Australian Politics General...

[wayneL]

Seems like it's a poor reflection on Australia's rural folk that they look at that florid idiot and think he's the kind of person they want representing him.

Every major party has forsaken their base constituency.

In no way shape or form is Also representing the labour movement.

In no way shape or form is scomo representing classical liberalism.

In no way shape or form does bandt represent environmentalism.

All are economic fascists and petty tyrants.

This is why we should be selecting parties to represent our individual interests. if people actually did that, rather than unthinkingly voting for what we believe is our tribet, he major parties would be wiped the f*** out.

And that would be a stunningly spectacularly good result.

 

[mullokintyre]

Seems like it's a poor reflection on Australia's rural folk that they look at that florid idiot and think he's the kind of person they want representing him.

The problem is, none of the other parties give a rats ar$e about anyone or anything outside of the capital cities.
So Barnaby it is.
He's just a politician.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

What are you talking about Mick?
Try living in Perth and then try show your grandkids, where they live on map of Australia, as presented by the media.

 

[mullokintyre]

What are you talking about Mick?
Try living in Perth and then try show your grandkids, where they live on map of Australia, as presented by the media.

View attachment 132188

I tried living in Perth for a month back in the mid 70's, but the comms (the lack thereof) with the eastern states made life very difficult then.
I hope it has improved a tad since those days.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

I tried living in Perth for a month back in the mid 70's, but the comms (the lack thereof) with the eastern states made life very difficult then.
I hope it has improved a tad since those days.
Mick

Ah the good old days, ring the operator then put in the correct amount of 20cent pieces and press button A.

 

[Humid]

 

[mullokintyre]

Ah the good old days, ring the operator then put in the correct amount of 20cent pieces and press button A.

I was trying to run one of those stupid analogue modems that had the old phone handset cradle.
We were trying to connect the Perth office to the east,
Total disaster.
Mick

 

[wayneL]

Luxury!

We only had Morse code.

 

[sptrawler]

View attachment 132191

I don't normally listen to T.V interviews, but as this submarine issue has been blown up, I thought I would listen to this interview posted to day.

Australia news as it happened: Scott Morrison arrives in Glasgow for COP26 climate summit; Victoria records 1471 new local COVID-19 cases, four deaths; NSW records 135 new cases, four deaths

Fully vaccinated international travellers now able to skip mandatory hotel quarantine in Sydney and Melbourne, unvaccinated Queenslanders have missed a key target and the leaders of the world’s biggest economies have failed to agree on how to achieve a crucial emissions goal.

www.smh.com.au

It is embedded, so can't get a direct link, but it is in a shipyard must be in the U.K., 20 minute interview not subscription.
Interesting it isn't available as a stand alone article, considering its importance, he does actually go through the whole sequence of events.
Not that it interests the Australian media, the SMH embed it so it is lost, News corp paywall it and the ABC don't post it.
Last thing that Australians need is actual information from the source, no you can only read or hear, what the media wants you to hear.
Tune in to the project, the 7.30 report, Q&A, any of the early morning gossip shows, to learn what the "real" issue is and get you your daily dose of Knowledge.

 

[wayneL]

...and just as a sidebar (Lyden is my hero, seriously):

 

[sptrawler]

...and just as a sidebar (Lyden is my hero, seriously):

Actually the left wing have nailed it, they can say WTF they like, because through history they have been seen as the meek who are oppressed.
Now they are in a position of control, they have become the aggressor but are using the shield of meekness to be just as aggressive as the right wing were previously.
Fortunately on the Bell shaped curve, the fanatics fall at both ends and are the minority, it is only in times of desperation that the fanatics usually take over as the majority are at those times desperate.
The last thing Australians are ATM is desperate, they may be desperate to buy a house in Melbourne or Sydney, but in reality they ain't desperate. So middle Australia will have its way, as usual, despite the rantings and ravings.

 

[Humid]

I don't normally listen to T.V interviews, but as this submarine issue has been blown up, I thought I would listen to this interview posted to day.

Australia news as it happened: Scott Morrison arrives in Glasgow for COP26 climate summit; Victoria records 1471 new local COVID-19 cases, four deaths; NSW records 135 new cases, four deaths

Fully vaccinated international travellers now able to skip mandatory hotel quarantine in Sydney and Melbourne, unvaccinated Queenslanders have missed a key target and the leaders of the world’s biggest economies have failed to agree on how to achieve a crucial emissions goal.

www.smh.com.au

It is embedded, so can't get a direct link, but it is in a shipyard must be in the U.K., 20 minute interview not subscription.
Interesting it isn't available as a stand alone article, considering its importance, he does actually go through the whole sequence of events.
Not that it interests the Australian media, the SMH embed it so it is lost, News corp paywall it and the ABC don't post it.
Last thing that Australians need is actual information from the source, no you can only read or hear, what the media wants you to hear.
Tune in to the project, the 7.30 report, Q&A, any of the early morning gossip shows, to learn what the "real" issue is and get you your daily dose of Knowledge.

I think you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.....a great distraction from the lack of climate policy
Suckered by murdoch again

 

[sptrawler]

I think you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.....a great distraction from the lack of climate policy
Suckered by murdoch again

It was the Sydney Morning Herald, I don't think that is Murdoch and he was only addressing the media attack over the subs, which is what seems to be filling the media at the moment.
So I guess if he had refused to answer the question about the subs and only talked about climate change, you would be saying he was avoiding the subs issue?
Win, Win.
This is the problem when you are overly invested in your belief, you don't open your mind to other ideas, but it is great to see passion.

 

[sptrawler]

Finally an article on the issue.
I put an important piece of highlighted information in, that was in the broadcast interview, but was omitted from this transcript, most unusual.
If you listen to the actual interview, it wasn't until just before the AUKUS announcement, that the UK and U.S agreed to let us have the nuclear subs, then Morrison told Macron they were looking at alternatives as there had been dramas with the French contract and by the time they arrived in 2038 they would be useless.
I guess now the media will try and scuttle the nuclear sub deal, then they have a new headline, it is all so predictable.

PM points to secret texts as he hits back at French leader over submarine row

Scott Morrison cited the text messages as proof that he gave President Emmanuel Macron fair warning the deal would be dumped.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has hit back in his extraordinary row with President Emmanuel Macron over claims that he lied about a $90 billion submarine contract, citing secret text messages as proof that he gave the French leader fair warning the deal would be dumped.

One day after Mr Macron accused him on camera of lying about the deal, Mr Morrison revealed more details about their private talks to justify the way he cancelled the contract and formed a submarine alliance with the United States and the United Kingdom.

“This was a highly secure decision, a highly secure announcement, over which we had held these things incredibly tightly, not just for many months but in Australia’s case for more than a year,” Mr Morrison said.

“It was my obligation to advise him of that directly. He was clearly aware over some months that there were concerns, and they were responding to those concerns.

“We had correspondence and other messaging during that period. And we decided, in Australia’s interest, not to go ahead.”

Mr Morrison said the search for an alternative had been under way with the Australian Defence Force for 18 months, but intensified when Naval Group of France failed to meet a deadline for part of the project last year.

“We were supposed to have gone through the Scope Two projects gate the previous December and those marks were missed,” he said. “Ironically, had that been achieved, then quite likely all of this would have been moot.

“That opened up a further opportunity for us to pursue our alternative, which I did, in Australia’s interest, and I make no apology for it.”

Mr Morrison said he discussed the alliance with Mr Biden and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the G7 summit in Cornwall in June this year( where it was actually finally agreed Australia would gain access to US/UK submarines) and had dinner with Mr Macron several days later in Paris where he told him Australia was considering alternatives to the Attack-class submarines meant to be built by Naval Group.

Loading
“At our dinner I gave the opportunity for the French to respond to the matters I had raised and that took place over the next few months,” Mr Morrison said.

“Now, we eventually formed the view that we would agree to disagree and the Attack-class submarine would not meet our requirements and we decided, finally, only in the days before the announcement of the AUKUS arrangement(when the US and UK agreed they would let Australia have their nuclear submarine technology and going forward with that decision on nuclear submarines, was that decision finally made.

“And that occurred at the same time that I could be assured that we had a clear path forward for a nuclear submarine.
“I was not going to leave Australia stranded between two projects.”

Mr Morrison defended his handling of the affair by saying Australia was able to secure access to nuclear submarine technology possessed by only two other countries, the US and the UK.
The technology fits a nuclear reactor to a submarine without needing replacement or additional nuclear fuel during decades of service, a vital difference with the French model because it means Australia would not need a civil nuclear industry to maintain the vessel.
Loading
Mr Morrison noted that Mr Macron sent a French admiral to Australia after the dinner in Paris and the French defence industry mobilised to try to save the deal, proof in his view that the French knew the contract could be cancelled.
“There was a three-month period when the issues that had been raised were being discussed between French and Australian officials and the Naval Group,” he said.

“There’s no easy way to say to a contractor that you are going to not proceed through the next gate of the contract.”

 

[Humid]

Here’s something that definitely happened: At no time did the Aust Govt formally advise the French Govt that the subs deal was dead before the AUKUS announcement. Inklings and reading between the lines don’t cut it.

 

[Humid]

Finally an article on the issue.
I put an important piece of highlighted information in, that was in the broadcast interview, but was omitted from this transcript, most unusual.
If you listen to the actual interview, it wasn't until just before the AUKUS announcement, that the UK and U.S agreed to let us have the nuclear subs, then Morrison told Macron they were looking at alternatives as there had been dramas with the French contract and by the time they arrived in 2038 they would be useless.
I guess now the media will try and scuttle the nuclear sub deal, then they have a new headline, it is all so predictable.

PM points to secret texts as he hits back at French leader over submarine row

Scott Morrison cited the text messages as proof that he gave President Emmanuel Macron fair warning the deal would be dumped.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has hit back in his extraordinary row with President Emmanuel Macron over claims that he lied about a $90 billion submarine contract, citing secret text messages as proof that he gave the French leader fair warning the deal would be dumped.

One day after Mr Macron accused him on camera of lying about the deal, Mr Morrison revealed more details about their private talks to justify the way he cancelled the contract and formed a submarine alliance with the United States and the United Kingdom.

“This was a highly secure decision, a highly secure announcement, over which we had held these things incredibly tightly, not just for many months but in Australia’s case for more than a year,” Mr Morrison said.

“It was my obligation to advise him of that directly. He was clearly aware over some months that there were concerns, and they were responding to those concerns.

“We had correspondence and other messaging during that period. And we decided, in Australia’s interest, not to go ahead.”

Mr Morrison said the search for an alternative had been under way with the Australian Defence Force for 18 months, but intensified when Naval Group of France failed to meet a deadline for part of the project last year.

“We were supposed to have gone through the Scope Two projects gate the previous December and those marks were missed,” he said. “Ironically, had that been achieved, then quite likely all of this would have been moot.

“That opened up a further opportunity for us to pursue our alternative, which I did, in Australia’s interest, and I make no apology for it.”

Mr Morrison said he discussed the alliance with Mr Biden and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the G7 summit in Cornwall in June this year( where it was actually finally agreed Australia would gain access to US/UK submarines) and had dinner with Mr Macron several days later in Paris where he told him Australia was considering alternatives to the Attack-class submarines meant to be built by Naval Group.

Loading
“At our dinner I gave the opportunity for the French to respond to the matters I had raised and that took place over the next few months,” Mr Morrison said.

“Now, we eventually formed the view that we would agree to disagree and the Attack-class submarine would not meet our requirements and we decided, finally, only in the days before the announcement of the AUKUS arrangement(when the US and UK agreed they would let Australia have their nuclear submarine technology and going forward with that decision on nuclear submarines, was that decision finally made.

“And that occurred at the same time that I could be assured that we had a clear path forward for a nuclear submarine.
“I was not going to leave Australia stranded between two projects.”

Mr Morrison defended his handling of the affair by saying Australia was able to secure access to nuclear submarine technology possessed by only two other countries, the US and the UK.
The technology fits a nuclear reactor to a submarine without needing replacement or additional nuclear fuel during decades of service, a vital difference with the French model because it means Australia would not need a civil nuclear industry to maintain the vessel.
Loading
Mr Morrison noted that Mr Macron sent a French admiral to Australia after the dinner in Paris and the French defence industry mobilised to try to save the deal, proof in his view that the French knew the contract could be cancelled.
“There was a three-month period when the issues that had been raised were being discussed between French and Australian officials and the Naval Group,” he said.

“There’s no easy way to say to a contractor that you are going to not proceed through the next gate of the contract.”

Yeah its called confirmation bias glad you found it

 

[sptrawler]

Here’s something that definitely happened: At no time did the Aust Govt formally advise the French Govt that the subs deal was dead before the AUKUS announcement. Inklings and reading between the lines don’t cut it.

That's true.
I bought shares in SO4 recently, they told me that everything was 95% up and running, ready to rock and roll, but then they folded am I pizzed "yes", does it matter "No".
The French contract was $hit start to finish, it was behind schedule and over budget for a ridiculous product, it was canned when a better option became available, that's life.
They will have been paid for what they have done, or should we just continue down the track of buying a pile crap? Then everyone would be complaining about the pile of crap submarines.
Lets be honest Abbott organised building replacement subs with the Japanese, then Turnbull threw all that out and went with the French, they are all no better than each other.

Japan calls for explanation on subs snub as France celebrates win

The Australian Government's decision to award France the $50 billion submarine contract provokes a sensitive diplomatic engagement with Japan.

www.abc.net.au

Does anyone think for one minute if the roles were reversed France wouldn't pull out of a contract with us, yeh right. If the French had been on time and on budget, Australia probably wouldn't have been able to get out of the contract.
I don't care who made the decision, $90 billion dollar diesel powered subs in 2038, ain't going to cut it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Every major party has forsaken their base constituency.

In no way shape or form is Also representing the labour movement.

In no way shape or form is scomo representing classical liberalism.

In no way shape or form does bandt represent environmentalism.

All are economic fascists and petty tyrants.

This is why we should be selecting parties to represent our individual interests. if people actually did that, rather than unthinkingly voting for what we believe is our tribet, he major parties would be wiped the f*** out.

And that would be a stunningly spectacularly good result.

Well, Labor represents the unions which are becoming increasingly irrelevant.

The LNP represents the rich and large business.

The Greens represent a small environmental lobby.

Hanson represents right wing nutcases.

The only people I see representing ordinary wage and salary earners are Independants , and may their tribe increase, which is what I think you are saying wayne ?

 

[Humid]

Finally an article on the issue.
I put an important piece of highlighted information in, that was in the broadcast interview, but was omitted from this transcript, most unusual.
If you listen to the actual interview, it wasn't until just before the AUKUS announcement, that the UK and U.S agreed to let us have the nuclear subs, then Morrison told Macron they were looking at alternatives as there had been dramas with the French contract and by the time they arrived in 2038 they would be useless.
I guess now the media will try and scuttle the nuclear sub deal, then they have a new headline, it is all so predictable.

PM points to secret texts as he hits back at French leader over submarine row

Scott Morrison cited the text messages as proof that he gave President Emmanuel Macron fair warning the deal would be dumped.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has hit back in his extraordinary row with President Emmanuel Macron over claims that he lied about a $90 billion submarine contract, citing secret text messages as proof that he gave the French leader fair warning the deal would be dumped.

One day after Mr Macron accused him on camera of lying about the deal, Mr Morrison revealed more details about their private talks to justify the way he cancelled the contract and formed a submarine alliance with the United States and the United Kingdom.

“This was a highly secure decision, a highly secure announcement, over which we had held these things incredibly tightly, not just for many months but in Australia’s case for more than a year,” Mr Morrison said.

“It was my obligation to advise him of that directly. He was clearly aware over some months that there were concerns, and they were responding to those concerns.

“We had correspondence and other messaging during that period. And we decided, in Australia’s interest, not to go ahead.”

Mr Morrison said the search for an alternative had been under way with the Australian Defence Force for 18 months, but intensified when Naval Group of France failed to meet a deadline for part of the project last year.

“We were supposed to have gone through the Scope Two projects gate the previous December and those marks were missed,” he said. “Ironically, had that been achieved, then quite likely all of this would have been moot.

“That opened up a further opportunity for us to pursue our alternative, which I did, in Australia’s interest, and I make no apology for it.”

Mr Morrison said he discussed the alliance with Mr Biden and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the G7 summit in Cornwall in June this year( where it was actually finally agreed Australia would gain access to US/UK submarines) and had dinner with Mr Macron several days later in Paris where he told him Australia was considering alternatives to the Attack-class submarines meant to be built by Naval Group.

Loading
“At our dinner I gave the opportunity for the French to respond to the matters I had raised and that took place over the next few months,” Mr Morrison said.

“Now, we eventually formed the view that we would agree to disagree and the Attack-class submarine would not meet our requirements and we decided, finally, only in the days before the announcement of the AUKUS arrangement(when the US and UK agreed they would let Australia have their nuclear submarine technology and going forward with that decision on nuclear submarines, was that decision finally made.

“And that occurred at the same time that I could be assured that we had a clear path forward for a nuclear submarine.
“I was not going to leave Australia stranded between two projects.”

Mr Morrison defended his handling of the affair by saying Australia was able to secure access to nuclear submarine technology possessed by only two other countries, the US and the UK.
The technology fits a nuclear reactor to a submarine without needing replacement or additional nuclear fuel during decades of service, a vital difference with the French model because it means Australia would not need a civil nuclear industry to maintain the vessel.
Loading
Mr Morrison noted that Mr Macron sent a French admiral to Australia after the dinner in Paris and the French defence industry mobilised to try to save the deal, proof in his view that the French knew the contract could be cancelled.
“There was a three-month period when the issues that had been raised were being discussed between French and Australian officials and the Naval Group,” he said.

“There’s no easy way to say to a contractor that you are going to not proceed through the next gate of the contract.”

And then leaks a private message from a world leader.....to murdoch!
Pity you dont see the reply though?

 

[sptrawler]

And then leaks a private message from a world leader.....to murdoch!
Pity you dont see the reply though?

It will be all patched up in 6 months time, Albo will be in and will re instate the French sub deal, rinse, wash, repeat.

The good thing to come out of this IMO, is that no matter what relationship with another country, when it comes to money it overrides everything. I certainly hope Australia has a longer memory, than France obviously does, and Turnbull for that matter.