Bill Stacy?

[OneDayWealth]

yep you truly have no friggin idea what you are doing.

Ignoring the BS about MA trading signals. Especially on WebIress because their charts are ony 1 day snap shot. I don't want to get in a fight about the expectancy of a MA cross system. There is too much in the above example to laugh at first.

So your position was. 27 X 1000 (options X shares per option) = 27,000 ANZ shares.

Your profit, (we will get back to brokerage + spread lata)

$0.125 X 27,000 = $3375

What you would do if you had 1/2 a brain would of been to by 27000 ANZ shares.

$0.30 X 27,000 = $8100 profit.

You nutbag!! That is why options are sh!te for daytrading and why what your are teaching is dangerous . Same amount of exposure, 27,000 shares, Less than half the profit!! Plus increased amount of cost (brokerage + spread)

Lol, are you serious?! YOU truly have no idea what you're doing. let's prove it shall we? There is so much wrong in your reply I'm surprised you even posted it. Next time you should think a bit longer before you post or even better yet, make sure you know what you're talking about before posting. You MUST have known you were guessing because it's clear that you have very little real experience in options. I'd also suggest learning how to use a calculator. It will save you from making any more $328,000 mistakes...lol

1) WebIress is not a daily snapshot (have you ever used it?). It's a live platform with instant live updates that is used by most brokers and many traders. What possible use would a daily snapshot be to anyone? Check your facts.

2) 27,000 options cost me $20,000. 27,000 shares would have cost me $348,300!!! - calculator - use a calculator.

3) If I had used my $20,000 to buy shares (as you suggest) I could only have afforded 1,544 of them (at $12.95) and could have sold them for $13.25 creating a profit of $458 minus a couple of hundred dollars in brokerage (most firms charge a minimum of $100 per trade on shares - Options cost a minimum of $26.50 but I usually pay about $120 in and out combined). That would have given me the daily average share price move of 1% which is still pretty good (annualised if you can make 1% every day). With the same money risked I made 15 times more (15%)!

You nutbag!! That is why options are fantastic for daytrading and why what your are saying is dangerous and wrong. Vastly reduced exposure and more than 15 times the profit!! Plus decreased amount of cost (brokerage).

Wow, how does it feel to make a $328,000 mistake in front of the whole forum? lol...please, if you're going to call me a nutbag it might pay to check your facts first. You got almost everything in that post catostrophically wrong! Oh my god, I'm so embarrassed for you...lol You fire the arrow forward at the target not backwards at your own head.

Lol, that was classic. At least now I know who I'm dealing with. If you can something this basic so wrong you have no right to be calling anyone a nutbag. Apology presumed and accepted. Classic.

 

[OneDayWealth]

To add further. Have you thought about the dude who was on the other side of your trade?????????????????????? The market maker?

She sells you a call of 27000 ANZ shares. So she is now short via an option. So to hedge he goes long 27000 ANZ. She is now neutral and you carry all the risk of the trade.

ANZ raises $0.30 so you sell back to her the oppy. She then closes her long.

You made 12.5 cents from the oppy trade and took all the risk.
She made 30 cents from the ANZ trade lost 12.5 cents from the oppy trade. She made 17.5 cents and took no risk.

LOL see my signature below :sheep:

lol, you classic. Why would I care what someone else makes? I just made $3,000 in 3 hours. Good luck to the maker! I thank him for making the opportunity available to me. I'd send him a case of beer if I knew who he was.

You should look at your own signature. You have made no point in this reply and if I were you I would worry more about your previous reply before calling anyone a sheep. You clearly have no idea what you're saying as proven by your previous reply where you made a three hundred THOUSAND dollar error in your calculations!!!. lol.

This is a clear case why practical experience beats theoretical posturing. You really are struggling to prove me wrong when I have hundreds of real live trades and years of experience backing me up. The difference is I KNOW I'm right but you only THINK you're right. Huge difference in the real world buddy.

 

[Trembling Hand]

OMG. I fully understand the size of 27000 ANZ shares @ 12.95. That was your exposure. Whether you bought it in direct shares or options you had exposure to 27000 anz shares. If your account is too small to handle that then you are way effin over leveraged.

And yes I know WebIress well, stopped using in 2005. The intraday charts are ONLY for that day. How the hell you can use indicators on that I have no idea. You have to wait for 20 bars before your indicators will work. You are using the absolutely wrong tool with a statistical proven losing method while way way over-leverage trading a low delta product with high spread and crappy brokerage.. And charging people on top of it.

AND then..............

 

[OneDayWealth]

OMG. I fully understand the size of 27000 ANZ shares @ 12.95. That was your exposure. Whether you bought it in direct shares or options you had exposure to 27000 anz shares. If your account is too small to handle that then you are way effin over leveraged.

And yes I know WebIress well, stopped using in 2005. The intraday charts are ONLY for that day. How the hell you can use indicators on that I have no idea. You have to wait for 20 bars before your indicators will work. You are using the absolutely wrong tool with a statistical proven losing method while way way over-leverage trading a low delta product with high spread and crappy brokerage.. And charging people on top of it.

AND then..............

FFS give it a rest dude. My exposure was NOT 27,000 x $12.95! lol are you SERIOUS?! Can you read English? Do you understand numbers at all? I bought options that were worth 82 and a half cents! It is 100% irrelevant what the underlying share they derive their value from is worth. ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT!!! I did not buy it nor did I have the money to buy it nor would I ever buy it when I can make SO much more buy buying a simple option at less than 12 times it's value and making over 15 times more than if I'd bought the share? Can you even read English?

I never said WebIRESS is the ONLY tool I use - did I? Once again this proves that you don't read. I also use Bourse and WebIress combined which gives me all the analysis I need and besides WebIress carries two days data these days (you didn't know that did you?) but yesterday's price has little bearing on today's candles because I PREFER to ignore the first 1 hour anyway which works perfectly with what you think is wrong with WebIress. It actually works in my favour so you really don't know everything do you? You clearly don't know squat about day trading options so please, do us all a favour...

How can it be a "proven losing method" when I have years of experience in not only using it myself but in helping others use it successfully as well? It's clearly a proven winning method by all definitions - providing you call real use over years proof.

Your leverage example is totally irrelevant. I buy "things" which I sell later that day for more. Plain and simple. Just like any other business that buys and sells things. Cars, milk, chips...they all sell things which they bought for less. Your love of theory is leaving you behind in the real world in a cloud of righteousness that doesn't allow you to see clearly something that is right in front of your face.

Yes I charge people and have NO problem in doing so. If I'm going to show them how to make thousands of dollars a day whether you or anyone else likes it or not that's worth something. Your jealousy is getting in the way of your thinking. If you can help people make money and they are using it and really making money then you should and could and should feel good about selling it also. Or maybe your politics doesn't allow you to make money or you believe that making money is evil - whatever, your problem is not my problem.

I've PROVEN this works thousands of times! What else is there to prove? Nothing. I'd love to constantly improve it of course but what works, works and there's no denying it. Stop hating, start listening. Your blind rage and hate of something someone else is doing that you can not do is clouding your judgment and you are scraping the barrel trying to find things to disprove a reality.

You don't know everything especially after making such massive mistakes in your calculations and argument. Get a battery for your calculator take your head out of your **** and maybe you will see there are other things in the world going on that you just might not be aware of. While you are making love to your irrelevant theory I'm out there practicing and making money and helping others. Jealousy is a curse - get over it dude. FFS. lol

 

[builder2818]

I enjoy reading this thread........it gets a little too much after a while reading the same types of replies from both sides.

Bill seems to be making money (as he states) and all the best to him if he is - I would like to be earning the money he claims and i'd probably sell ice to eskimo's if I had the gift of the gab....my family has to eat, I could care less about the person next to me.

I have no doubt there are people on this forum who know the ins and outs of everything to do with options and would like to know if they use this extensive knowledge to actually trade and make money for a living? Not some "first year finance undergraduate" who got a distinction in learning the Black-Scholes Method - that I could less about.

Bills trading style seems like it's just taking a punt on which direction a stock will be moving and believing in a few signals and indicators to increase the probability of the trade going his way. Obviously if he's paying $20,000 for some calls and puts, a small increase in the value of the options is going to result in a tidy profit (and also a large loss if not sold back to the market quick enough when the trade has gone wrong).

 

[OneDayWealth]

I enjoy reading this thread........it gets a little too much after a while reading the same types of replies from both sides.

Bill seems to be making money (as he states) and all the best to him if he is - I would like to be earning the money he claims and i'd probably sell ice to eskimo's if I had the gift of the gab....my family has to eat, I could care less about the person next to me.

I have no doubt there are people on this forum who know the ins and outs of everything to do with options and would like to know if they use this extensive knowledge to actually trade and make money for a living? Not some "first year finance undergraduate" who got a distinction in learning the Black-Scholes Method - that I could less about.

Bills trading style seems like it's just taking a punt on which direction a stock will be moving and believing in a few signals and indicators to increase the probability of the trade going his way. Obviously if he's paying $20,000 for some calls and puts, a small increase in the value of the options is going to result in a tidy profit (and also a large loss if not sold back to the market quick enough when the trade has gone wrong).

True, but everyone in business takes a "punt" every day and TA and candle analysis has been around for a long time. Sometimes the trades are so easy it's like stepping onto an escalator that says "up" and yes you can't just leave your trade you have to monitor it but for me it's better to be monitoring a trade from the comfort of wherever I am than to be slaving away as a welder in a stinking hot boiler shop. I see people throwing away tens of thousands of dollars on small business ideas all the time and you know the stats on the success for small business - most fail. yes there are risks but if you know them and what they look like they are more than manageable.

Sorry if this thread has been a bit hard on the eyes and believe me I'd be far happier explaining than arguing with haters but they exist everywhere and I can't stand idly by and have my name dragged through the mud for no good reason. I deal with adults (not children) - they know the risks (I explain them very well) and we do business. Some people have a real problem with that because they are imagining something that's not there but with cool heads good decisions will prevail and everyone (has at least a decent chance) of winning which is far preferred than just sitting back, complaining and throwing rocks at strangers.

I wish you well builder, you seem like you have a cool head.

 

[ftw129]

I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.

I buy options with the intention of selling them days or weeks later. I never wish to exercise them so my ultimate risk is what I paid for that option full stop. It's irrelevant to me how much "exposure" the underlying options have as I (being the buyer) have no intention of ever exercising them.

And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.

Don't know if that helps.

 

[ColB]

Winding you up is like shelling peas. And from what I can see, you're flat out counting past ten, so I figure at least masturbation jokes won't fly over your head...

But anyway, I'll leave you to it Mr 10%.

Posted by Bill Stacey 11 April 2009

1. You know what?

I'm done with you guys. What a bunch of losers. I'm trying to help people here and all you can do is critisize and complain like a bunch of bitter old women. You wouldn't know a genuine opportunity if it came and smashed you in the face!
Timmy 11 April 2009

Posted by Timmy 11 April 2009

1. As a piece of free advice, and FWIW to you, your reception on ASF will be warmer if you contribute to the forum with some posts/threads discussing some trades (winners and losers - no one is perfect), what triggered the entry, the exit etc. There is the occasional person providing a good/service on ASF who does contribute positively in such a manner, and of course such contributions are valued more highly than simply those setting forth the case for some good/service.


Posted by Bill Stacey 12 April 2009

Mod you can delete all links and can delete all my posts or even this whole stupid thread.

Jaxon, cutz and all your other gutless lurkers you are defaming me and calling me a liar and I take offence at your accusations. Every single word on my website is true. All trades are real and can be proven. You are small and useless people who will never amount to anything.........

25 February 2012 - For over two years you have threatened to leave ASF and we continue to put up with your psychotic episodes however entertaining they may be at times.

Only yesterday Trembling Hand asked you to put up some factual trades and you pull out data as far back as 2009???? You're not really putting up much about anything that would cause you to gain some credibility and one would really wonder why you persist with such longwinded posts.

I'm not much of an expert at anything and I dont profess to be, but with a large number of years of lifes experience I would contend that a Phsychologist should be able to help you with your problems

 

[OneDayWealth]

I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.

I buy options with the intention of selling them days or weeks later. I never wish to exercise them so my ultimate risk is what I paid for that option full stop. It's irrelevant to me how much "exposure" the underlying options have as I (being the buyer) have no intention of ever exercising them.

And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.

Don't know if that helps.

Exactly! I too have seen the larger moves but don't like to focus on them, if they happen they happen but I expect 5-10% two or three times a week and that's enough. If you are really good at TA you can use far less than 20k to make a couple of grand a week. With as little as $5k at risk you can replace your wage if you're good with charts. I see missed opportunities all the time.

Thanks for your post you hit the nail directly on the head!

 

[Trembling Hand]

I'm a little surprised that a few posters on here cannot see that buying an option only to sell it again (whether it's puts or calls) does not carry any more exposure than what you paid for the option.

Dude what we are arguing is that its a very poor way to gain exposure to your trade idea. Just look at the ANZ example.

You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost. Its a dumb way to day trade.

And yes I have seen option prices move 20,30,40...100%+ in a single day.

Yeah? So what? thats moves on minimum margin. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?

 

[skyQuake]

lol@ webiress being used by "most brokers and traders"

Crossing the spread on oppies all the time while waiting for lagging indicators is definitely a statically losing strat.
Why do you think Optiver/Timberhill/Tibra/Susq/IMC have stayed in business that long?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Exactly! I too have seen the larger moves but don't like to focus on them, if they happen they happen but I expect 5-10% two or three times a week and that's enough. If you are really good at TA you can use far less than 20k to make a couple of grand a week. With as little as $5k at risk you can replace your wage if you're good with charts. I see missed opportunities all the time.

I bet you cannot.

How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.

For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.

U


Me

 

[ColB]

I bet you cannot.

How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.

For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.

U
View attachment 46201

Me
View attachment 46200

Time to put up or shut up Bill! Quite simple really.

I'm tipping we'll need a mod to verify the authenticity of your trades though......OR is it going to be the usual deflection of 'I don't need to prove anything' or tell us to all 'crawl under our rocks again'

What's it gunna be Bill?

 

[OneDayWealth]

I bet you cannot.

How about you post 20 live trades as they happen over the next two weeks in whatever instrument you think is best for day trading and I'll do the same if you like. I have no idea where I'll end up but at a guess 60% win rate 1:2 R:R. for me.

For you?? I reckon you won't even be able to do it cause you work at a car wash blacking tyres.

U
View attachment 46201

Me
View attachment 46200

Not only is $5,000 plenty to make enough money to replace the average wage I've done it a few times and seen others do it as well. It's less stressful to use more money and stay in the market for less time thereby minimising the risk. The fact that you don't know that really does prove your inexperience in the method yet again. You've already proven you don't have any experience in day trading options so your comments aren't really relevant to this discussion. You've already proven you make massive mistakes in your calculations and don't have the most basic grasp of the topic. It's hard to have a reasonable debate with someone who makes hundred thousand dollar mistakes.

I have nothing I need to prove to the likes of you. I'm far beyond and well over stupid forced trading competitions. Real trading is never forced so it will prove nothing. If I don't find a good trade one day and you do what will that prove? Nothing. If anything it will prove that I don't force trades like you want me to do. In fact that proves you will lose because if you force trades just to prove a point you are a loser trader right there. It shows weak mental skills and will lose you money very fast. I suggest you re-evaluate your trading methods if you think forcing trades is proof of skill. It's proof of stupidity.

Again, if you don't know that options can move enough in a day to make money or how to take advantage of these moves then I think that says everything that needs to be said and you are the one that has some homework to do. Others do and they also know how to take advantage of these moves. Just because you have no idea how to take advantage of market moves in this way doesn't prove anything other than you don't have the skills to do it or at best don't want to do it because you have found something you are comfortable with - Fine, you do what you want to do and I'll do what I want to do. The two are not mutually exclusive. Stop trying to position yourself as the only one with a trading method. You're not and your inability to accept another method just proves how immature you are (as does your stupid picture posting below - really?).

I've proven my case over and over and over again to you and everyone and have been proving it day after day for years and years since I discovered it was possible. Options have been moving more than enough to make more than enough money since they were invented. If you don't know that then you should stay out of debates you are not experienced enough in to be in. Besides, it's really hard to take anyone serious who is hundreds of thousands of dollars wrong in their argument. Bought a battery for your calculator yet?...lol

As it happens I have other things I can and will be doing over the next few weeks. However (and more to the point), I don't trade every day or every week and I'm certainly not going to stop what I'm doing to "prove" a fact that already exists just to keep you happy (least of all you!). I can post pics like the one you just posted all day long (in fact I have a real one I took years ago with more monitors than you posted - what does that prove? Nothing. I use two monitors max and can trade with just one if need be (e.g. a laptop), proves nothing (anyone of us can copy pics from google images) and you're wrong, I don't work at a car wash so stop trying to be a smart **** - you're not even any good at that.

Sky... thanks you for your intelligent and considered post but there's clearly nothing wrong with using indicators (lagging or otherwise) - if it works - or else trend lines would have been abandoned by every trader in the world. What you are saying flies in the face of every TA trader on the planet. I suppose you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong? Welcome to this bizarre debate - you'll fit right in.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Time to put up or shut up Bill! Quite simple really.

I'm tipping we'll need a mod to verify the authenticity of your trades though......OR is it going to be the usual deflection of 'I don't need to prove anything' or tell us to all 'crawl under our rocks again'

What's it gunna be Bill?

Very clever - not. Any fool can put up a useless/pointless challenge that proves they are a careless trader. Forced trading comps have been proven to be useless pointless and even dangerous. You challenge means nothing to anyone with a clue. It's not that I don't have to prove (though I clearly don't), It's that I've already proven it hundreds (and probably thousands) of times already. If I win all it means is that my style of trading worked during those days and if you win all it means is that your style of trading worked during those days. In both cases it proves that forced trading is dangerous and any comp that aims to prove that is dangerous as well.

Excellent suggestion about your rocks though. I'm glad you raised it.

 

[ColB]

"...I have nothing I need to prove to the likes of you...."

"...I've proven my case over and over and over again to you and everyone and have been proving it day after day for years and years since I discovered it was possible...."

"...As it happens I have other things I can and will be doing over the next few weeks. ..."

Well well well, how predictable, couldn't haven written the script better. Just knew you would say you have nothing to prove and not prepared to take on TH because simply you know you couldn't win.

I am sure the vast majority here are sick of your ramblings, in fact it would make for a good ASF Poll [What about it mods]

I take it you're tidying your sock drawer over the next few weeks.

 

[lindsayf]

this is just like season 1

but still very good indeed.

 

[Trembling Hand]

You've already proven you make massive mistakes in your calculations and don't have the most basic grasp of the topic. It's hard to have a reasonable debate with someone who makes hundred thousand dollar mistakes.

There was no mistake you silly bugger. The mistake is you think controlling 27000 anz shares with $20,000 is wise. You have no idea what position sizing is or risk adjusted returns looks like. As with all snake oilers you quote return on minimum margin. as the old saying goes,

Minimum margin = minimum brains.

(anyone of us can copy pics from google images)

Yeah I just found another one,

 

[OneDayWealth]

Well well well, how predictable, couldn't haven written the script better. Just knew you would say you have nothing to prove and not prepared to take on TH because simply you know you couldn't win.

I am sure the vast majority here are sick of your ramblings, in fact it would make for a good ASF Poll [What about it mods]

I take it you're tidying your sock drawer over the next few weeks.

Your response and challenge is the most predictable of all. It's so easy for you to sit there and pick your nose and flick bogies at the screen - how ordinary. It's got nothing to do with winning (I've already won). It's got to do with stupid challenges that prove only one thing - how dangerously you can trade by forcing the market to do what you want it to do. What will that prove? Nothing.

 

[tech/a]

Your response and challenge is the most predictable of all. It's so easy for you to sit there and pick your nose and flick bogies at the screen - how ordinary. It's got nothing to do with winning (I've already won). It's got to do with stupid challenges that prove only one thing - how dangerously you can trade by forcing the market to do what you want it to do. What will that prove? Nothing.

A trades a trade.
It wins or it loses.
Posted up 100 s
Can't see the problem?