Bill Stacy?

[OneDayWealth]

There was no mistake you silly bugger. The mistake is you think controlling 27000 anz shares with $20,000 is wise. You have no idea what position sizing is or risk adjusted returns looks like. As with all snake oilers you quote return on minimum margin. as the old saying goes,

Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a massive mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying. In this case you got it massively wrong. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.

 

[tech/a]

Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a massive mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying. In this case you got it massively wrong. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.

Ahh got it.
It's personal.

Self assassination always a good look.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Ahh got it.
It's personal.

Self assassination always a good look.

Lol, where've you been? This whole thread is about a personal attack...on me! You should go back and read some of the insane and extremely personal and vicious attacks made on me before you pull me up.

 

[tech/a]

Lol, where've you been? This whole thread is about a personal attack...on me! You should go back and read some of the insane and extremely personal and vicious attacks made on me before you pull me up.

Your supposed to be a professional with a business.
The "rest" are potential clients so to are the invisible who
Watch.
You have everything to loose particularly with social media as it is.

Just google Bill Stacy and you'll get this thread.

Pretty dumb behavior but hey knock yourself out!

 

[Gringotts Bank]

this is just like season 1

but still very good indeed.

lol, excellent

 

[OneDayWealth]

Your supposed to be a professional with a business.
The "rest" are potential clients so to are the invisible who
Watch.
You have everything to loose particularly with social media as it is.

Just google Bill Stacy and you'll get this thread.

Pretty dumb behavior but hey knock yourself out!

On the contrary.

I've never made myself out to be anything other than a bloke with information. I hate the word guru and have always pushed it away when labeled as one. This thread is actually doing me a huge favour - I love it! The more you post the better I look (according to much recent feedback and the last few sales). The worst thing that could happen is for mods to delete this thread so the more you abuse me the better I look and the better it is for me. I have stood firm and answered to every query, attack and silly comment. Keep them coming - please.

 

[wayneL]

On the contrary.

I've never made myself out to be anything other than a bloke with information. I hate the word guru and have always pushed it away when labeled as one. This thread is actually doing me a huge favour - I love it! The more you post the better I look (according to much recent feedback and the last few sales). The worst thing that could happen is for mods to delete this thread so the more you abuse me the better I look and the better it is for me. I have stood firm and answered to every query, attack and silly comment. Keep them coming - please.

LMAO!

 

[Trembling Hand]

Denying it won't make it go away. I know it must be hard to swallow (especially when you're clearly so good at it) when you make such a massive mistake in front of all your misguided "fans". I'd be embarrassed as hell as well. Oh well, at least when you **** up you **** up big. And I know that the only way for you to get any respect back is to challenge me to an arm wrestle...lol. Just accept it, you have no clue when it comes to day trading options. There's no shame in that. So you made a three hundred thousand dollar mistake in your calculations in front of everyone you're trying to impress. It happens. The lesson you should learn is not to butt in where you don't belong and not to open your mouth unless you're sure of what you're saying. In this case you got it massively wrong. Maybe next time you'll be luckier with your guesses.

You joker. Where is the mistake???????????

Minimum margin for 27 options was about 20 g. For the same underling shares it was just over 300g.

Where is the mistake scammer?

One of your many many mistakes is you thing Minimum margin is all that matters. In that case why not trade the same size with CFDs you will only have to put up 15g. Makes your return look even better.

 

[ftw129]

Dude what we are arguing is that its a very poor way to gain exposure to your trade idea. Just look at the ANZ example.

You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost. Its a dumb way to day trade.

Yeah? So what? thats moves on minimum margin. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?

Apologies for bringing this up again....

You may be correct and excuse my ignorance....

What do you mean when you say "You have to buy huge positions and gain a fraction of the move. While exposing yourself to outsized cost."

and

"Yeah? So what? thats moves on minimum margin. What are the risk adjusted moves? whats going to stop you getting - 10% -30% for a few days each week and copping your account in half?"

I'm not trying to prove myself right or wrong I just genuinely want to know what you mean as it's not making sense to me.

Here is how I trade...

I've learned basic TA skills and like to keep them as simple as possible. I'll buy a stock outright for most of my trades to benefit from an upward move but this will usually take up a fair bit of my capital so I may only own 2-3 stocks at any given time and usually not hold them longer than a few weeks (i'm trading with a 60k bank)..

However, if it's a big blue chip stock and I'm really confident of my trade (and it has options) then I'll trade the options just because I need a much smaller move in the stock to make the same return.

For example.... (and I'm going out on a limb here because I'm in this trade now and the pressure of knowing that others know what trade I'm in may cause me to trade erratically) WPL has had a nice break to the upside on good volume and looks like a double bottom both on the weekly and the day... First point of resistance $40 with a medium term target of $48.

On Thursday 23rd of Feb I bought 22 contracts of the WPL April $37.71 calls @ $1.38 (WPL was trading at around $38). This is the equivalent of owning almost $83,000 worth of stock... Now I'm expecting the stock to reach the $40 mark within the next few trading days...

I don't want to tie up $83K in one trade so tying up 3k to make the same amount of profit on the move to $40 as I would with $83k is a lot more appealing as I have the rest of that money tied up in other stocks/trades.

When I look at this trade now (in hindsight) it's not one I'm actually comfortable risking 3k on (even though I planned to exit if the option dropped to 1.5K) as the resistance coming up at $40 is only $2.14 away but by my estimates that's enough to make the value of the option rise by about 50%????

In any case, the profit to be made for a rise to $40 is about the same on 3K as it is with 83K is it not?

I'm not a professional, I'm not saying I'm right and I'm open to criticism. This is what I've gathered and I'm risking profit here maybe to learn the hard way?

9/10 of my trades are long stock trades (not options). I only use the options after a good run and I have some money to lose because I know that as the stock turns in the other direction the option loses value just as fast. I also use options when I'm bearish on a stock as Commsec do not allow short trades so in this case I'll buy puts. I made a 30% return on NCM in 2 days (on the downside) and the stock only dropped like 90 cents.

I like Options but they aren't for the faint hearted and you have to have the guts to trust your analysis but by the sounds of it there's a better way to trade these little moves with less risk and more return?

(I feel as though I just took a step out into a firing range! LOL)

 

[IFocus]

this is just like season 1

but still very good indeed.

lol, excellent

Must admit missed season 1 but have seen the story line before LOL

 

[OneDayWealth]

Where is the mistake???????????

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13721&p=686749&viewfull=1#post686749

LMAO $300grand - pretty embarrassing eh? Especially when you were running so hard trying to "catch me out" you stumbled and fell splat right into your own steaming pile of... it was classic. I even got emails and one sms on it! People were laughing sooo hard. Sorry, I shouldn't rub it in quite so hard but it did blow a fairly large hole in your credibility.

That's ok man, you can't win them all. I guess the rage of your own jealousy got the better of you. I can imagine having your bubble burst in public when you had your chest all puffed up like that would have been a pretty big blow to your ego. 300 grand is a pretty big "whoops".

That's cool, I forgive you. It can be hard to think clearly and simply sometimes when you're so full of rage. Just go back to basics (maybe a cup of tea and a good lie down will help?) and you'll get it eventually I'm sure.

 

[OneDayWealth]

...I don't want to tie up $83K in one trade so tying up 3k to make the same amount of profit on the move to $40 as I would with $83k is a lot more appealing...

You got it. 3k risk instead of $83k risk is a smarter and more obvious trade though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.

 

[OneDayWealth]

...why not trade the same size with CFDs...

Why? Because CFDs involve massive borrowing and (as I've said many times) I hate borrowing to trade. I like to use straight cash, buy and sell. Easy to understand, easy to do, great profit and crazy cheap (compared to buying the stock).

 

[ftw129]

though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.

Bill,

I hate holding Options for as long as I do but I work full time and cannot screen watch all day... In saying that, I'm not taking anybody's side here but I do see how what you are saying that you do is pretty simple (and can easily be achieved) it's just that the people on here are looking for some cold, hard evidence that you can do it on a consistent basis and even if you can, whether or not your students have been doing so as well?

REALLY, what I see that is in question here is not what you do (as it's pretty basic to see that what you do is clearly plausible) BUT whether or not it's possible to "package" that and sell it on so that anyone can do it if they follow your model/s?

I'm not sure how that can be proven here?

 

[TeleSonic]

Buying options is utilizing leverage, margin doesn't come into it. It's a valid and common strategy used by short term speculators. Sure, an option position has different profit and loss characteristics to the physical underlying; that's how they were designed as a hedging vehicle. It's also why they are attractive to short term traders willing to accept the added risk that comes with the potential for leveraged profits. Saying its a dumb way to trade is just ignorant. My most profitable trades have been with bought options, risking a know maximum dollar amount for over 500% return on many occasions. Sure beats a 1:2 R/R....

What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. My experience is with index and currency options, but id imagine ASX equity options have wider spreads and gap more. Maybe ATM it isn't an issue? What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan. You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.

 

[TeleSonic]

You got it. 3k risk instead of $83k risk is a smarter and more obvious trade though I never advise holding options overnight which is another issue all together.

Be fair though Bill. That $3k option position has a real possibility of being worth $500 or nothing very quickly if things turn south. It would be worth $0 a long time before the $83k stock position traded at $80k. Very different risk characteristics and that's the flip side to getting exposure to movements in the underlying cheaply.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Bill,

I hate holding Options for as long as I do but I work full time and cannot screen watch all day... In saying that, I'm not taking anybody's side here but I do see how what you are saying that you do is pretty simple (and can easily be achieved) it's just that the people on here are looking for some cold, hard evidence that you can do it on a consistent basis and even if you can, whether or not your students have been doing so as well?

REALLY, what I see that is in question here is not what you do (as it's pretty basic to see that what you do is clearly plausible) BUT whether or not it's possible to "package" that and sell it on so that anyone can do it if they follow your model/s?

I'm not sure how that can be proven here?

Fair enough but after doing it for years it's a bit rich for me to have to explain it to anyone. Especially to these guys who are so rude and disrespectful and even more when they refuse to see the facts even after I've explained them many times. Not sure what to say, I explain what I do and more importantly exactly how I do it, what I look out for and the risks and signals...etc. Some do very well, some don't find they have the ticker for it and others I never hear from again.

Having said that i do call some from time to time and ask how they are going and they say "fine" we do a trade every now and then and yet others keep it in their tool bag and use it when they feel like it. I've done heaps of courses and I certainly don;t use them all exactly as I was taught. I also explain that my course is mostly about "how" to do it because how I do it is what makes it possible as many people have no idea how to day trade options. You have to lay things out in a specific way and look out for certain things and of course have a fast sheet to tell you where you are, not necessarily "when" to do it for which I refer them to other TA courses but help as much as I can with a couple of safe rules for newbies and regular (top 10) patterns for experienced traders.

The traders who are most successful at day trading options (my way) are those who are really good at TA. They make MUCH more than 5-10% use FAR less than 20k and trade easier and more confidently. Newbies are advised to go and study candlesticks, breakout patterns...etc all of which apply nicely to this style of high speed trading. I don't claim to be all things to all people. I am just "most" pieces of the puzzle and I make that very clear before I take a cent off anyone.

...What worries me about Bill's approach is the ability to contain loses to predefined % levels. ...What I can say though is that you need to have reflex's like a cat and it can be bloody stressful when things don't go to plan. You better love screen time and you better be able to execute without second guessing. Certainly not something I'd want to teach anyone but the most risk tolerant of experienced traders.

I understand but that's a common misconception (that you're staring at a screen all day). I rarely sit there "all day" and "staring at a screen" is no different to doing IM or any other computer based job. The only time you really have to sit up is when you're on a trade and as long as the stock stays above my MA I stay in. As soon as I get three candles against or it drops (or pops) a candle below (or above) my simple MA I hop out. People are often surprised at how easy (and simple) it is. Of course there's a lot of TA and experience that got me here but it can be taught to another option trader in just a few hours actually - done it heaps of times.

It's only stressful when you don't have the correct layouts and calculators (I made my own and haven't changed them for years). The screen time is minimal, some trades only last a few minutes. Sometimes I just sit down, see something "going off" hop on, hop off when I make enough or things looks shaky then get on with the rest of my day. I compare it to working in a factory and prefer to sit calmly and casually in my office at my convenience (never before 11am) instead of grinding my way to a low paid crappy dead end job.

As for whether it's teachable, I guess you'll have to ask the people who bought my course. I've had only a few refund requests from the hundreds I've sold (most of those didn't even try and just changed their minds) but from the feedback I've received over the years I'm guessing I'm a pretty good teacher and have had comments saying as much. It's actually quite easy to teach and get, the problem is if you have the nerve for it. Most of my members have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the market anyway and see this as a way to "play with the fast side". Not so strangely, many make more doing this than they make with their massive portfolios - many of which are smaller than when they started.

 

[OneDayWealth]

Be fair though Bill. That $3k option position has a real possibility of being worth $500 or nothing very quickly if things turn south. It would be worth $0 a long time before the $83k stock position traded at $80k. Very different risk characteristics and that's the flip side to getting exposure to movements in the underlying cheaply.

True, but I hold for very short moves/times only and besides, how many people have $80 grand to throw around? I'm all about escaping the rat race as soon as possible with as little risk as possile plus I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.

 

[ftw129]

True, but I hold for very short moves/times only. I've only ever seen tears and despair for long term option traders.

LOL yeah well I don't know about tears and despair... Like I said I usually play options only with profits and out of the 40 or more bought options trades that I've ever made I've never actually lost 100%...

 

[OneDayWealth]

LOL yeah well I don't know about tears and despair... Like I said I usually play options only with profits and out of the 40 or more bought options trades that I've ever made I've never actually lost 100%...

Good to hear. I wish I'd heard it more often.