Australian Politics General...

[IFocus]

Not only the right wing press, but it sounds like the left wing press are going into melt down too. He certainly gets responses.

Simply foul and morally vacuous: if Keating had his way, we’d cast aside 24 million free people

The Liberal chairman of the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security responds to former prime minister Paul Keating.

www.smh.com.au

Not left wing, written by the Liberal party James Paterson is chairman of the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security and a Liberal senator for Victoria

Keating was giving a very hard nose assessment, his comments and reasoning on India and Japan were telling as were his reasoning on China's future IMHO.

 

[sptrawler]

Not left wing, written by the Liberal party James Paterson is chairman of the parliamentary joint committee on intelligence and security and a Liberal senator for Victoria

Keating was giving a very hard nose assessment, his comments and reasoning on India and Japan were telling as were his reasoning on China's future IMHO.

I didn't realise, usually the SMH is just pro left wing, so I was surprised when they had a negative headline for Keating.
It is most unusual for them to give an opinion, of a Liberal politician, unless it reflects badly on the author.

Keating always has good points to make, however as with most politicians, one has to look at it from their perspective, because they usually don't look at things from your perspective.

 

[Humid]

I didn't realise, usually the SMH is just pro left wing, so I was surprised when they had a negative headline for Keating.
It is most unusual for them to give an opinion, of a Liberal politician, unless it reflects badly on the author.

Keating always has good points to make, however as with most politicians, one has to look at it from their perspective, because they usually don't look at things from your perspective.

This is the major problem.....shooting from the hip........replacement

 

[sptrawler]

This is the major problem.....shooting from the hip........replacement

Or shooting from the lip... when you have nothing.... intelligent to add. ?

 

[bk1]

when you have nothing.... intelligent to add

He is no longer in office, does not lead the party, and by extension, have an electorate to appeal to.
So they say all sorts of stuff that bears no relation to their actions when they held high office.
I was relatively new to this country when Keating once described the Senate as "unrepresentative swill". ...

 

[sptrawler]

He is no longer in office, does not lead the party, and by extension, have an electorate to appeal to.
So they say all sorts of stuff that bears no relation to their actions when they held high office.
I was relatively new to this country when Keating once described the Senate as "unrepresentative swill". ...

Sorry if you missed the humor, my comment was directed at @Humid , as his was directed at me.
Just a bit of side banter, going on.
A bit of a case of a battle of wits, unfortunately he is unarmed. ?

 

[Humid]

Or shooting from the lip... when you have nothing.... intelligent to add. ?

Not covered by private health....leave the funny stuff to me Homer

 

[sptrawler]

Not covered by private health....leave the funny stuff to me Homer

Why? You aren't very good at it. ?

 

[mullokintyre]

just read this in ABC NEWS

The WA government has used its parliamentary majority to overhaul the state's electoral laws, which critics say will diminish regional representation.
Rather than Upper House MPs being chosen from six regions of varying size, the whole state will serve as a single electorate with 37 members elected under a "one-vote, one-value" system.

Group voting tickets, which critics argue are used to 'game' the system using complex preference deals to elect candidates with tiny shares of the vote, will also be abolished.

The changes will come into effect after the Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Equality) Bill 2021 passed the Legislative Council overnight.

Under the previous system, Perth voters only elected half of the Upper House MPs despite making up 75 per cent of the state's electors.

In the most dramatic example, 4 per cent of voters who lived in the Mining and Pastoral region were able to elect nearly 17 per cent
of Upper House members, meaning their vote carried six times more weight.

Much has been made of Scomo being labelled a liar.
I wonder if the MSM will label McGowan in the same way when you consider the next paragraph of the story.

Despite repeatedly claiming it was "not on the agenda" during the state election campaign, Premier Mark McGowan swiftly moved to introduce electoral reform after securing a majority in both houses.

if we accept the "one vote one value dictum", then the WA legislative changes make sense.
As to whether its equitable, depends on where you come from.
The regional areas will say they will be completely overwhelmed by the city based vote, but that is countered by the one vote one value principal.
However, I would be more than a little surprised if the WA folk would not be up in arms if somebody tried to apply the same rules to that august body, the Senate, once referred to by PJ Keating as "unrepresentative swill".
In the 2016 election, the quota for NSW was 345,554 votes per senate seat.
For WA it was105,091, which makes WA's votes more than 3 times more "valuable" than the NSW.
Just for interest, the other states were
Victoria 269,250
QLD 209475
SA 81,629
Tas 26,090
ACT 84,923
NT 34,010
Quite some disparity there between value for votes.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

just read this in ABC NEWS

Much has been made of Scomo being labelled a liar.
I wonder if the MSM will label McGowan in the same way when you consider the next paragraph of the story.

if we accept the "one vote one value dictum", then the WA legislative changes make sense.
As to whether its equitable, depends on where you come from.
The regional areas will say they will be completely overwhelmed by the city based vote, but that is countered by the one vote one value principal.
However, I would be more than a little surprised if the WA folk would not be up in arms if somebody tried to apply the same rules to that august body, the Senate, once referred to by PJ Keating as "unrepresentative swill".
In the 2016 election, the quota for NSW was 345,554 votes per senate seat.
For WA it was105,091, which makes WA's votes more than 3 times more "valuable" than the NSW.
Just for interest, the other states were
Victoria 269,250
QLD 209475
SA 81,629
Tas 26,090
ACT 84,923
NT 34,010
Quite some disparity there between value for votes.
Mick

I fail to see why McGowan would do this when he has such a massive majority.

He's probably got 3 terms at least, why not stick with the system that put him there ?

A few demerits to him imo.

 

[mullokintyre]

I fail to see why McGowan would do this when he has such a massive majority.

He's probably got 3 terms at least, why not stick with the system that put him there ?

A few demerits to him imo.

He is thinking of the future Labour Governments.
And it is still possible for a government that gets a massive majority to lose it just as quickly.
Ask Campbell Newman , the classic one term government.
John Howard came within a whisker of losing a massive majority in his first re election after introducing the GST.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, in the past Country areas had a bit of leverage, that will be gone. So I guess it may result in reduced funding, to the Country areas.

 

[IFocus]

I fail to see why McGowan would do this when he has such a massive majority.

He's probably got 3 terms at least, why not stick with the system that put him there ?

A few demerits to him imo.

The upper house is so stacked against Labor I don't ever remember them winning it in my life time so the change to one vote one value makes sense in terms of democracy will be in line with most other states NSW etc.

Changes will also stop people getting elected with 100 or so votes such as the Daylight saving party.

Compare current upper and lower houses and you can see the disparity

Seating Plans

View the Legislative Council interactive seating plan to obtain information about Members of the Legislative Council.

www.parliament.wa.gov.au

Seating Plans

View the Legislative Council interactive seating plan to obtain information about Members of the Legislative Assembly..

www.parliament.wa.gov.au

 

[moXJO]

Changing the voting system usually ends up biting you on the bum a few years later.

 

[SirRumpole]

Changing the voting system usually ends up biting you on the bum a few years later.

Heard of Joh Bjelke-Peterson ? It didn't do him much harm.

 

[moXJO]

Heard of Joh Bjelke-Peterson ? It didn't do him much harm.

Did the nationals ever get in again after him (serious question)?

 

[IFocus]

Did the nationals ever get in again after him (serious question)?

They still dominated the conservator side of politics in Queensland so much so the Liberals joined forces

 

[mullokintyre]

As Genghis Dan struggles to get support fro his draconian emergency powers legislation through the Victorian upper house, it is interesting to not the structure of the upper house.
As it stands now, of the the 40 seats, Labour has 17, obviously not a majority.
So to get legislation passed , Labour must negotiate with the rest.
Negotiating with the coalition is out of the question. They will vote against world peace.
However, the coalition with 11 seats is not the next biggest grouping.
The cross bench, that mix of independents and minor parties, at 12 members, is a larger grouping than the coalition.
I wonder if this will start to become the norm in the future, as more and more people turn away from major parties?
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

As Genghis Dan struggles to get support fro his draconian emergency powers legislation through the Victorian upper house, it is interesting to not the structure of the upper house.
As it stands now, of the the 40 seats, Labour has 17, obviously not a majority.
So to get legislation passed , Labour must negotiate with the rest.
Negotiating with the coalition is out of the question. They will vote against world peace.
However, the coalition with 11 seats is not the next biggest grouping.
The cross bench, that mix of independents and minor parties, at 12 members, is a larger grouping than the coalition.
I wonder if this will start to become the norm in the future, as more and more people turn away from major parties?
Mick

As WA shows, it depends on the quality of the leadership. But WA is pretty isolated, on the East Coast I reckon people are thinking that it's a 'least worst' situation with both major parties and are going for indies like Zali Steggle and Andrew Wilke. So if you are a good quality indie then you have a chance. My Federal seat is pretty strong National, but was held by an Independent for 11 years.

 

[mullokintyre]

There have been a few announced retirements from the Victorian parliament recently.
Tim Smith was the the coalition sacrifice, but then they never had many members to start with.
However, the Andrews labour government has had a pretty steady turnover this parliament.
Yesterday, Richard Wynne announced his intention to not run for nomination for the next election.
He joined Jill Hennessy, the former Ag who was touted as a potential successor the Daniel Andrews who had announced her not contesting the next election the day before.
About a month ago, Dustin Haise, a first time member, shocked more than a few people when he announced that Politics was not what it was cracked up to be and would not be recontesting.
Just prior to that Danielle Green, a member for 20 years announced that she too would not be recontesting.
Thats four retirees.
Then there were the forced retirees Like jenny Mikakos who was shoved under the bus by Andrews in the aftermath of the first covid pandemic breakout.
And who could forget Jane Garett forced to resign over the brawl between the Firefighters Union, the Victorian Government, and the CFA.
Victorian Upper House MP, Adem Somyurek, although still in parliament, was kicked out of the Labour party for a number of indiscretions.
Luke Donellan had to quit the Victorian cabinet over his role in the branch stacking furore, and it remains to be seen whether he will be allowed to recontest his seat for the next election.
Anthony Byrne was another casualty of the branch stacking reports, but he was federal labour.
Andrews is lucky he has so many members in both houses, otherwise he might run out of people to promote to cabinet.
Mick