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Beggars a sign of the times, or a sign of the welfare state?

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I wasn't sure where to put this, but with recent events happening in Melbourne --


A homeless camp has engulfed the Australian Open’s main gateway, stunning visitors faced with aggression and rampant drug use.

The makeshift camp outside Flinders St station — the main travel hub for those visiting the Open — was growing in Tuesday’s heat, despite attempts to remove people from the site.

Dirty bedding, rubbish, pet waste, food scraps and discarded clothes littered the site.

Several rough sleepers aggressively pursued locals and visitors.

And many were photographed using drug paraphernalia.

Council denies link between Flinders St homeless camp clean-up and Australian Open
Melbourne Council announces crackdown on homeless tents pitched in city streets
Melbourne’s city streets to be swept clean of ‘unsightly’ homeless camps
Half of people sleeping on streets not genuine homeless: Salvation Army

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...y/news-story/67b9210712c3b496cbf0a7f7584d8680

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Pressure is mounting on authorities to act on the growing homeless camp at Flinders Street Station which has left visitors to the Australian Open shocked and appalled.

Tourists are still being greeted by a huge slum outside the station on their way to Melbourne park for the tennis.

The Salvation Army's Major Brendan Nottle says homelessness in Melbourne is a growing problem.

The Victorian Chamber of Commerce and Industry says Melbourne is at risk of losing its title of the world's most liveable city due to the growing homeless camps around the city.

VECCI Chief Executive Mark Stone has told 3AW Breakfast it's not a good look and there was evidence of "blatant" drug-taking.

"We've got shoppers, we've got tourists, we've got parents with kids in the city and it's just unacceptable people are allowed to take drugs out in the open and not have some sort of sanction taken against them," he said.

Lord Mayor Robert Doyle says the council is doing what it can, regularly cleaning the camps.

The Opposition says it's time to re-introduce move-on laws and take a no tolerance approach to drug use in public.
 
Bourke Street killer James Gargasoulas handed life sentence

James Gargasoulas has been sentenced to life in prison for the Bourke Street massacre.

He was handed his jail sentence on Friday.

Gargasoulas killed six people and injured dozens of others when he drove a stolen car down Bourke Street in January, 2017.

Justice Mark Weinberg described it as “one of the worst examples of mass murder in Australia’s history.”

He said he did not accept that Gargasoulas was genuinely remorseful.

A jury needed just 57 minutes to find him guilty of 33 charges in November last year.

He has a non-parole period of 46 years.

https://www.3aw.com.au/bourke-street-killer-james-gargasoulas-learns-his-fate-in-court/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02...ver-james-gargasoulas-sentence-court/10835370
 
There seems to be a lot of homeless on George and Pitt Street in Sydney. The cost of housing must be making it difficult to get rentals.
 
HI SP

That is prime territory there, the beggars have fought over the best spots.

Once the weekday working crowds are gone home most of the beggars pack up and head back to their own homes and count their tax free dollars.

The social workers have offered then accommodation and jobs, they earn more begging so they stay on the streets during the day.
 
Hi macca, we are really enjoying the extra long weekend in Sydney.
Went on the train to Newcastle on Friday, nice place looks like it is reinventing itself after the earthquake and steel closures, will end up really nice I reckon.
Saturday walked from central Stn, near where we are staying, down to and over the bridge, then headed back up Pitt St.
Today down to Wollongong on the train, magic system you have here, if I was homeless I would be heading this way.
Some great places, shame about the rain.
 
Hi SP,

When they said they were closing BHP I was a lone voice among a weeping mob when I said "best thing ever" just buy houses near BHP and hold for 15 years.

No way a place two hours from Sydney with a deep water port, rail connections and plenty of power was ever going to "DIE" as per panic merchants

The council did there best to stop development, they stuffed people around for a decade but eventually the silent majority said enough is enough and voted in a developer as Lord Mayor.

That got things going PDQ and now it is looking pretty good but I really hate the trams going down the main street. I believe they should have had electric buses using the old rail corridor instead of narrowing the streets.

we are off topic, naughty aren't we
 
I must say, they have some excellent meal and beverage deals on George St, Im feeling well watered and fed for a very reasonable price.lol
 
macca said:
Hi SP,

When they said they were closing BHP I was a lone voice among a weeping mob when I said "best thing ever" just buy houses near BHP and hold for 15 years.

No way a place two hours from Sydney with a deep water port, rail connections and plenty of power was ever going to "DIE" as per panic merchants

The council did there best to stop development, they stuffed people around for a decade but eventually the silent majority said enough is enough and voted in a developer as Lord Mayor.

That got things going PDQ and now it is looking pretty good but I really hate the trams going down the main street. I believe they should have had electric buses using the old rail corridor instead of narrowing the streets.

we are off topic, naughty aren't we
Click to expand...
Yes the tram is a bit silly, we took it to the end and walked back to the train, it really doesn't make a lot of sense unless they are going to extend it somewhere.
 
Value Collector said:
No, the cost of ICE, Heroin and alcohol make it difficult to get rentals.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that everyone trying to rent a house is a druggie or alcoholic ?

That's a pretty vile statement in my view.

a. blokes who get kicked out of the house by the wife but who still have to pay child maintenance and mortgages.

b. single mothers who get kicked out by abusive partners trying to put a roof over their heads and pay child care while they are working.

Get real mate, I thought you believed in safety nets.
 
SirRumpole said:
So you are saying that everyone trying to rent a house is a druggie or alcoholic ?

That's a pretty vile statement in my view.
Click to expand...

What???

We are talking about beggars and homeless people, I am saying a lot of homeless people aren’t homeless because rent is to high, it’s because they have addictions to drugs and alcohol that consume their available money.

The majority of Longterm Homeless people are either addicts or have mental problems.

Safety nets such as the dole mean no one needs to be longterm homeless if it weren’t for other vices or undiagnosed mental disability.
 
Value Collector said:
What???

We are talking about beggars and homeless people, I am saying a lot of homeless people aren’t homeless because rent is to high, it’s because they have addictions to drugs and alcohol that consume their available money.

The majority of Longterm Homeless people are either addicts or have mental problems.

Safety nets such as the dole mean no one needs to be longterm homeless if it weren’t for other vices or undiagnosed mental disability.
Click to expand...

Well you can't make a blanket statement like you did and ignore people that I've pointed out who don't have drug or alcohol problems but have had adverse changes in their circumstances.
 
I like you Rumpy. A self funded retiree who has obviously contributed a lot to this Nation and still has concern for those battling. That's a great heart right there.
 
SirRumpole said:
Well you can't make a blanket statement like you did and ignore people that I've pointed out who don't have drug or alcohol problems but have had adverse changes in their circumstances.
Click to expand...

No need to get your knickers in a twist mate, my statement was simply my round about way of pointing out that the longterm homeless rate shouldn’t be blamed on the cost of housing as much as it should be blamed on drug and alcohol and mental disabilities.

If we don’t understand the cause, how can we expect to help?

I think I must have made a 100 statements on here that I believe in social safety nets and free health care etc, if anyone wants to think that I don’t believe in helping those that get the rough end of the stick that says more about them than it does me.
 
Value Collector said:
What???
The majority of Longterm Homeless people are either addicts or have mental problems.

Safety nets such as the dole mean no one needs to be longterm homeless if it weren’t for other vices or undiagnosed mental disability.
Click to expand...

WOW, that has to be one of the most naive statements I have read for a long time.

Even with a diagnosed mental disability does mean you will not end up homeless, the facilities and services offered in this country are inadequate to deal with the growing mental illness issue.

Being an addict is having a mental disability/illness and without care and treatment is by definition difficult to kick.

But I ask you this; If the majority of homeless people are addicts or mentally ill, how many were not before they became homeless?
 
satanoperca said:
WOW, that has to be one of the most naive statements I have read for a long time.

Even with a diagnosed mental disability does mean you will not end up homeless, the facilities and services offered in this country are inadequate to deal with the growing mental illness issue.

Being an addict is having a mental disability/illness and without care and treatment is by definition difficult to kick.

But I ask you this; If the majority of homeless people are addicts or mentally ill, how many were not before they became homeless?
Click to expand...

Mate, that’s exactly what I am saying.

I am saying that mental health is the cause of a lot of homelessness.

I perhaps should have said “untreated” and not “undiagnosed”.

But my point is simply that in Australia, there is not really any need for longterm homelessness if you are a rational clear thinking person free from mental health disorders and addictions or other similar vices.
 
Value Collector said:
I think I must have made a 100 statements on here that I believe in social safety nets and free health care etc, if anyone wants to think that I don’t believe in helping those that get the rough end of the stick that says more about them than it does me.
Click to expand...

Yes, I get that you believe in safety nets, but the fact is that Australia is one of the most expensive places in the world to live, and that includes renting.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/your-budget/2014/03/05/everything-australia-expensive/
 
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