Australia's Homeless

[sptrawler]

Question, if Australians on welfare can't afford to rent a home, how can the government place refugees in rental homes? If they're on welfare.

 

[Julia]

Question, if Australians on welfare can't afford to rent a home, how can the government place refugees in rental homes? If they're on welfare.

1. Asylum seekers receive considerable help from community agencies, such as the Salvos.

The government has effectively outsourced accommodation of asylum seekers to these community agencies. As a result, the expense comes off the government's books and drains the resources of the charities who then lack the capacity to help Australians in need.

2. I understand they combine their resources and pack several people into eg one small flat.

3. Refugee advocates fall over themselves to provide furniture, food and other assistance.

4. They get legal and, I think, dental and medical, services which many Australians on Newstart struggle to access.

There's probably more. That's just off the top of my head now.

 

[sptrawler]

1. Asylum seekers receive considerable help from community agencies, such as the Salvos.

The government has effectively outsourced accommodation of asylum seekers to these community agencies. As a result, the expense comes off the government's books and drains the resources of the charities who then lack the capacity to help Australians in need.

2. I understand they combine their resources and pack several people into eg one small flat.

3. Refugee advocates fall over themselves to provide furniture, food and other assistance.

4. They get legal and, I think, dental and medical, services which many Australians on Newstart struggle to access.

There's probably more. That's just off the top of my head now.

Well then it is obvious, keep attracting asylum seekers, then the government can pay to put them in rental properties.

Which in turn will keep the housing boom moving along. Great economic policy.

 

[basilio]

Saw an Australian Story program which has to be seen to be believed.

Put aside 30 minutes to watch it and perhaps consider your thoughts/response to the story of an abused child who becomes a violent alcoholic and then lives in a rain forest.
https://www.abc.net.au/austory/out-of-the-woods/11790238

 

[sptrawler]

You missed the point SP it wont get fixed such is the wilful negligence of the "losers" being accepted by US politics.

The point is the same problem happens here, there will always be beggars and homeless people, no matter how much money is thrown at them. There are still people sitting outside shops now in and around my area, that are begging, despite the Government increased handouts.
I know people who were on huge salaries that still went for a free feed, at the events for the needy, people are people, the real problem lies with those who make it a calling to change them.
Not all want to be changed, it has taken me a long time to understand that, it's called acceptance. You can offer people more and more, how they wish to spend that money is their choice even if it isn't the way you would spend it, the only other choice is to regulate how they spend it and they don't want that.

 

[IFocus]

The point is the same problem happens here, there will always be beggars and homeless people, no matter how much money is thrown at them. There are still people sitting outside shops now in and around my area, that are begging, despite the Government increased handouts.
I know people who were on huge salaries that still went for a free feed, at the events for the needy, people are people, the real problem lies with those who make it a calling to change them.
Not all want to be changed, it has taken me a long time to understand that, it's called acceptance. You can offer people more and more, how they wish to spend that money is their choice even if it isn't the way you would spend it, the only other choice is to regulate how they spend it and they don't want that.

I don't accept that.

My daughter works with homeless (voluntarily) and has excellent story's of success in bring people back into main stream, no one deserves to be left living in gutters.

There were not always beggars, I came from a very poor background / area there were no beggars and as a kid street people in Perth were very rare unlike the US in 1987 where it was the norm, unbelievable, truly.

There was a time when the US would not allow 50,000 military veterans to be sleeping on park benches and it certainly would not be accepted here in Oz or are you saying different?

 

[satanoperca]

For some homelessness is a choice, but for the vast majority, it is not.

Before people make assumptions about the homeless, talk to them, understand their situation and story. You will see a vastly different picture than what is perceived by the majority were homelessness is not an option.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't accept that.

My daughter works with homeless (voluntarily) and has excellent story's of success in bring people back into main stream, no one deserves to be left living in gutters.

There were not always beggars, I came from a very poor background / area there were no beggars and as a kid street people in Perth were very rare unlike the US in 1987 where it was the norm, unbelievable, truly.

There was a time when the US would not allow 50,000 military veterans to be sleeping on park benches and it certainly would not be accepted here in Oz or are you saying different?

I never said any of that.
I said there is homeless now, there always will be homeless, how people spend their money is their business.
Some who don't wish to be in that situation can be helped and can turn it around, some don't wish it to be turned around, it is a lifestyle they chose.
The problem is there are others who want to force the ones to change, that don't wish to change, they usually don't isolate their crusade to one cause either.
As for the U.S I have never been there or lived there, so I wont comment on their situation, I try to only comment on what I have experience or knowledge of.
To think it can be eradicated completely, is just as flawed as thinking it can't be alleviated, as usual a center stance is the most practical expectation, but as is the way these days it has to be one way or the other.

 

[macca]

I never said any of that.
I said there is homeless now, there always will be homeless, how people spend their money is their business.
Some who don't wish to be in that situation can be helped and can turn it around, some don't wish it to be turned around, it is a lifestyle they chose.
The problem is there are others who want to force the ones to change, that don't wish to change, they usually don't isolate their crusade to one cause either.
As for the U.S I have never been there or lived there, so I wont comment on their situation, I try to only comment on what I have experience or knowledge of.
To think it can be eradicated completely, is just as flawed as thinking it can't be alleviated, as usual a center stance is the most practical expectation, but as is the way these days it has to be one way or the other.

Yes, there have been plenty of stories in the News about people begging in Sydney. Quite a few have been offered jobs but they ask about the wages and then say "I get more than that begging"

Figures of $500 per day begging, are quoted

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, there have been plenty of stories in the News about people begging in Sydney. Quite a few have been offered jobs but they ask about the wages and then say "I get more than that begging"

Figures of $500 per day begging, are quoted

I wonder if they are on the dole as well.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes, there have been plenty of stories in the News about people begging in Sydney. Quite a few have been offered jobs but they ask about the wages and then say "I get more than that begging"

Figures of $500 per day begging, are quoted

I know tradesmen, who could earn serious money, that would rather be on the dole do a bit of begging and drugs. I don't agree with it, but try and convert them at your own risk.
It is the same with public housing, I personally think heaps of it should be built it makes a ton of sense, however don't expect 100% of people who get it to respect or look after it.
That is just the way it goes, I would rather see public housing done on a joint ownership basis where the Government has a caveat on the property and the tenant has skin in the game, then anyone who really wants a home can get one in a rent to buy format linked to their welfare.

Singapore has been running a joint ownership scheme for years apparently.
Public housing in Singapore is managed by the Housing and Development Board (HDB) under a 99-year lease. The majority of the residential housing developments in Singapore are publicly governed and developed, and home to approximately 78.7% of the resident population.
The result was: not only did people get housing, but it stimulated the economy to the point where Singapore has become one of the most successful countries in the world. Over 1 million units have been built, housing more than 80% of the population, and about 90% of these people own their home.

 

[satanoperca]

Yes, there have been plenty of stories in the News about people begging in Sydney. Quite a few have been offered jobs but they ask about the wages and then say "I get more than that begging"

Figures of $500 per day begging, are quoted

Macca, you are simplifying a complex social issue, while you are correct, it is not the mainstream of homeless people, rather just opportunist.

A simple example was this morning.

Down at St Kilda for my morning coffee.

A young man approaches me, his attire was clean and presentable, he was softly spoken, he explained he was homeless and did I have any change. Well after covid, cash is not generally in my pocket. I poked into my pockets, all I had was 0.50$, which I handed over, he thank me and explained to me that was a good start to getting to the end of the day where he could buy some food. Again he was polite and respectful.

I wandered off, with my $4.50 coffee and some cigars, that I like to smoke.

Paused.

Thought to myself, if everyone was polite like that gentleman, society will be great, TURNED around, to find the young guy.

I approached him and asked if he was hungry, which he replied he was, I replied, I love the popcorn chicken from the Japanese place in the mall, would you like some?

He polity responded with he would like to accept my offer but he is a vegetarian, so cannot accept my offer.

My brain rattled.

Okay, surely we can find something, so off we went talking about how he become homeless, I found the subject quite interesting, we found a place with falafels, I like them, purchased some of them with some dip and a salad which we shared and discussed life on the park bench.

It was a lovely experience, he thanks me for the kind gesture, off I went to buy a bottle or 2 of wine for dinner.

My simple gesture or this gentlemen was worth more than the wine I purchased, engagement with others is fore filling.

NOT ALL PEOPLE are created EQUAL, Not all HOMELESS are the same. Take the time to understand before making assumptions.

 

[sptrawler]

Macca, you are simplifying a complex social issue, while you are correct, it is not the mainstream of homeless people, rather just opportunist

On what are you basing that assumption, there is 20% unemployment where my place is and businesses can't get workers. ?
My daughter in law runs the office in a road repair company and they can't get labour, not even lollipop attendants. ?
In W.A we are flying in workers from Vanuatu, because it is easier. ?

 

[satanoperca]

On what are you basing that assumption, there is 20% unemployment where my place is and businesses can't get workers. ?
My daughter in law runs the office in a road repair company and they can't get labour, not even lollipop attendants. ?
In W.A we are flying in workers from Vanuatu, because it is easier. ?

That is just one component of homelessness. Again oversimplifying a complex issue.

 

[SirRumpole]

Okay, surely we can find something, so off we went talking about how he become homeless,

So how did he become homeless may I ask ?

 

[sptrawler]

That is just one component of homelessness. Again oversimplifying a complex issue.

It's complex, that's for sure, 1.2million people on jobseeker and we are flying in laborers from Vanuatu, your telling me it's flucking complex. ? ?
There must be a lot of people on the public payroll, keeping it as complex as possible IMO. ?

 

[macca]

Macca, you are simplifying a complex social issue, while you are correct, it is not the mainstream of homeless people, rather just opportunist.

A simple example was this morning.

Down at St Kilda for my morning coffee.

A young man approaches me, his attire was clean and presentable, he was softly spoken, he explained he was homeless and did I have any change. Well after covid, cash is not generally in my pocket. I poked into my pockets, all I had was 0.50$, which I handed over, he thank me and explained to me that was a good start to getting to the end of the day where he could buy some food. Again he was polite and respectful.

I wandered off, with my $4.50 coffee and some cigars, that I like to smoke.

Paused.

Thought to myself, if everyone was polite like that gentleman, society will be great, TURNED around, to find the young guy.

I approached him and asked if he was hungry, which he replied he was, I replied, I love the popcorn chicken from the Japanese place in the mall, would you like some?

He polity responded with he would like to accept my offer but he is a vegetarian, so cannot accept my offer.

My brain rattled.

Okay, surely we can find something, so off we went talking about how he become homeless, I found the subject quite interesting, we found a place with falafels, I like them, purchased some of them with some dip and a salad which we shared and discussed life on the park bench.

It was a lovely experience, he thanks me for the kind gesture, off I went to buy a bottle or 2 of wine for dinner.

My simple gesture or this gentlemen was worth more than the wine I purchased, engagement with others is fore filling.

NOT ALL PEOPLE are created EQUAL, Not all HOMELESS are the same. Take the time to understand before making assumptions.

Not really, just an example of why some beggars are "homeless" by choice, even when they actually live in shared accomm somewhere.

I have a close family member who works with Vietnam Vets, alcoholics, PTSD sufferers etc so I am very aware of the problems out there.

It is very annoying for those who would love more funding to see boutique homeless and professional beggars soaking up Govt funding when it should be used for those who are in dire need.

There is an old saying "beggars can't be choosers" I suspect the recipient of your good deed was in fact someone who wasn't really that hungry but I do applaud your very kind and generous act

 

[sptrawler]

Macca, you are simplifying a complex social issue, while you are correct, it is not the mainstream of homeless people, rather just opportunist.

A simple example was this morning.

Down at St Kilda for my morning coffee.

A young man approaches me, his attire was clean and presentable, he was softly spoken, he explained he was homeless and did I have any change. Well after covid, cash is not generally in my pocket. I poked into my pockets, all I had was 0.50$, which I handed over, he thank me and explained to me that was a good start to getting to the end of the day where he could buy some food. Again he was polite and respectful.

I wandered off, with my $4.50 coffee and some cigars, that I like to smoke.

Paused.

Thought to myself, if everyone was polite like that gentleman, society will be great, TURNED around, to find the young guy.

I approached him and asked if he was hungry, which he replied he was, I replied, I love the popcorn chicken from the Japanese place in the mall, would you like some?

He polity responded with he would like to accept my offer but he is a vegetarian, so cannot accept my offer.

My brain rattled.

Okay, surely we can find something, so off we went talking about how he become homeless, I found the subject quite interesting, we found a place with falafels, I like them, purchased some of them with some dip and a salad which we shared and discussed life on the park bench.

It was a lovely experience, he thanks me for the kind gesture, off I went to buy a bottle or 2 of wine for dinner.

My simple gesture or this gentlemen was worth more than the wine I purchased, engagement with others is fore filling.

NOT ALL PEOPLE are created EQUAL, Not all HOMELESS are the same. Take the time to understand before making assumptions.

I was out the front of Woolworths waiting for it to open, in Mandurah CBD the other week, there are often homeless there.
A lady was standing near myself when one of the homeless walked over and asked her if she had any money she could give, the lady replied she had no change and used a credit card to which the homeless person said there is an ATM around the corner and when she moved away he abused her.

So yes we all have incidents that highlight there are differences, as in most walks of life, but for most able bodied people the only real hope of changing their circumstances is for them to find gainful employment.
Which goes back to my previous post, of how can we be importing laborers when we have 1.2 million on jobseeker, they can't all be just in an unfortunate point of life that stops them from working.