Barack Obama!

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Barack has many sites registered where you can be entertained all day and night and end up with educated authentic opinions of him:

Dare to be inspired to check them all out!

Lol - wilco.

btw, I didn't mean to infer that Obama wasn't also doing well with the youth - in fact I posted that he is whipping Hillary in that respect (60% to 20%).

Maybe he could do with Colin Powell as his running mate - just to add some experience

Might try to learn more about that Facebook website and "pulse" polling results - maybe extract a similar "pulse graph" for Democrats (??) if available. My kids are in Facebook - share photos of various parties with their mates - but won't tell me their passwords lol. Looks like I have to register there - no biggie.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Electoral College Voting:

Map of number of college votes each state has:

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usstates/electorl.htm


USA Electoral College System

In each state, whichever party garners a majority of popular votes, regardless of how narrow the margin, wins all the electoral votes. By forcing residents in each state ultimately to vote as a block, the system is supposed to ensure that small states' interests are not drowned out by those of larger states.

In all, there are 538 electoral votes and the number given to each state reflects the sum of the representatives and senators it sends to Congress. It takes 270 or more electoral college votes to win the election.The biggest states - California (54), New York (33), Texas (32), Pennsylvania (23) - have the most impact on the result of the presidential election.

Usually, the result is nearly the same as it would have been if the election were direct. Yet the system has produced presidents who received a minority of the popular vote but a majority of the electoral votes, including Harry S Truman, Woodrow Wilson, Abraham Lincoln and John Quincy Adams.

President Bill Clinton was also elected in 1992 with only 43 percent of the popular vote, but 370 electoral votes. Several times in recent electoral college history, a relatively small shift in voter preference in key states would have reversed election outcomes.

 

[Aussie2Aussie]

Re: Barack 2008!

Am I right in thinking he supports the Iraq war?

Yes he does, as an ex-vietnam POW and a republican, it comes with the turf.

In the end I dont think it really matters who the republican nominee is as the dems will win the presidency, the house and maintain control of the senate.

FYI, for all of those excited by the result in Iowa, Obama only has a one delegate lead out of his win. The take out of Iowa is Obama 18 delegates, Edwards 17 and Clinton 16.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

In the end I dont think it really matters who the republican nominee is as the dems will win the presidency, the house and maintain control of the senate.

FYI, for all of those excited by the result in Iowa, Obama only has a one delegate lead out of his win. The take out of Iowa is Obama 18 delegates, Edwards 17 and Clinton 16.

Our Westminster system is simple hey A2A!


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hY742M_s1ttD_ycf2Zusn1o1fD3QD8TV78A80

Clinton Leads Delegate Race

By The Associated Press – 20 hours ago

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton claimed one fewer delegate than Sen. Barack Obama in the Iowa caucuses Thursday night, but she still has the lead in the overall race for delegates because she has a commanding lead among superdelegates.

The Democratic National Committee has allotted states a total of 796 superdelegates to the party's national convention this summer. Those delegates, mainly members of Congress, other elected officials and DNC members, are free to support any candidate at the convention, regardless of the outcomes of the primaries and caucuses.

Most superdelegates contacted by the AP before the Iowa caucuses were undecided. However, among those who have endorsed a candidate, Clinton leads with 160, compared to 59 for Obama and 32 for former Sen. John Edwards.

Those numbers could change dramatically if Obama continues to win at the ballot box, which could lead to more endorsements by superdelegates.

An AP analysis of the Iowa caucus results showed Obama winning 16 delegates, followed by Clinton with 15 and Edwards with 14. In the overall race for delegates, Clinton leads with 175, followed by Obama with 75 and Edwards with 46.

A total of 2,025 delegates is needed to secure the Democratic nomination.


Understand caucuses and primaries:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/studentnews/01/03/one.sheet.caucus.primary/

 

[Aussie2Aussie]

Re: Barack 2008!

Our Westminster system is simple hey A2A!

For sure our system is easier, but Americans will argue that at least all of them have a say in who will be their leader as opposed to Australia, where the leader is decided in a smoke filled back room and by 60,000 people in one electorate.

The picture from this campaign will change significantly over the next month. Personally I am not an Obama fan, simply because he is a populist, a feel good candidate - I think America needs more than just that at the moment.

There will be a decisive winner for the democrats; as for the republicans, my bet is that it will be so tight and with no clear winner that it will need to be hammered out on the floor of the convention.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Gee I love the internet

What is Truth? Johnny Cash

"Hurt" by Johnny Cash

A2A With attitudes like this, (refer attached jpegs) you'd have to be right (predicting Democrat victory). I wonder is Ron Paul a democrat in a republican's suit. (at least as far as human rights goes)

PS How does that quote of GWB's (re Iraq) go again ? "I don't give a flying f*** what the polls say - I'm the president - and (I'll do it my way / I know best - whatever) etc etc "

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

Rather that leave with those rude gestures (GWB started it lol)
maybe I should add a bit of decorum

Doris - maybe ask your US friend can she identify with this song ? ...
"loves her country, sings its praises, but still not necessarily happy with what it has become, and longs for "something" better"

Anthem, from Chess, Tommy Körberg -Benny Andersson supervising

Tommy Körberg in the studio recording this beautiful version.
Chess is a musical with lyrics by Tim Rice and music by Björn Ulvaeus and Benny Andersson, formerly of ABBA.

PS hell, I love this song - (and I sure as hell identify with it )

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

... but Americans will argue that at least all of them have a say in who will be their leader as opposed to Australia, where the leader is decided in a smoke filled back room and by 60,000 people in one electorate.

A2A
I seem to recall that both the recent elections in USA could / should have been challenged further in the courts and/or by new elections in Florida etc

I'm surprised you say that it's the Aussie system (rather than the US) that is clouded in smoke (and/or mirrors) ?

As soon as Bush heard that the 2000 election came down to Florida - and his brother was Governor there - he claimed (informally) victory (Fahrenheit 9/11) - yet it was totally line ball? I just don't trust that US system (not that I fully uinderstand it) - just totally over-complicates things to my unexpert eye.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

For sure our system is easier, but Americans will argue that at least all of them have a say in who will be their leader as opposed to Australia, where the leader is decided in a smoke filled back room and by 60,000 people in one electorate.

The picture from this campaign will change significantly over the next month. Personally I am not an Obama fan, simply because he is a populist, a feel good candidate - I think America needs more than just that at the moment.

But... would Americans argue that they should have a system whereby, should the winner prove to be incompetent, the back room could vote him out? Rather than have to lie in their bed...

Costello didn't try it but he could have!

C'mon A2A! It feels good to feel good!

America has had too long feeling the pain of GWB's Schadenfreude!

And the election is shrouded in Schadenfreude!

...a German word meaning 'pleasure taken from someone else's misfortune'.
It derives from Schaden (damage, harm) and Freude (joy).

The Buddhist concept of mudita, "sympathetic joy" or "happiness in another's good fortune," is an example of the opposite of schadenfreude.

Hillary's camp will give Obama plenty of airtime to advertise his policies over the next few days, as she challenges him to elucidate them, as she attempts to achieve Schadenfreude!

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Democratic Debate: Edwards Backs Up Obama

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) cast off the magnanimous, above-the-fray approach she had used up until now in the campaign, aggressively challenging Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) and former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) over which of the three can truly bring about change.

The problem for Clinton is that Edwards has decided that his best chance to be one of the last two candidates standing is to knock her out in New Hampshire. Edwards' campaign believes that if he can do that -- perhaps with a close third place finish -- Clinton will be a non-factor and allow him to debate Obama over which man is the true change agent.

Edwards repeatedly cited his agreement with Obama and savaged Clinton as a defender of the status quo, making it very difficult -- as we noted earlier -- for Clinton to score a direct hit on Obama. Edwards' argument throughout the debate was that while he and Obama differ over the proper method to bring about change, he and Obama are far more capable to bring about that change than Clinton.

Obama seemed to come into this debate determined to show that he is presidential and he did that nicely. He avoided engaging Clinton on a personal level and insisted that their policy disagreements were legitimate and fair game. That is the strategy of a confident candidate.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/?hpid=topnews
Posted at 10:45 PM ET, 01/ 5/2008

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

NH Debate:

Health Care:

Challenged on health care, Obama acknowledged that he has said if he were designing a system from scratch, he would set up a single-payer system that would give coverage to all. He said that is impractical, given the current system in which so many people receive their insurance from employers.

Obama's health care plan relies on government financial incentives and cost-cutting to help the uninsured afford coverage. But unlike Clinton and Edwards, he does not require adults to buy coverage or pay a penalty if they fail.

"I disagree with that because as I go around, I don't meet people who avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it," he said.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g0_Gqy82V2iM8iwU-FPjci9kFX9QD8U04PU80
Released 1 hour ago.

 

[Aussie2Aussie]

Re: Barack 2008!

A2A
I seem to recall that both the recent elections in USA could / should have been challenged further in the courts and/or by new elections in Florida etc

I'm surprised you say that it's the Aussie system (rather than the US) that is clouded in smoke (and/or mirrors) ?

As soon as Bush heard that the 2000 election came down to Florida - and his brother was Governor there - he claimed (informally) victory (Fahrenheit 9/11) - yet it was totally line ball? I just don't trust that US system (not that I fully uinderstand it) - just totally over-complicates things to my unexpert eye.

The most recent election was not likely to be challenge as the result in Ohio was clear cut.

Florida was decided by the Supreme Court as it should have been and this would also be the case should an Australian election be contested. Bush did win and arguments about hanging chads, was irrelevant.

CNN actually called the election for Bush based on what they thought the result in Florida was.

In Australia, our only contribution to electing a Prime Minister is by electing an entire mob. We have no say in who is going to be the leader of any party; at least in the US everyone has that opportunity.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

A2A,
I thought they were more controversial than that -
either way you can't deny that they were controversial to a significant degree.

Ahhh - good point about picking the leader.

so, lol
We need another thread maybe on the best proposal for the next republican debate / referendum for aussies to select their first President

 

[ormond]

Re: Barack 2008!

Latest Centrebet odds-President winner.
Clinton,Hillary-2.50
Obama,Barack-2.50
Giuliani,Rudolph-8.00
Mccain,John-8.50
Romney,Mitt-12.00
Huckabee,Mike-14.00
Bloomberg,Michael-17.00
Paul,Ron-26.00
Edwards,John-34.00
Gore,Al-41.00
Thompson,Fred-44.00
Rice,Condoleezza-151.00

 

[Aussie2Aussie]

Re: Barack 2008!

Latest Centrebet odds-President winner.
Clinton,Hillary-2.50
Obama,Barack-2.50
Giuliani,Rudolph-8.00
Mccain,John-8.50
Romney,Mitt-12.00
Huckabee,Mike-14.00
Bloomberg,Michael-17.00
Paul,Ron-26.00
Edwards,John-34.00
Gore,Al-41.00
Thompson,Fred-44.00
Rice,Condoleezza-151.00

Would not mind having a bit of that McCain.....anyone but Giuliani and Thompson.

Gore and Rice are in there just to make it interesting, not even candidates.

Doris, I suspect we will have a referendum on the republic sometime over the next 3 years. If Rudd is really smart he should tie it in to the next election eg. vote Labor and we will give you a vote on a republic or if he can (not sure it is constitutionally possible) have it at the same time as the election and tag his campaign with the whole vote yes proposition.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

The most recent election was not likely to be challenge as the result in Ohio was clear cut.

Florida was decided by the Supreme Court as it should have been and this would also be the case should an Australian election be contested. Bush did win and arguments about hanging chads, was irrelevant.

CNN actually called the election for Bush based on what they thought the result in Florida was.

One SC used lack of counting time to veto the recount!

btw...
Q: How do you save a lawyer from drowning?
A: Take your foot off his head!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000

United States presidential election, 2000 Florida results

At approximately 7:50 pm EST on election day, 10 minutes before the polls closed in the largely Republican Florida panhandle, some television news networks declared that Gore had carried Florida's 25 electoral votes. They based this prediction on exit polls. However, in the actual vote tally Bush took a wide early lead in Florida, and by 10 pm the networks had retracted their prediction of a Gore victory and placed Florida back into the "undecided" column. At approximately 2:30 am, with some 85% of the votes counted in Florida and Bush leading Gore by more than 100,000 votes, the networks declared that Bush had carried Florida, and had been elected President. However, most of the remaining votes to be counted in Florida were located in three heavily Democratic counties - Broward, Miami-Dade, and Palm Beach - and as their votes were reported Gore began to gain on Bush. By 4:30 am Gore had narrowed Bush's margin to less than 2,000 votes, and the networks retracted their predictions that Bush had won Florida and the Presidency. Gore, who had privately conceded the election to Bush, now withdrew his concession and announced that he would wait for a recount in Florida before any further action. By the morning of Wednesday, November 8 Bush's margin in Florida had dwindled to about 500 votes, narrow enough to trigger a mandatory recount in that state. In addition, Gore asked for hand recounts in four counties (Broward, Miami Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia), as provided under Florida state law. This set into motion a series of recounts (portions by machine, and portions by hand), questions about portions of the Florida vote, and finally lawsuits.

These ultimately resulted in a December 12 7-2 United States Supreme Court decision that the Florida Supreme Court's scheme for recounting ballots was unconstitutional, as well as a 5-4 United States Supreme Court decision that ended the Florida recounts and allowed Florida to certify its vote. The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Republican Secretary of State who had been the Florida co-chair of Bush's own campaign. Because Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida, there were allegations that Harris and Bush had somehow manipulated the election to favor the governor's brother. Bush's margin of victory in Florida was officially placed at 537 votes (out of more than 5.8 million cast), making it the closest presidential election in the history of the state. The nine members of the Supreme Court voted along ideological lines in the split decision with the two usually conservative swing voters (Justices O'Connor and Kennedy) siding with the three conservatives (Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justices Scalia, and Thomas) outvoting the Court's four liberals (Justices Ginsburg, Souter, Stevens, and Breyer). Due to all of these factors, the 2000 presidential campaign has become one of the most controversial, and disputed, elections in American history.

Post recount

After Florida was decided, Texas Governor George W. Bush became President-elect and began forming his transition committee. In a speech on December 13, Bush said he was reaching across party lines to bridge a divided America, stating that "the President of the United States is the President of every single American, of every race, and every background."

On January 6, 2001, a joint-session of Congress met to certify the electoral vote. Twenty members of the House of Representatives, most of them Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus, rose one-by-one to file objections to the electoral votes of Florida. However, according to an 1877 law, any such objection had to be sponsored by both a representative and a senator, and no senator would co-sponsor these objections. Therefore, Gore, who was presiding in his capacity as President of the Senate, ruled each of these objections out of order.

Bush took the oath of office on January 20, 2001.

In the aftermath of the election, independent recounts were conducted by The Miami Herald and USA Today, concluding that Bush would have won in all legally requested recount scenarios, and in all other scenarios except for "a fresh recount in all counties using the most generous standards,” which would have gone to Gore.

Additionally, The Media Consortium hired the National Opinion Research Center to examine 175,010 ballots that were never counted in Florida. The investigation took 8 months and cost $900,000. Their results showed that the winning candidate varied based on the method used to include or interpret ballots. For cases where all of their examiners agreed, the nine different recount scenarios resulted in Bush prevailing four times, and Gore prevailing in the other five. Ironically enough, under the recount rules initially requested by Gore, Bush would have won, and under the rules requested by Bush, Gore would have won.

National results

Though Gore came in second in the electoral vote, he received 543,816 more individual votes than Bush. Gore failed to win the popular vote in his home state, Tennessee, which both he and his father had represented in the Senate. Had he won Tennessee, he could have won the election without Florida. Gore was the first major-party presidential candidate to have lost his home state since George McGovern lost South Dakota in 1972.

Electronic voting

Since the Presidential Election was so close in Florida, the United States Government and state governments pushed for election reform to be prepared by the 2004 United States Presidential Election. Many of Florida's year 2000 election night problems stemmed from voting machine issues like rejected ballots, "hanging chad", and the possibly confusing "butterfly ballot". A proposed solution to these problems was the installation of modern electronic voting machines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_ballot


The United States Supreme Court voted 7–2 to end the recount on the grounds that differing standards in different counties constituted an equal protection violation, and 5–4 that no new recount with uniform standards could be conducted within the time available. The 7–2 ruling was more important as the votes had already been counted several times with uniform standards. However, the 5–4 decision became extremely controversial due to the partisan split in the court's 5–4 decision and the majority's irregular instruction that its judgment in Bush v. Gore should not set precedent but should be "limited to the present circumstances". Gore publicly disagreed with the court's decision, but conceded the election.

 

[Julia]

Re: Barack 2008!

The picture from this campaign will change significantly over the next month. Personally I am not an Obama fan, simply because he is a populist, a feel good candidate - I think America needs more than just that at the moment.

Agreed. There is rather more to being President than emotional rhetoric and charisma. I can't help getting the sense that many people, including some ASF members, are getting caught up in the almost hysteria of Obama, and thus losing their perspective and objectivity.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Doris, should he win in Iowa all it offers is focus of the press, it offers the winner credibility. Many have won Iowa and not even come close to winning the nomination. The exception will be Hillary - she will win Iowa....just.

Should Hillary win the nomination he will not be the Vice Presidential candidate - guaranteed.

After the debate in NH this morning it seems like John Edwards will be Barack's running mate!

Hillary is o u t... her claws have torn her chances.

People want a leader who is nurturing.


John McCain will be their adversary in November. But who will be his running mate?

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Agreed. There is rather more to being President than emotional rhetoric and charisma. I can't help getting the sense that many people, including some ASF members, are getting caught up in the almost hysteria of Obama, and thus losing their perspective and objectivity.

Now don't you worry about that!
It gets mighty uncomfortable for people who sit on the fence.

Sir Joh Bjelkie-Petersen

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

After the debate in NH this morning it seems like John Edwards will be Barack's running mate!

Hillary is o u t... her claws have torn her chances.
People want a leader who is nurturing.

John McCain will be their adversary in November. But who will be his running mate?

They pick their running mate early yes?
Based (partly) on funding potential maybe?

(PS Vote for Obama , hic - he'll build a dish tillery
life's a bitch, hic - and so ish Hillary )

Now don't you worry about that!
It gets mighty uncomfortable for people who sit on the fence.

Sir Joh Bjelkie-Petersen

some classics (you never knew when he was spoonerising or being punny)

eg You can lead a horse to drink but you can't make him water?