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Beggars a sign of the times, or a sign of the welfare state?

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CanOz said:
Really? My opinion is that Uber is a really smart use of the smart phone. I have experienced Uber in China, Australia and Europe. All of these experiences have been 100 x more pleasant than sitting in a dirty taxi with a stinking driver that last had a bath and brushed their teeth when the dinosaurs were roaming the earth. I'm tired of paying too much money to an underpaid, under educated middle man. I'd rather have a middle class dad or mum, making a few bucks in their spare time with their new car. I have great conversations, in a clean comfortable car. They don't try and rip me off, like taxi drivers do, because they can't, they have to follow the GPS. I've been ripped off by taxi drivers in Australia, the US, China, Thailand, Germany, Canada, France, the UK, and Hong Kong. I've never had a bad experience with Uber.

Wake up to yourself.:banghead:
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oh yea? Just your typical mum and dad who happen to be on the way to somewhere and thought to swing by a few blocks and give stranger a ride for a few bucks?

OK then.

Get real dude. Time to stop reading Uber's press release.

It's the same thing I saw in countries like VN where unemploy people work during the day and in the evening take their motobike out to earn a few extra bucks; Or the completely unemployed ones sitting on street corners.

VN shut that down some ten years ago too... for "safety" and maybe hygiene problem. Not at all because the comrades bought into a handful of taxi companies.
 
luutzu said:
oh yea? Just your typical mum and dad who happen to be on the way to somewhere and thought to swing by a few blocks and give stranger a ride for a few bucks?

OK then.

Get real dude. Time to stop reading Uber's press release.

It's the same thing I saw in countries like VN where unemploy people work during the day and in the evening take their motobike out to earn a few extra bucks; Or the completely unemployed ones sitting on street corners.

VN shut that down some ten years ago too... for "safety" and maybe hygiene problem. Not at all because the comrades bought into a handful of taxi companies.
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Somewhat like Singapore, where if you are an early riser as I am, you see the old people sweeping the streets.

There is no way that will happen here, our old people deserve to have a good retirement at the RSL, most have paid taxes all their lives,
Those who have saved for retirement, will pay for it.:D
 
luutzu said:
oh yea? Just your typical mum and dad who happen to be on the way to somewhere and thought to swing by a few blocks and give stranger a ride for a few bucks?

OK then.

Get real dude. Time to stop reading Uber's press release.

It's the same thing I saw in countries like VN where unemploy people work during the day and in the evening take their motobike out to earn a few extra bucks; Or the completely unemployed ones sitting on street corners.

VN shut that down some ten years ago too... for "safety" and maybe hygiene problem. Not at all because the comrades bought into a handful of taxi companies.
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How many ubers have you taken? I've taken them all, taxis, tuk tuks, motorbikes, limos, xiao Fe longs....ubers still wins DUDE!
 
CanOz said:
How many ubers have you taken? I've taken them all, taxis, tuk tuks, motorbikes, limos, xiao Fe longs....ubers still wins DUDE!
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The problem with uber, in Perth, is you can't pre book them.

The other problem with a non regulated system, is it is open to corruption, as is the case with tuk tuk's in phuket.

A group takes it over, and then apply gangster tactics, to keep out competition.

There is no perfect way.IMO

The problem we have, is a rapid reduction in jobs and a rapid increase on welfare demand, both from unemployment and aging population.

It is very difficult to reconcile the two.
 
CanOz said:
How many ubers have you taken? I've taken them all, taxis, tuk tuks, motorbikes, limos, xiao Fe longs....ubers still wins DUDE!
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For the consumer, Uber is the way. Not arguing with you there.

Point I was trying to make is that it's a sign of a deteriorating economy when non-taxi people need to earn extra cash by offering what is essentially a taxi service.

For some Uber driver, it may very well be that they're on the way to some place nearby etc., for others it's most likely that it's a temporary job between jobs or a source of additional revenue after hours.
 
sptrawler said:
Somewhat like Singapore, where if you are an early riser as I am, you see the old people sweeping the streets.

There is no way that will happen here, our old people deserve to have a good retirement at the RSL, most have paid taxes all their lives,
Those who have saved for retirement, will pay for it.:D
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I think it's only fair that the old folks should be looked after when they can't work anymore.

But the way things are going, when I am old I'll only have my kids to rely on - and so good luck with that too, ha ha.

All the taxes and medicare surcharge I've been paying but rarely if ever use all these years... I guess they all goes to the dear leaders and their lifetime pensions :xyxthumbs

Good social contract yea?

Good things not too many Australians are rich enough to have Fonsec Monsecca calling us up - so AMP financial planners will have to do :D
 
luutzu said:
For the consumer, Uber is the way. Not arguing with you there.

Point I was trying to make is that it's a sign of a deteriorating economy when non-taxi people need to earn extra cash by offering what is essentially a taxi service.

For some Uber driver, it may very well be that they're on the way to some place nearby etc., for others it's most likely that it's a temporary job between jobs or a source of additional revenue after hours.
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With unemployment rising and personal debt at an all time high, people will do whatever is required, to meet their obligations.

The problem the Government has, is trying to integrate, new technology allowing a more efficient medium, and still be able to tax it.

As opposed to a century old technology, that really was a monopoly due to exorbitant license fees, which in turn resulted in exorbitant fares.

Our whole fiscal system, is really being tested at the moment.:1zhelp:
 
Getting a ride is not a matter of life and death, the consumer will decide about Uber.

Socially it seems a good system. A way to meet people other than monosyllabic taxi drivers.
 
sptrawler said:
With unemployment rising and personal debt at an all time high, people will do whatever is required, to meet their obligations.

The problem the Government has, is trying to integrate, new technology allowing a more efficient medium, and still be able to tax it.

As opposed to a century old technology, that really was a monopoly due to exorbitant license fees, which in turn resulted in exorbitant fares.

Our whole fiscal system, is really being tested at the moment.:1zhelp:
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I'm sure you're right. I don't know much about the Taxi industry but it does seem to be outdated and cost way too much.

Uber is fair enough. I wasn't criticizing it. It should be adopted by taxi drivers by all means.

Was saying that its popularity among non-taxi drivers taking it up to complement their income is a sign the economy isn't going well.

We better get real serious about funding education and high skilled jobs before the gas and ore ran out. Keep this up and as Mearsheimer predicts, in 30 years China would be able to stop by to really say Ni Hao (or is it Che Che? better polish up on my Mandarin)
 
luutzu said:
I'm sure you're right. I don't know much about the Taxi industry but it does seem to be outdated and cost way too much.

Uber is fair enough. I wasn't criticizing it. It should be adopted by taxi drivers by all means.

Was saying that its popularity among non-taxi drivers taking it up to complement their income is a sign the economy isn't going well.

We better get real serious about funding education and high skilled jobs before the gas and ore ran out. Keep this up and as Mearsheimer predicts, in 30 years China would be able to stop by to really say Ni Hao (or is it Che Che? better polish up on my Mandarin)
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Agree with you completely, the problem we have, is we are so used to a system that does allow no acountabilty and responsibility.
We have lost the ability to take responsibility for our own decisions, every one thinks awe well if I ff up there will be the Government to bail me out.
The problem is, the situation is escalating at a rapid rate and like Greece, with a small population the ability to pay everyone a welfare payment becomes problematic.

The first thing we need to do, is re introduce testing of children, and find out where the education system is failing.
The adopted method of not putting the children under pressure, has resulted in a rapid race to mediocrity.IMO

If the testing shows there is a lack of teaching skills, give the teachers the opportunity to access courses to improve their skills, if that doesn't work give them the option of retraining for a different career.

Move teacher training out of uni's and back to teacher training college, where out of work engineers, geologists or any other profession, can be tested for their suitability to be teachers.

That is the key, their suitability isn't dependent on a rubber stamp, YOU HAVE FINISHED THE PRESCRIBED COURSE, YOU ARE A TEACHER.

The dumbest move ever for Australia.IMO

My rant, this week.lol
 
sptrawler said:
I find it rather disconcerting, seeing beggars on our streets, we have a very good welfare system and to see beggars on the street is off putting.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscri...ab7ee4514fe4164e52b3b466391&memtype=anonymous

Is it because we don't pay them enough, or is it due to their choices?

I'm sure some have mental illness, but what about those who are able bodied, but chose that lifestyle?:confused:
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Do the beggars you see have scabs on their faces, if so they are probably ice addicts.
 
Value Collector said:
Do the beggars you see have scabs on their faces, if so they are probably ice addicts.
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There must be a decent proportion of addicts on the streets. This can be a reflection of hard times, or the rampant availability of such a destructive synthetic drug....basically a toxic cocktail of chemicals.
 
sptrawler said:
Agree with you completely, the problem we have, is we are so used to a system that does allow no acountabilty and responsibility.
We have lost the ability to take responsibility for our own decisions, every one thinks awe well if I ff up there will be the Government to bail me out.
The problem is, the situation is escalating at a rapid rate and like Greece, with a small population the ability to pay everyone a welfare payment becomes problematic.

The first thing we need to do, is re introduce testing of children, and find out where the education system is failing.
The adopted method of not putting the children under pressure, has resulted in a rapid race to mediocrity.IMO

If the testing shows there is a lack of teaching skills, give the teachers the opportunity to access courses to improve their skills, if that doesn't work give them the option of retraining for a different career.

Move teacher training out of uni's and back to teacher training college, where out of work engineers, geologists or any other profession, can be tested for their suitability to be teachers.

That is the key, their suitability isn't dependent on a rubber stamp, YOU HAVE FINISHED THE PRESCRIBED COURSE, YOU ARE A TEACHER.

The dumbest move ever for Australia.IMO

My rant, this week.lol
Click to expand...

I get nervous when people agree with me. Have to go back and read my own rant :D

I don't think welfare programmes are being as exploited as we're made to believe. Nor are they going towards the "undeserving" as we're told either.

We have this thing with our media and politicians where practically every service "they" - the gov't - provides are being made out as some act of kindness on some parasitic (coloured and bogans) people. And it ends up with vulnerable people being neglected or made to feel bad about using what is by their rights to use.

When enough people are put off and being shamed from using essential services... those that really need and deserve help either don't or get help but feel like crap getting it. That's not right.

What's the job of gov't anyway? Take our tax dollars and then what? Give themselves very generous pay and pensions, benefits and protection; then to friends and future employers... then some crumbs for the little plebs?

People aren't stupid. Even poor people.

When they see that if they're honest and pay their taxes but don't get anything in return for it... who would pay taxes? They'd work for cash if they're "unskilled" enough... and those with enough pay and some skill go hire accountants and buy a few investment properties to make losses on them.

----

Teachers... I've seen a few good teachers, I guess we all did.

But mostly teachers are there to indoctrinate state policies and a cheap source of day care.

That's not me saying it... that's what it is if you look into it.

So teachers are encouraged to be boring as heck; teaching some stupid syllabus in the most boring of ways possible to get proper grades... and are given less and less "teaching skills" and resources so they'd be more effective at carrying out those aims. You can't risk having too many inspiring teachers.
 
Tisme said:
Go to San Francisco and any notion of a correlation between welfare state and begging is put into context. Add to that the grifters who dupe tourists, second rate seafood and no sign of Karl Malden; the place is boring and really dangerous in spots.
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I was there 18 years ago and was surprised to see so much poverty in the city centre. Dozens of down and outs pushing their shopping trolley along with all their worldly goods packed inside and some having items hanging off the sides as well. It was a shock to me having been told for many years that America was the land of milk and honey.
 
piggybank said:
It was a shock to me having been told for many years that America was the land of milk and honey.
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It is the land of milk and honey, you just have to have the education, work ethic and smarts to get it. it's full of opportunity, but it's very unforgiving and will leave to behind if you don't fight to keep up.
 
Value Collector said:
It is the land of milk and honey, you just have to have the education, work ethic and smarts to get it. it's full of opportunity, but it's very unforgiving and will leave to behind if you don't fight to keep up.
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I would say that the opportunities in the US derive from it's larger market and therefore bigger consumer base rather than from any inherent strengths of its economic, social or governmental institutions.
 
luutzu said:
I get nervous when people agree with me. Have to go back and read my own rant :D

I don't think welfare programmes are being as exploited as we're made to believe. Nor are they going towards the "undeserving" as we're told either.

We have this thing with our media and politicians where practically every service "they" - the gov't - provides are being made out as some act of kindness on some parasitic (coloured and bogans) people. And it ends up with vulnerable people being neglected or made to feel bad about using what is by their rights to use.

When enough people are put off and being shamed from using essential services... those that really need and deserve help either don't or get help but feel like crap getting it. That's not right.

What's the job of gov't anyway? Take our tax dollars and then what? Give themselves very generous pay and pensions, benefits and protection; then to friends and future employers... then some crumbs for the little plebs?

People aren't stupid. Even poor people.

When they see that if they're honest and pay their taxes but don't get anything in return for it... who would pay taxes? They'd work for cash if they're "unskilled" enough... and those with enough pay and some skill go hire accountants and buy a few investment properties to make losses on them.

----

Teachers... I've seen a few good teachers, I guess we all did.

But mostly teachers are there to indoctrinate state policies and a cheap source of day care.

That's not me saying it... that's what it is if you look into it.

So teachers are encouraged to be boring as heck; teaching some stupid syllabus in the most boring of ways possible to get proper grades... and are given less and less "teaching skills" and resources so they'd be more effective at carrying out those aims. You can't risk having too many inspiring teachers.
Click to expand...

you would be surprised by the amount of people driving mercs while collecting welfare, with their cash in hand jobs
 
ggkfc said:
you would be surprised by the amount of people driving mercs while collecting welfare, with their cash in hand jobs
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Yes, the old "just in case there are cheats and criminals abusing it, let's get rid of it altogether until all humanity are honest and fair dinkum" excuse.

I'd love to see the same thinking being applied to the paying of taxes; or politicians and parliament; or policing; or practically anything we care to name.

So let's get rid of this tax paying stuff because there are way too many Australians earning over a million a year yet could legally pay zero income tax :eek:

wait, it's legal so that's fine.
 
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