BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

To who exactly it is we should be having compassion/sympathy on. It seems most people here have misplaced sympathy for Robin Hood, and those willing to take the spoils from him.

Are you referring to Bolton? Anyway, it really doesn't matter as this is an open forum and you are entitled to your views.

But why are you generalizing by saying "most" people when you really couldn't possibly know what "most" people on ASF think? There's over 24,500 members plus possibly many more times that in lurkers all with many diverse views...

IMO, where and how we show compassion is an individual thing...

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I'm not saying that taxpayers should have to pick up the pieces. I just think that, given the circumstances, a large number of individual investors should not be made bankrupt because they unknowingly took on a ridiculous liability which they never had any chance of being able to pay. If this toll road is actually expected to be profitable, then maybe the Government should consider taking a stake.

Your first and last sentences are in direct opposition.

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I reckon this thread would be perfect fodder for an Ethics lecture.
So many all convinced their particular morality (or lack of) is the right one.

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

A couple of reports of yesterday's court proceedings:

Bolton's plan for BrisConnections

ANZ faces $322m loss if BrisConnections defaults

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

This report has a couple of things in it that the others didn't have:

Toll group's legal battle

 

[Junior]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Your first and last sentences are in direct opposition.

I'm not saying taxpayers should have to foot the bill. I'm saying that if the Project turns out to be profitable then maybe the Government will benefit from taking over.

 

[Junior]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So....apparently Bolton knew exactly what he was doing and actually had a carefully prepared strategy which involved a 'takeover' of the trust. This story has so many twists and turns. When it's all over someone should make a movie about it.

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So....apparently Bolton knew exactly what he was doing and actually had a carefully prepared strategy which involved a 'takeover' of the trust. This story has so many twists and turns. When it's all over someone should make a movie about it.

It would probably make a good movie too. It's interesting enough just watching it slowly unfold...

With new information in the links above, it appears that Bolton is in a different league to the Mums and Dads that seem to have been genuinely caught. It looks like he had an objective all along and I guess as a major share holder he would have some rights. Whether it is morally or legally wrong, I guess only time will tell.

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

There are some bizarre events happening away from the courts at the moment as well.

Firstly, we had the entry of a new player. James Byrns. One time bankruptcy adviser to Alan Bond and currently banned from managing companies. A penalty imposed for five years in 2006. Seemingly a bit of a shadey character.

He has written to all BrisConnections shareholders offering to buy their shares for $0.00001 each, up to a limit of 20% of all shares on issue. That price is 1/100th of their current listed price of $0.001. He's not actually buying them in his own name, but for some nothing company so presumably he is not personally liable: link His approach has been confirmed by posts from unitholders on here. BrisConnections don't like it and have written to all shareholders warning them off : ASX release

But now another mystery buyer has emerged. So far only known by his username 'raygt2004' (or Ray) on a different forum, he is making a very similar offer to that of James Byrne: To buy up to 80 million BCSCA shares at $0.00001, for a total maximum outlay of $800. Link

Does anyone recall the mythical creature known as the hydra? It had a dragon like head with a long neck. If you cut off its head, two more would grow back in its place. If you cut off one of those, another two more would grow to replace it, and so on. That is what BrisConnections are fighting now. They might cut off ASI's head, but already another two have grown to replace it. These annoying little companies can spring up faster than a football team of QC's can hope to strike them down.

BrisConnections needs to change strategy to defeat this hydra. They should try the revolutionary approach of ACTING IN THE INTERESTS OF THEIR SHAREHOLDERS! Stop giving their unit holders reason to give away their investments. Stop threatening them and taking them to court. Do what is best for them, and if that means winding up the trusts and abandoning the project then so be it.

 

[investorpaul]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So each of them:

Bolton
Byrns
Ray

will each have approx 20% give or take a bit, minus any institutions holding how much would that leave in the hands or retail investors?

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Well, so far there is no indication Byrne or Ray have any shares at all. No ASX substantial shareholder announcement. But I'd sell to them if I held BCS, and I expect many actual holders would as well.

If they did all get to their target 20% then there would be 60% held between them. QIC are the institutional (chaired by Trevor Rower, so we know which way they will vote) hold 10%. That would leave roughly 30% in the hands of retail investors.

'Ray' says selling shares to him is better than gifting as people did for Bolton. The transaction is more likely to stand up to a challenge, and the seller will be able to claim a capital loss on their tax.

 

[Absolutely]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

With all this going on you would have to think that the contractor, Thiess John Holland, at some point is going to have to consiider stopping work.

It would appear that Macquarie and Deutche Banks are going to take Bolton's side as they see it as a way out of avoiding paying the shortfall in the collection of the coming installments.

So if successful, where is the money going to come from for work that is underway now? Surely a question the contractor must be asking.

I'm close to the project on the ground with hope of winning some work on the project shortly. Looking for any signs that things might be starting to look shaky.

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So....apparently Bolton knew exactly what he was doing

It looks like he had an objective all along and I guess as a major share holder he would have some rights. Whether it is morally or legally wrong, I guess only time will tell.

I'm curious as to what you think this strategy is, and how it benefits Bolton. Does he really think that after paying off penalty fees to the contactors for defaulting on contracts, penalty fees to the QLD government, and paying off loans to ANZ (which ANZ don't think they'll get back)... That there will be still more than enough in the his share of the trust to cover his legal fees to make this happen?

Or is there another strategy I'm not seeing?

 

[Junior]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I'm curious as to what you think this strategy is, and how it benefits Bolton. Does he really think that after paying off penalty fees to the contactors for defaulting on contracts, penalty fees to the QLD government, and paying off loans to ANZ (which ANZ don't think they'll get back)... That there will be still more than enough in the his share of the trust to cover his legal fees to make this happen?

Or is there another strategy I'm not seeing?

Well he told the court he was planning a takeover after which he was planning to recapitalise the trust. Whether this is the truth or not remains to be seen.

I don't know how this could have benefitted Bolton.... if he managed a take over would he then have had the capacity to pay himself a large salary?

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I'm curious as to what you think this strategy is, and how it benefits Bolton. Does he really think that after paying off penalty fees to the contactors for defaulting on contracts, penalty fees to the QLD government, and paying off loans to ANZ (which ANZ don't think they'll get back)... That there will be still more than enough in the his share of the trust to cover his legal fees to make this happen?

Or is there another strategy I'm not seeing?

Sorry, no idea. I thought he was just another one caught unawares - obviously not so...

But what are your thoughts on the underwriters possibly siding with Bolton to wind the company up?

 

[brty]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hi,

So what is there to stop Bolton from selling to Byrns or Ray??

That would leave Briscon/Rowe with a pointless court case and egg all over their faces.

Bolton could sell 99.9% of his stake, keep .1% to continue the wind up meeting going. Then after court case finishes, buy another stake from the ASX if he really wanted to.

Aint real life more interesting than fiction.

brty

 

[Shine]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Had my first phone call from Brisconnections today.

They wanted to know who I intended to give my proxy to at the EGM. They had a young young guy who read a scipt (very polite and sweet though).

I think they must have had a busy day phoning their unitholders.

 

[Enzyme]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Does anyone recall the mythical creature known as the hydra? It had a dragon like head with a long neck. If you cut off its head, two more would grow back in its place. If you cut off one of those, another two more would grow to replace it, and so on. That is what BrisConnections are fighting now. They might cut off ASI's head, but already another two have grown to replace it. These annoying little companies can spring up faster than a football team of QC's can hope to strike them down.

Man, that is a mixed metaphor if ever I've seen one. A football team vs the hydra. I'll be staying back after class! :homer:

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sorry, no idea. I thought he was just another one caught unawares - obviously not so...

But what are your thoughts on the underwriters possibly siding with Bolton to wind the company up?

As long as it's all legal and those owed money get paid, I'm all for it.

That is, the government gets paid their contract break fees, and the tolling rights revert back to the government, and the government gets to re-tender the project

Building and supply contractors will get paid their outstanding invoices and contract break fees (if they negotiated any)

ANZ and any other creditors got paid their loans + interest back

Finally, anything left over gets redistributed back to the unit holders.

If there's enough money left in the trust, this would almost be a perfect out, except that the govt would have to retender.

If there's not enough money left in the trust, then a lot of people will be out of pocket. In which case, it's not really fair on them, and the trust shouldn't be wound up without the second installment being collected and the proceeds distributed to creditors. In that case we open another whole can of worms which we've discussed before.

This is not a zero sum game. Someone has to wear the pain, and I think the order should be:

1. Unit holders, including those who fraudulently dumped shares if a court decides it's fraud.

2. The under writer

3. The banks and other creditors (such as contractors)

4. The tax payer.

- Which you might notice is the exact inverse on who I thought should get paid out and in what order, above.

What are your thoughts on the issue of winding up the trust, and who should be wearing the pain if it does all go sour?

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Very interesting happenings.

If you remember Garpul Gumnuts previous posts,

by big & buy as many as you can........ maybe not such bad advice after all.
Like I stated before there are always people who have the know how to capitalise on others miss haps or misfortune.

One mans poop is another mans fodder.

Anyone have any feedback on what happened in court today?
is that the last day?

On another note.
BCSCA had plenty of time to sort things out with unit holders before it got to this ludicrous stage.
I know people off this forum wrote to them asking for assistance.
They would here none of it.

Reep what they sow I say