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BBI - Babcock & Brown Infrastructure

I look at the Top 20 list of BEPPA every fortnight starting Jan 1. It is not available free of charge but you can get a copy sent by the BBI share registry (Link Market Services) for a small cost.
 
BB,

FCF = net earnings + depreciation - maintenance capex.

Just ask Warren Buffet if you don't believe it.

I hope you have learnt something.
 
BB,

FCF = net earnings + depreciation - maintenance capex.

I posted this: "FCF = Net Income plus amortisation/depreciation minus capital expenditure."

So what's your point select? It appears as though my formula is identical to yours.
 
BB,

That's where I am confused. More simply, FCF is Operating Cash Flow - Capital Expenditure - Acquisitions.

It's great that you can quote what the FCF equation is but it doesn't appear that you are using it. You have been stating that BBI has a FCF of approx $280 million pa and I was wondering how you arrived at this figure. It looks to me that you have used the 6 month Operating Cash Flow of $140 million and multiplied it by 2. But this isn't correct is it?

Thanks.
 
That's where I am confused. More simply, FCF is Operating Cash Flow - Capital Expenditure - Acquisitions.
That's the most common definition of FCF, but accounting standards do not actually define FCF (it's not on the cash flow statement), so BBI has been using an earnings based definition, which makes its referral of free "cash flows" a bit of a misnomer.

Using the cash flow definition of FCF, normally you want to see very positive operating cash flows, so that after investing cash flows (usually negative because the firm wants to spend on capex), the firm still has cash left to pay creditors and shareholders. In BBI's case, it is relying on asset sales to generate FCF. Obviously that's not how a business is normally run, but banks are calling the shots now.
 
Alphaman,

Yes FCF is rarely reported but I would really like BB to tell us what BBI's free cash flow was in the 6 months to Dec 31.

It's clear that it wasn't $140 million as he has claimed.

Is it closer to $6 million?

BBI is 4c for a reason.
 
Alphaman,

Yes FCF is rarely reported but I would really like BB to tell us what BBI's free cash flow was in the 6 months to Dec 31.

It's clear that it wasn't $140 million as he has claimed.

Is it closer to $6 million?

BBI is 4c for a reason.

Firstly, when did I say the FCF was $140M? Was that statement made prior to or after the half yearly results were announced?

Secondly, BBI is 4c because the market is shyte scared about any stock with lots of debt. 4c is a result of instos bailing out big time. See latest Deutche Bank announcement. Big instos do not care about fundamentals or price. When they decide to exit, they just exit. If you honestly think 4c is a fair value price, then that's your call. I am long the stock because I think 4c is an oversold undervalued price. Therefore, it's horses for courses.
In November, I loaded up at 3c and below. The stock rallied 400% within 6 weeks. Please tell when the "market" was efficient. At 3c in November, or 14c in January? The market is all over the place, hence the opportunity for those who recognize value.
 
Yes BBI has substantial debt.
Yes BBI has to sell assets and yes the banks have put a "top up" on the interest rate for the corporate debt.
None of this is groundbreaking news!

Management of BBI are well aware of this and are conducting their own show with no misaprehension about their true position.
I say this because some keep saying that the shots are being called by the banks..... well i disagree, shots are not being called by the banks. Why exagerate the situation and make it into something it is not. The current management would be doing exactly what they are doing now if the banks wern't being banks.

Why is it 4c?
A large part is because Deutch have their own problems and they are not insignificant problems.
The want out and they want to mop up. They want out now. The decision has been made. The fact that they lose is of little concern to them. They want to rid themselves of as many bad investments as possible at this time to have a clean set of books.
Small investors get rattled and bail out taking it further down the slippery slope. A real shame.

When Deutch have finished it will be interesting to see what the administrators of BNB do with their shareholding in BBI.
Will they hold or will they sell?
Yes, could be more negative vibes.

None of this does the sp any good right now sure, its just part of the process we have to go through.
Most on this forum have no expectation of an early windfall but are looking down the road.

Cheers
 
You have been claiming BBI has FCF of $280 million (you have obviously taken the HY $140 million and multiplied it by 2 to create a FY figure) and this claim has persisted post the half year accounts being released.

It looks like you made a simple but tragic mistake with your research and you understood Operating Cash Flow to be Free Cash Flow.

How much longer will the creditors allow BBI to continue to fund their capex requirements with debt when the FCF is so very poor?
 
You have been claiming BBI has FCF of $280 million (you have obviously taken the HY $140 million and multiplied it by 2 to create a FY figure) and this claim has persisted post the half year accounts being released.

Please direct me to the posts since the first half result where I have claimed BBI has FCF of $280 million.
 
You have been claiming BBI has FCF of $280 million (you have obviously taken the HY $140 million and multiplied it by 2 to create a FY figure) and this claim has persisted post the half year accounts being released.

I have just looked back through every post I have made since the first half result and NOT ONCE have I "been claiming BBI has FCF of $280 million".

You stated that this claim "has persisted post the half year accounts being released". That is a complete fabrication. Please apologize immediately and state your real intentions on this forum.
 

BBI make plenty. They make about 10c per share FCF annually. Obviously there will no dividend for the next year because they are paying down debt.

FWIW, this is the only mention (4 Mar) I can find regarding FCF by BB since the interim result. Based on 10c per share, and total share of ~2376m, that's ~$237.6m.

Not really taking any sides here - you guys go ahead and duel it out. I enjoy the debate here and one can learn a lot about how to analyse a company's fundamental.

BB, out of interest, do you build your own model on BBI's financials? If so, what do you use for discount rate?
 
The stock rallied 400% within 6 weeks. Please tell when the "market" was efficient.
3c to 14c is exciting percentage change for traders, but fundamentally given the size of BBI's debt relative to market cap, the change in BBI's toal enterprise value is actually almost negligible. So I would not really use that to disprove market efficiency.

Even a more substantial change would not necessarily disprove market efficiencty, which is based on "currently available information". If Kevin Rudd announces tomorrow that he will give BBI $3 billion for free, and BBI jumps, does that mean people were wrong to be cautious about BBI today? No, it just means the shareholders are lucky, but no one would have reasonably priced in Rudd's gift.

By the way I'm not saying market is always right, just saying price changes alone do not disprove market efficiency.
 
The below actually states FCF of $300m or 2376m shares at 12.5c $297m.

Either way BBI may come out on trumps. Their chances are a lot greater than BNB that is for certain.



 
The BBI half yearly was released late Feb. On what date did I make that post you refer to?
"select" has told an outright porky pie and hasn't got the guts to even apologize.
 


This could drag on forever. I am simply wanting to know how you arrive at all the different FCF's that you post.

One post made prior to the half year result says $300 million, another post made after the half year result says 10c per share ($240 million), another says $200 million.

What was BBI's FCF in the first half to Decembr? Was it approx $6 million?

Why is BBI debt funding their capex requirements if their FCF is as good as you suggest it is?

Thanks
 
Please direct me to the posts since the first half result where I have claimed BBI has FCF of $280 million.
 
Banska,
Do you mind listing here the top 4 shareholders and % owned of BBI and BEPPA as per your latest "link market services" report?
 
Banska,
Do you mind listing here the top 4 shareholders and % owned of BBI and BEPPA as per your latest "link market services" report?

random,
I would normally have no problem doing that BUT...... think about it. I pay for the listing from Link and if I posted it on here for free, people like "select" get to see that info for nix. Some here have attacked me with porky pies and I honestly do not feel inclined to "share" something I have paid for with those people.
 
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