Australian Politics General...

[wayneL]

The Victorian pandemic act, that give Mao Tse Dan basically unfettered power by decree.

Comment:

 

[sptrawler]

The Victorian pandemic act, that give Mao Tse Dan basically unfettered power by decree.

Comment:

That's a bit out there, now that the covid measures are reducing and 80% vaccination is imminent, one would think all those sort of penalties will be removed.
Having said that Australians do love to be told what to do, they are naturally apathetic and reserved.
Just the way they come, so if the Government want to leave the rules there, I don't think there will be much of an outcry.

 

[mullokintyre]

I am appalled at the level of power the Victorian government is attempting to gain.
the ridiculous draconian fines is a hallmark of the labour government.
I will not bow to the ba$tards.
I am quite prepared to fight this legislation.
To paraphrase Tom Waits, if you don't receive my postings, it means that I am in jail.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

The Victorian pandemic act, that give Mao Tse Dan basically unfettered power by decree.

Comment:

Seems a bit extreme, but it's on his head.

 

[PZ99]

hehe... it doesn't seem that long ago that some of us decried unelected bureaucrats making policy pronouncements so if we now saying the elected folks can't do it either who is left to make the calls? The protestors ? Conspiracy theorists ? Craig Kelly ? Andrew Bolt ?

No thanks

 

[mullokintyre]

I don't want any of the ba$tards making decisions.
I am happy to make my own and wear the consequences.
I want all the dogooders, experts, policy wonks , power mongers and charlatans to look after their own lives and leave me alone.
Mick

 

[basilio]

I don't want any of the ba$tards making decisions.
I am happy to make my own and wear the consequences.
I want all the dogooders, experts, policy wonks , power mongers and charlatans to look after their own lives and leave me alone.
Mick

Is this simply about not being vaccinated Mull ? As far as I can see the laws are just about ensuring most (not all) shops have fully vaccinated staff and customers.

 

[rederob]

Is this simply about not being vaccinated Mull ? As far as I can see the laws are just about ensuring most (not all) shops have fully vaccinated staff and customers.

If the antivaxxers played by the rules from the outset then their would be no need for the legislation.
Neither WA or Queensland have had to worry because their populations seem to have worked out that covid is a killer - economy and people.
Covid isn't just about YOU. It's about what you might have that we can't afford.

 

[sptrawler]

The Victorian pandemic act, that give Mao Tse Dan basically unfettered power by decree.

Just saw this article in the Age, I see what you mean, a $90k fine or two years in goal seems a bit over the top. It wont be long before "public health breaches", will incur more severe consequences than a lot of the criminal code.
I hope the Premier and health minister don't have a rush of blood and declare a bad flu season a pandemic, then send in the troops. ?
Victorians, you have to love them don't you.

‘Draconian’: Government introduces new pandemic laws into Parliament

Health Minister Martin Foley said transparent decision-making was at the heart of the new legislation, but the Opposition decried it as an “incredible attack on democracy”.

www.theage.com.au

From the article:
People found guilty of “intentionally and recklessly” breaching public health orders would face two years in jail or a $90,000 fine, the premier will get sweeping powers to declare pandemics and the public’s right to privacy will be enshrined in law under pandemic legislation introduced by the Andrews government.
The new pandemic-specific laws, which will replace state-of-emergency powers when they expire on December 15, curtail the chief health officer’s powers, giving the premier authority to declare a pandemic and the health minister the role of making public health orders.

 

[mullokintyre]

Its got nothing to do with being vaxed or non vaxed or even being anti vax, and everything to do with government control.
I believe in vaccinations, I am vaxed, will have boosters if they are required.
I am against coercion by threat.
If people don't want to get vaxed, thats fine by me.
If they get Covid and get sick or even die, thats is the risk choice they have made.
if we believe all the "science", being vaxed provides me with a layer of protection.
Not a perfect layer, but good enough for me to accept the risk.
if others don't accept the risk thats fine.
Let tham all stay locked down, wear their masks, keep away from the great unwashed. Thats their choice.
I am more than happy tp walk around with people who have not been vaxed.
Its a risk i am prepared to take.
Why did the government not just decree that each premises is allowed to make the choice about who they accept, as long as that fact it is displayed for all those who may enter.
Let people make the choice, its none of the governments business.
Its so much smarter than this constant theats and want to control everything.
But you cannot create a multiple classes of society based on their identity , their health, their religion, their ethnicity or colour.
I am also pi$$ed off with governments demanding that only certain people can do things or enter premises based on their vax state, but expect the owners of business to not only police their over the top laws, but then fine ridiculously high amounts of money if they fail to do the policing job.
Mick

 

[wayneL]

Its got nothing to do with being vaxed or non vaxed or even being anti vax, and everything to do with government control.
I believe in vaccinations, I am vaxed, will have boosters if they are required.
I am against coercion by threat.
If people don't want to get vaxed, thats fine by me.
If they get Covid and get sick or even die, thats is the risk choice they have made.
if we believe all the "science", being vaxed provides me with a layer of protection.
Not a perfect layer, but good enough for me to accept the risk.
if others don't accept the risk thats fine.
Let tham all stay locked down, wear their masks, keep away from the great unwashed. Thats their choice.
I am more than happy tp walk around with people who have not been vaxed.
Its a risk i am prepared to take.
Why did the government not just decree that each premises is allowed to make the choice about who they accept, as long as that fact it is displayed for all those who may enter.
Let people make the choice, its none of the governments business.
Its so much smarter than this constant theats and want to control everything.
But you cannot create a multiple classes of society based on their identity , their health, their religion, their ethnicity or colour.
I am also pi$$ed off with governments demanding that only certain people can do things or enter premises based on their vax state, but expect the owners of business to not only police their over the top laws, but then fine ridiculously high amounts of money if they fail to do the policing job.
Mick

Perfect, Mick.

In a liberal democracy this is exactly how we should all be thinking.

 

[rederob]

If they get Covid and get sick or even die, thats is the risk choice they have made.

It's the risk they unwittingly pass on to someone else, and they may die.

Let tham all stay locked down, wear their masks, keep away from the great unwashed. Thats their choice.

It's not something we all live with because some States have had people follow public health orders and avoid the issues of NSW and Victoria. Furthermore, public health orders are law, not choice. The fact you don't like these laws is not an invitation to break them.

I am more than happy tp walk around with people who have not been vaxed.

Not really the point - it's about public health, not individual rights. It's a point you will not concede because you keep making this about YOU.

Why did the government not just decree that each premises is allowed to make the choice about who they accept, as long as that fact it is displayed for all those who may enter.

Because that's patently absurd in a pandemic.

Let people make the choice, its none of the governments business.

Governments have a role in public health so it is definitely their responsibility .

Its so much smarter than this constant theats and want to control everything.

Unfortunately they have been necessitated because idiots choose to disobey public health orders.

But you cannot create a multiple classes of society based on their identity , their health, their religion, their ethnicity or colour.

Given we are talking only about the propensity of viral spread and mitigation controls you are bark at the wrong tree.

 

[IFocus]

Its got nothing to do with being vaxed or non vaxed or even being anti vax, and everything to do with government control.
I believe in vaccinations, I am vaxed, will have boosters if they are required.
I am against coercion by threat.
If people don't want to get vaxed, thats fine by me.
If they get Covid and get sick or even die, thats is the risk choice they have made.
if we believe all the "science", being vaxed provides me with a layer of protection.
Not a perfect layer, but good enough for me to accept the risk.
if others don't accept the risk thats fine.
Let tham all stay locked down, wear their masks, keep away from the great unwashed. Thats their choice.
I am more than happy tp walk around with people who have not been vaxed.
Its a risk i am prepared to take.
Why did the government not just decree that each premises is allowed to make the choice about who they accept, as long as that fact it is displayed for all those who may enter.
Let people make the choice, its none of the governments business.
Its so much smarter than this constant theats and want to control everything.
But you cannot create a multiple classes of society based on their identity , their health, their religion, their ethnicity or colour.
I am also pi$$ed off with governments demanding that only certain people can do things or enter premises based on their vax state, but expect the owners of business to not only police their over the top laws, but then fine ridiculously high amounts of money if they fail to do the policing job.
Mick

So what happens when they get sick and clog up the hospital system blocking treatment / ICU for others?

When that happens who pays?

 

[wayneL]

So what happens when they get sick and clog up the hospital system blocking treatment / ICU for others?

When that happens who pays?

In our state bro, McClown should pay for failing to beef up an already stressed medical system.

20 months in and done SFA.

 

[SirRumpole]

In our state bro, McClown should pay for failing to beef up an already stressed medical system.

20 months in and done SFA.

Most people in WA are looking at Victoria and NSW and saying thank God (McGowan) that's not happening here.

 

[wayneL]

Most people in WA are looking at Victoria and NSW and saying thank God (McGowan) that's not happening here.

Yeah, Thank God (the real God), because the medical system is ****ed.

Quite serious cases being ramped for 6-8 hours typically.

Any event... COVID, or any sort of minor multiple casualty event, or whatever, would be a total sh¹tshow.

The state has tons of cash, the best road system in Aus, a feckin Belltower bought at vast expense* so WTF is the holdup with expanding the public health system?

* https://elizabethquay.com.au/eq/see-do/attraction/the-bell-tower

 

[moXJO]

Most people in WA are looking at Victoria and NSW and saying thank God (McGowan) that's not happening here.

Not even covid is interested in WA.

 

[moXJO]

So what happens when they get sick and clog up the hospital system blocking treatment / ICU for others?

When that happens who pays?

Same people that smoke cigarettes, drink beer, have sex with stds and so on

 

[sptrawler]

In our state bro, McClown should pay for failing to beef up an already stressed medical system.

20 months in and done SFA.

Yet he bagged the $hit out of Barnett, for spending all the money on the hospitals and getting the State into deficit, ah politics don't you love it. ?

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah, Thank God (the real God), because the medical system is ****ed.

Quite serious cases being ramped for 6-8 hours typically.

Any event... COVID, or any sort of minor multiple casualty event, or whatever, would be a total sh¹tshow.

The state has tons of cash, the best road system in Aus, a feckin Belltower bought at vast expense* so WTF is the holdup with expanding the public health system?

* https://elizabethquay.com.au/eq/see-do/attraction/the-bell-tower

Getting a bit ahead of yourself their bud, being a newcomer.
The medical system before the last Government, was the same medical system that had been in place for the last 50 years.
Queues stuck in corridors on beds, in Royal Perth Hospital, while many sat for 12 hours in emergency, to get into the ques in the corridors, a mate who looked after his 92 year old mum and her 94 year old sister told some horror stories.
Barnett spent hugely on hospital infrastructure, despite a disparaging media and opposition, now we find the same opposition being derided because it isn't enough. How ironic.
By the way the bell tower cost $5million, it is the only real antique we have, apart from Brian Burke, Laurie Connell, Allan Bond etc.

$5 million bucks isn't a lot for a piece of history IMO, we are so keen here to bowl it over and build something new, that becomes old 20 years later.

The story of the Swan Bells - St Martin's Society of Change Ringers

How the historic twelve bells of St-Martin-in-the-Fields, London, came to Western Australia and are now rung at the Bell Tower, Perth.

stmartinssociety.org.au

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

From the story:
The economy under Barnett, however, continued to grow strongly — only dipping slightly during the global financial crisis — and the government found it difficult to slow spending as it strove to meet the needs of a fast-growing population.

An early warning sign came when the government, just months after being elected, decided to splash some of its cash by agreeing to a new pay deal for WA’s teachers that made them the highest paid in the nation.

Few begrudged the teachers a higher salary, but the generous agreement prompted other public servants to demand similar pay rises and made it much harder for the government to bring recurrent spending under control. Then in 2011, WA Police threatened industrial action during the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Perth unless pay demands were met. The result? A 13.25 per cent pay rise over three years, making the state’s police the best paid in the country.

The Barnett government’s other big drain on spending also had its genesis in 2008. To secure power after the cliffhanger election, Barnett agreed to Nationals leader Brendon Grylls’s demand for a new scheme, Royalties for Regions, that would redirect 25 per cent of the value of WA’s mining royalties to projects in the bush.

Much of the program’s spending helped to revive neglected regional centres. But as the state’s royalty revenue soared, Royalties for Regions was flooded with money, becoming a slush fund that the conservative think tank the Institute of Public Affairs found had “formalised pork-barrel politics on a massive, perhaps unprecedented scale’

Barnett also tapped into the boom-time mood by spending big on projects — roads, hospitals, schools, public transport, a glitzy new sports stadium and a Perth riverfront development — that he said were needed in a modern city.
Barnett has also ruled out big-ticket privatisations such as the sale of electricity assets.

He argues that WA’s utilities — including Western Power, Synergy and the Water Corporation of WA — should stay in public ownership because they are essential in promoting development across a sprawling state. Moreover, they provide a steady income stream for the government.
Asked how WA could find itself is such a difficult financial position after the biggest boom in history, Nahan said this week the government had used the windfall on the services and infrastructure required to support a population that has grown 30 per cent in the past 10 years.

“We have undertaken the largest renewal of assets in the state’s history. You name it, we’ve done it — up and down the coast,” he says.

“And we’ve had the highest paid, best-staffed and best conditions in the public service by far of any state. We spend more on every aspect of the public sector — education, health, mental health, disability services, child protection.

“The beneficiaries of the boom are people who use public services — and I think that is what people wanted.”

Funny how memories are so short lived IMO. McGowan doesn't have to spend much, because it was already done and he got the bonus of the increase in GST reabate.
really if Mcgowan had any humility he should be putting Barnett forward for a State award, but hey that not how politics works unfortunately.
I think they would be better off, if they did remove the tribalism.