Australia's high personal debt

[SirRumpole]

I can't think of any reason why a debit card would not be accepted, unless there is some kickback to the vendor from the bank charging exhorbitant interest rates.

Sounds like another job for the Royal Commission if that's the case.

 

[HelloU]

Agreed in principle but the banks have created a system where having a credit card is almost essential for some aspects of living.

Try checking into a hotel or hiring something without a credit card. Even a Visa or MasterCard debit card won’t be accepted in some cases, they insist it’s an actual credit card.

Given the banks created this system I think it’s not unreasonable that they ought be prohibited from refusing to issue one credit card with a low limit to anyone with no other cards given it’s borderline essential in practice.

Should the banks not like that idea then just pass a law requiring cash to always be an acceptable form of payment without exception.

In principle I agree with your point but banks have made credit cards pretty much essential for many in practice so I think it’s fair and reasonable that the banks accept the costs of what they’ve created. Either that or go back to cash always being accepted everywhere. Or remove the distinction between a debit and credit card as a workaround.

smurf, are you talking about recent rejection issues? I cannot remember any issue in the way you describe so find it odd (I always select credit at the checkout to have it rejected before I select savings....but that is my dumbness) Or I have some visa debit cards that have code defined uses so sometimes bounce depending on the merchant code but that is another matter again and not something that many others would be exposed to for a general transaction).

Another rejection I can think of is if the transaction has been treated as a 'cash forwarding' and the account did not have enough balance to cover it.....cos your card usually just draws from a linked account automatically to cover the days payments (but will not do this auto draw for this 'cash' transaction type)

Anyway, like I said, I find it strange......

 

[luutzu]

How did you manage?

Good books. Great advise. Ability to inflate my own ego by measuring achievements by whatever I currently have rather than what I "ought to" have

You definitely do not want to measure my ability based on my extraneous assets and bank account. No sir.

 

[sptrawler]

Good books. Great advise. Ability to inflate my own ego by measuring achievements by whatever I currently have rather than what I "ought to" have

Sounds like ability to take responsibility, for your own outcomes, to me.

Not everyone who starts a business becomes rich, but most who don't work yet smoke and drink, can be assured of being poor.

 

[luutzu]

Sounds like ability to take responsibility, for your own outcomes, to me.

Not everyone who starts a business becomes rich, but most who don't work yet smoke and drink, can be assured of being poor.

Most of those who were born poor tend to stay poor too. Same with most of those born into wealth... unless they really, really screwed up, it's very hard for them to fall into poverty. Two even became president


My wife read recently that Selective Schools... which were meant to give poor but talented kids a break into well-resourced schools among talented students. That's fast become the play ground of upper-middle class kids.

See... they have these tests the kids take. What are those tests and who does well in it? Not the "natural talent", but hard, concrete, measurable scholastic test. The kind of test you'd do well if you could afford private tutoring.

At some $60 an hour... good luck poor kids. There are burgers to flip and driveways to pave.

Nothing against rich people. Just saying that the invisible hands are everywhere at work.

 

[HelloU]

OT
often to do with exposure as well....kids that have always been surrounded by header drivers, gin workers (cotton), roo shooters, drovers and shearers are unlikely to announce on their last day of school that they want to be a neurologist.

 

[sptrawler]

Most of those who were born poor tend to stay poor too. Same with most of those born into wealth... unless they really, really screwed up, it's very hard for them to fall into poverty. Two even became president


My wife read recently that Selective Schools... which were meant to give poor but talented kids a break into well-resourced schools among talented students. That's fast become the play ground of upper-middle class kids.

See... they have these tests the kids take. What are those tests and who does well in it? Not the "natural talent", but hard, concrete, measurable scholastic test. The kind of test you'd do well if you could afford private tutoring.

At some $60 an hour... good luck poor kids. There are burgers to flip and driveways to pave.

Nothing against rich people. Just saying that the invisible hands are everywhere at work.

Well they will certainly stay poor with that outlook, thank god I didn't have it.

 

[luutzu]

Well they will certainly stay poor with that outlook, thank god I didn't have it.

Thinking happy thoughts don't always make it come true though.

I guess it's easier to see if you know people in the poorer countries. Plenty of idiots sitting in high places while average smart kids labouring in the great outdoor.

 

[sptrawler]

Thinking happy thoughts don't always make it come true though.

No, but wallowing around in self pity saying woe is me, I can't do it, always makes it come true.

 

[luutzu]

No, but wallowing around in self pity saying woe is me, I can't do it, always makes it come true.

 

[Smurf1976]

Are the banks the driving force behind this?

I'm not sure but I do know there have been a few situations where I'd have been pretty much stuffed without a credit card and cash, EFTPOS or a debit card weren't acceptable.

Checking into hotels is one such situation. In Australia most ask for a credit card. Overseas I've had some refuse to accept a debit card and insist it must be a credit card as such. In all cases this is where accommodation has already been paid and they only want the card in case I decide to smash the room up etc.

Car rentals similar experiences.

I've encountered a few road tolls and the like, situations where there's a physical barrier you can't drive past without payment, where other means of payment weren't impossible but a credit card was an order of magnitude easier in practice.

Overall I just see that a situation has been created where someone not having a credit card is a bit like not having either a drivers license or a passport. You might not need to borrow money and you might have no intention of driving or going overseas but without them you'll still run into hassles with something as simple as hiring machinery or checking into a hotel when they insist on the credit card as security and also require photo ID for which you need either a drivers licence or a passport (and yes I've been asked for photo ID at a hotel a couple of times).

So I thus see that credit cards have become much like the internet or electricity. Strictly speaking not essential but they are in practice and for that reason I think they along with basic transaction accounts ought to be deemed an essential service and subject to appropriate regulation.

 

[HelloU]

ok....I have NEVER had a CC but also do not remember brick walls for similar transactions.......maybe u stay at flasher hotels........I only need one hour....two max, but showing off now.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not sure but I do know there have been a few situations where I'd have been pretty much stuffed without a credit card and cash, EFTPOS or a debit card weren't acceptable.

I agree, we use a credit card for 95% of our purchases, both here and overseas.
But we do pay off the balance, as it arrives.

 

[SirRumpole]

I agree, we use a credit card for 95% of our purchases, both here and overseas.
But we do pay off the balance, as it arrives.

It doesn't seem much different from a debit card in that case.

 

[sptrawler]

It doesn't seem much different from a debit card in that case.

That's true, very similar, but I'm not sure you get frequent flyers on a debit card.

 

[sptrawler]

Here is an example of high personal debt gone wrong, the bank shouldn't have lent them the money, also they shouldn't have asked for it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-18/westpac-accused-of-breaching-responsible-lending-laws/10002370

 

[Smurf1976]

smurf, are you talking about recent rejection issues?

I've had it happen twice in the past year or so. In both cases it was the same story - either we have an imprint of a credit card or you sir are not staying in our hotel no matter what. This was after rejecting a debit card.

One night roaming the streets of Adelaide would have been a nuisance but I could have lived. Would have been less keen on doing it for a few days in Germany though due to lack of familiarity with where I was, nowhere to store luggage and so on.

No doubt I would have encountered it far more often had I actually tried to avoid it more often.

So my conclusion is that a credit card is much like a drivers licence. You need it even if you don't actually want to borrow money or drive since it has other functions in practice and many things are set up on the assumption that everyone has one. Owning a mobile phone is much the same too - it's just assumed that everyone has one these days.

I say this as someone who's always had a card but never paid interest because I always pay the balance off in full each month. I wouldn't choose to not have one though due to the reasons I mention.

 

[HelloU]

I've had it happen twice in the past year or so. In both cases it was the same story - either we have an imprint of a credit card or you sir are not staying in our hotel no matter what. This was after rejecting a debit card.

One night roaming the streets of Adelaide would have been a nuisance but I could have lived. Would have been less keen on doing it for a few days in Germany though due to lack of familiarity with where I was, nowhere to store luggage and so on.

No doubt I would have encountered it far more often had I actually tried to avoid it more often.

So my conclusion is that a credit card is much like a drivers licence. You need it even if you don't actually want to borrow money or drive since it has other functions in practice and many things are set up on the assumption that everyone has one. Owning a mobile phone is much the same too - it's just assumed that everyone has one these days.

I say this as someone who's always had a card but never paid interest because I always pay the balance off in full each month. I wouldn't choose to not have one though due to the reasons I mention.

cheers, I get it now, The imprint thing is open ended (no dollar figures involved ).....a debit card does not allow that to happen in the same way - the debit requires a discrete value to be nominated.....(my interpretation)...I do remember now plonking a couple of grand on the counter somewhere as shutup money.
on street walking (and adelaide reference but could really be anywhere) that is why they build casinos imo.
see ya

 

[sptrawler]

Are the banks the driving force behind this? Or is it the push toward a cashless society?
The Government is pushing towards a welfare card, my guess is the cashless society, is closer than people realise.
I think when it arrives, a lot of todays issues will be resolved, and new ones will be created.

Like I said, I believe the cashless society will be upon us sooner rather than later, we just embrace technology.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-cash-chorus-for-buskers-20180725-p4ztlv.html

Even buskers are getting pay wave readers. lol

 

[Smurf1976]

Like I said, I believe the cashless society will be upon us sooner rather than later, we just embrace technology.

Only thing I've used cash for in the past 6 months is some household goods I sold via Gumtree and then subsequently spending that cash in the shops to get rid of it. Apart from that I simply don't use it all these days although I do keep some on hand just in case.