Australia's Homeless

[Gringotts Bank]

Julia, let's say you get an unlikely answer to a question that has no easy answer...then what? Are you going to run for PM? No. Nothing is going to happen from this thread and you know it. You won't even take someone into your own home or investment property. All compassion, no action.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Troll much lately??

 

[Some Dude]

Considering you're the resident Frasier Crane on ASF...

He may only sound like Frasier, he may be...... Side Show Bob!!

 

[Calliope]

Well, if everyone took your view, of course these problems will never be resolved. You are an expert in sitting back and delivering derision, scorn and criticism on pretty much everything and everyone, with the recent exception of some young children who apparently recently charmed you with their doting mothers.

Sorry you feel the need to go out of your way to denigrate me Julia, but that's OK. I can take it. I know that despite your apparent bitterness you have a heart of gold.

Some of us have contributed thousands of voluntary hours in time given to community agencies supporting homeless and mentally ill people.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I've no problem with anyone helping anyone else, but helping itself is a fine art. It's very easy for it to become an outward expression of self-pity. Or it may be a way of trying to prove one's self worth, or even pave oneself a stairway to heaven. Still, such "help" is better than none, so good on anyone who does volunteer work. There ain't no easy answer though. Life is a bitch for some people and I suspect that's just the way it will always be.


Sideshow Bob

 

[boofis]

On a slightly related but side note, when I was 'religious' I used to 'help' the 'needy' and really enjoyed it for the most part, but it was always interesting to see that in alot of cases as soon as people thought you were helping them cause they 'needed' help they'd get all proud and never wanted help anymore.
I guess noone likes to admit they're incapable, no matter how incapable they may be

 

[Calliope]

I've no problem with anyone helping anyone else, but helping itself is a fine art. It's very easy for it to become an outward expression of self-pity. Or it may be a way of trying to prove one's self worth, or even pave oneself a stairway to heaven. Still, such "help" is better than none, so good on anyone who does volunteer work. There ain't no easy answer though. Life is a bitch for some people and I suspect that's just the way it will always be

Homelessness on the streets of our major cities is a popular topic among the chattering classes and the cafe set. The most practical way, however, to help the homeless, is to dig deep and donate to those who really care. We don't have to wait for the Salvation Army's annual appeal. Do it now.

This won't get them off the streets, but it may give them a meal and the occasional warm bed.

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/Who-We-Are/our-work/Homelessness/

 

[prawn_86]

This won't get them off the streets, but it may give them a meal and the occasional warm bed.

http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/Who-We-Are/our-work/Homelessness/

Yep we recently gave about 20 - 30kg worth of clothes and blankets to St Vinnies and Salvos. Anything we hadn't worn for over a year, plus bedding we don't use etc. Surely someone will put it to better use than us

 

[Julia]

Sorry you feel the need to go out of your way to denigrate me Julia, but that's OK. I can take it. I know that despite your apparent bitterness you have a heart of gold.

I think, to be honest, I probably am somewhat over-reacting at present. I'm no Pollyanna, but I'm just feeling almost overwhelmed by the level of nastiness and egocentric self interest by so many, especially our politicians.

And yes, Calliope, I'm sure for every abusive mother, addressing her children as 'you little f****ers', there are several who are doing a great job with their kids.

If my previous comment to you was unreasonable, then I'm sorry. I do note, however, that others have also been surprised at your kindly view of any section of humanity, so used have we become to your usual acerbic commentary.

I've no problem with anyone helping anyone else, but helping itself is a fine art. It's very easy for it to become an outward expression of self-pity. Or it may be a way of trying to prove one's self worth, or even pave oneself a stairway to heaven.

Oh god, you just can't help yourself, can you! More of your pop psychology diagnoses.

Still, such "help" is better than none, so good on anyone who does volunteer work. There ain't no easy answer though. Life is a bitch for some people and I suspect that's just the way it will always be.

That's probably true but it doesn't mean we should give up trying. Just on the subject of aboriginal disadvantage, there have been great strides made up in Cape York under Noel Pearson's guidance.
Other pockets of real improvement also.

And, contrary to your conclusion that efforts to assist people in disadvantaged situations are ineffectual, there's plenty of evidence, even just in small local ways, that it's possible to make a difference. A mentoring program that I've been part of for nearly ten years works with kids who are at risk of running off the rails, usually due to their home environment. Just one small example: a young aboriginal girl, aged 8, family consisted of mother who prostituted herself to maintain her heroin habit, older sister who was emulating the mother, older brother already having done some jail time, is now doing really well at school after a few years of one on one support, just doing ordinary things like coming to dog training, looking for shells on the beach, and receiving help with her schoolwork.

Several teenage boys who were expelled because of their consistently disruptive behaviour now in decent jobs after participating for a couple of years in a program where older males worked with them.

Fund raising to set up refuges for women escaping domestic violence and persuading lawyers to assist them pro bono.

I could go on. And no, it is definitely not selfless endeavour, in that every single time I make my meagre contribution to these and other efforts, I feel huge thankfulness for my own comfort and the fact that I had the capacity to turn abuse and other difficulties into something positive.

On a slightly related but side note, when I was 'religious' I used to 'help' the 'needy' and really enjoyed it for the most part, but it was always interesting to see that in alot of cases as soon as people thought you were helping them cause they 'needed' help they'd get all proud and never wanted help anymore.
I guess noone likes to admit they're incapable, no matter how incapable they may be

You're right in that we all need to have our personal sense of dignity respected, even when we're in the most humiliating of situations.

There was an interesting discussion on Radio National recently about 'inappropriate giving', i.e. people discharging what they perceived as their responsibility to help with whatever suited them best. eg in the tsunami a few years ago, care agencies received container loads of thick winter clothing, thousands of teddy bears etc which are simply a burden for the care agencies to dispose of.

 

[basilio]

Excellent thread and worth trying tease out. Certainly no easy answers and probably many good solutions that could address different aspects of the problem in different age groups and circumstances.

Its funny Julia but I think you managed to contradict yourself a bit in your last response. Gringott was suggesting that helping others may be a way of proving ones self worth and building a "stairway to heaven " (so to speak.) You wern't impressed with that comment but then I felt that your comments regarding your own extensive involvement in mentoring/supporting people in difficult situations did make you feel better and more thankful.

The fact is that supporting other people and doing worthwhile things does make us feel better. The joy of giving, the feeling of doing something worthwhile are all absolutely real.

Solving the problem.

No easy answers but perhaps a number worth considering
1) Some serious community work programs that provide good value activities for people and help top up or replace current welfare payments. Once upon a time there were many more lower skilled relatively simple jobs that were accessible by people with limited capacities. In my view most of these have gone and the expectations by employers of people have gone beyond the capacity of many people.
But I believe almost everyone needs to contribute to our society both for their own benefit and the community at large. So if the private sector can't do this maybe government or community groups can fill the gap.

2) Have a long hard look at how the supply of housing is met in the community. Again, IMHO, the role of developers and bankers in extracting the maximum possible profit from this industry is one of the drivers of housing inflation. How ?
- Bankers and developers have been at the forefront of encouraging property speculators and investors into the property market . The net result, I believe, has been the fuelling of housing inflation supported by be negative gearing and excessive speculation by ordinary investors who believe that investing in property can create their retirement savings. Obviously if enough people chase up the price of property then we will have property inflation - but the price is now well ot of reach of normal income people. In my view that is not sustainable. (See USA, UK, Canada, Spain < etc)

3) Consider a return to the lending practices of yester decade. When I was young....buying a home was pretty straightforward. You had to save a deposit of 10-20% for a least a year. When you wanted to buy a property the bank would offer you a loan that was equivalent to a repayment of 33% of your gross pay or 25% of your net. You went into the housing market with a fixed amout to play with - just like the tens of thousands of other people in your wage bracket.

If you earn't a bigger pay packet you could shop around for a more expensive home - but essentially you wern't able to buy mansions on McDonalds wages.

This all changed in the 80's when Banks and other financial instutations started offering 100 and 105% loans in the name of free markets. In my view the extra easy credit was a big stimulus to the housing inflation of the 80's and then later 90's and 2000's

4) Examine some of the new and old housing build options available.
Co housing is interesting idea that can offer quality, cheaper housing options for people. If one inserts elements of community activity in the building of these projects (sweat equity) you can reduce the cost to participants even further as well as generating worthwhile work.

In my view for example there are probably many older homes on larger blocks on the outskirts of Melbourne that are near the end of their life. One could combine 2-3 sites for either
- A developer led 25 unit set of apartments at full commercial costs...
- A developer led 12 unit set of townhouses OR
- A community Co- housing development of 12- 15 units at perhaps 50-60% of the previous costs.

5) Examination and development of more effective house sharing opportunities. There are many older people living in larger houses as single people. Helping to set up systems that would enable safe sharing of these homes would save everyone money and hopefully improve social isolation.

http://www.communities.org.au/projects/ecohousing-heidelberg
http://www.housingregistrar.vic.gov...s/Eastern-Suburbs-Rental-Housing-Co-operative
http://www.thesenior.com.au/News/The-Senior-News/Sharing-way-to-live

 

[Trembling Hand]

basilio you think homelessness is a affordability issue?

 

[boofhead]

It does have an impact for some. Did you watch the Four Corners story? The lower the value of the property with reduced demand has a less inflationary effect on rental prices. For some it was about the cost. Others it is about mental/physical issues. Others it is about being able to look after themselves.

 

[basilio]

basilio you think homelessness is a affordability issue?

Boofhead offered a range of answers. There isn't a single issue at play. Can't be. Family breakdown, loss of employment, illness, social problems, bad luck, incapacity to look after oneself, older age and lack of resources. Ton of reasons for being unable to have decent accommodation.

My suggestions were only touching a part of the problems.

 

[MrBurns]

Julia, let's say you get an unlikely answer to a question that has no easy answer...then what? Are you going to run for PM? No. Nothing is going to happen from this thread and you know it. You won't even take someone into your own home or investment property. All compassion, no action.

Have you ?

 

[Calliope]

I do note, however, that others have also been surprised at your kindly view of any section of humanity, so used have we become to your usual acerbic commentary.

More sarcasm. Who is we? Do you discuss me with other posters?

 

[Julia]

Its funny Julia but I think you managed to contradict yourself a bit in your last response. Gringott was suggesting that helping others may be a way of proving ones self worth and building a "stairway to heaven " (so to speak.) You wern't impressed with that comment but then I felt that your comments regarding your own extensive involvement in mentoring/supporting people in difficult situations did make you feel better and more thankful.

You are misinterpreting what was said. GB said

.... helping itself is a fine art. It's very easy for it to become an outward expression of self-pity. Or it may be a way of trying to prove one's self worth, or even pave oneself a stairway to heaven.

It's just rubbish to suggest that offering assistance to others is a manifestation of 'self pity'. Neither is it necessarily a way of 'trying to prove one's self worth'. To so suggest is, frankly, insulting and rude.
Yes, as I have said, being exposed to the reality of some people's great social disadvantage reminds me of how comparatively fortunate I am. That doesn't mean I indulge in self pity or the need to establish my self worth.
And in terms of a 'stairway to heaven', that might mean something to you, given you are asking people to offer up prayers on another thread, but as someone with no religious interest whatsoever, it means nothing to me.

All up, three really silly suggestions.

 

[Julia]

More sarcasm. Who is we? Do you discuss me with other posters?

Oh dear, it wasn't sarcastic at all. I just reflected that I was not the only one to express surprise at your affectionate comments about children.

viz from Macquack

Well bugger me Calliope, I always thought of you as a cranky old bastard who would say that "children should be seen and not heard".

and from Knobby

I thought the same thing as Mac, pleasantly surprised with you Calliope.

So, sorry though I am to disabuse you of the egocentric notion that you're the subject of discussion amongst other posters, as you also suggested yesterday re myself, DocK and Sydboy, it simply is not the case.

 

[Calliope]

So, sorry though I am to disabuse you of the egocentric notion that you're the subject of discussion amongst other posters, as you also suggested yesterday re myself, DocK and Sydboy, it simply is not the case.

Amongst other posters? I didn't say that. Egocentric? Another word to add to your list of pejorative terms for me.

 

[johenmo]

To determine a solution one first has to know the size & type of problem(s). As TH stated, it's a symptom. The site stats claim that each homeless person costs $27000 pa when on the streets & $43000 when being assisted (housing, benefits, health care etc). Recipients of assistance want to retain some dignity (though some here would argue that if they living on the streets how can they expect to have dignity) & independence in their life.

The process to reduce this significantly & permanently requires a multipronged approach, working on immediate needs, underlying or root cause and preventive action. The waste of funds by various organisations which overlap & duplicate services could be better spent. The website stated that "...more than 1500 specialist homelessness services were to provide accommodation & support...".

A lot of "Homeless" don't want to live in what they perceive as institutionalised housing (I learned this from talking to them when helping on a street van). Nor to be seen as charity cases. It needs to be planned more like a military operation but carried out in a compassionate & understanding way.

If 1/200 are homeless then that's > 100,00 people - and to make a dent in this requires money & time. How many of us are willing to give up one or the other or both on an ongoing basis?


From Homelessness Australia website:

 

[MrBurns]

Not just talking about the homeless here, I'm really concerned about the single mothers with $40 to live on for 2 weeks, these people aren't rorting the system, the system has let them down badly, no you cant help everyone but the cases I saw on 4 Corners were the ones to start with , I'd gladly give time and money.....I give money at present, but I don't see how it helps the ones I'm talking about.

Donations just seem to disappear into the void somewhere.

- - - Updated - - -

ORGANISATIONS FEATURED IN THE PROGRAM

Christ Mission Possible (NSW) is a Western Sydney based charity providing emergency relief and housing. cmp.org.au/

Northern Futures (VIC) works in collaboration with The Brotherhood of St Laurence, to create employment and training opportunities for the local community. northernfuturesgeelong.net and The Brotherhood of St Laurence

Salvation Army (VIC) - Emergency accommodation in the Geelong area. salvos.org.au/bellarinepeninsula/.../salvo-connect-network/

The Spiers Centre (WA) have three main services: The Poverty Program, the Individual and Family Support Program and the Community and Social Support Program. www.thespierscentre.com.au/

The background and more info -

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/07/01/3791178.htm