?

 

[wayneL]

Mr Ker

Bill

Although there is already abundant evidence of your petulant immaturity and a total lack of professionalism through you consistent name calling, thank you once again for highlighting the same.

The fact is I have been doing this for over 7 years and teaching it for over 4 years. I have thousands of hours of experience. I have developed my own layouts and my own tools for making the right decisions at the right time at the right speed and there is NOTHING you can do or say to erase that FACT. Your hysterical arguments are bolstering my position and adding to my google strength. Stick to what you know and stop attacking new things just because they are new to you and you don't understand them.

Oh my! ROTFLMAO!

Thanks for the laugh. Anytime you want to compare options knowledge and experience, I'm up for it... and I'd back myself London to a brick.

Anytime mate!