PZ99
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Most of the best people are senators... apart from that Karen Andrews would be my pick. The rest of the Shadow cabinet are all dix
Most of the best people are senators... apart from that Karen Andrews would be my pick. The rest of the Shadow cabinet are all dixWho are the contenders?
None of the major egos in the party would want the job. They are on a hiding to nothing.
Someone is only going to knock him off if they think there is a chance to become PM.
Think he is safe for a while yet.
Mick
I think it's Dutton. Liberals also seem to want to play the populist card, Goodluck. Social media has basically been altering everyone's stance to become more progressive. Conservatives are taking the bait of using Trump talking points rather than sensible plans forward.Internal Newscorp polling at Aston by-election shows that the Liberals are presently perceived as the nasty party.
I don't think social media makes everyone more progressive, look at some people here, but I do think its a cul de sac of their own making. I think Newscorp keep fking them also (through their base who religiously watch their sht and attacking anyone in the party who has a moderate view).I think it's Dutton. Liberals also seem to want to play the populist card, Goodluck. Social media has basically been altering everyone's stance to become more progressive. Conservatives are taking the bait of using Trump talking points rather than sensible plans forward.
Liberals need to do the hard yards. Not cheap tricks.
I don't think it really matters.I think it's Dutton. Liberals also seem to want to play the populist card, Goodluck. Social media has basically been altering everyone's stance to become more progressive. Conservatives are taking the bait of using Trump talking points rather than sensible plans forward.
Liberals need to do the hard yards. Not cheap tricks.
Forgive me but that argument is crap. Everyone used to be in a Union yet the Libs got in regularly.I don't think it really matters.
There has been a fundamental but seismic shift that you allude to.
There are now so many people employed by, or are dependent on the government for money, that Labour will now become the natural party of government.
They will eventually corrupt themselves to death (they have form), just as the Liberal party has done.
People are going to vote for whoever gives them the most, and progressive policies are hat the state controls everything, and all are dependant on the stet.
Its not something I agree with or relish, but that is what the evolution of society is all about.
Always comfortable about being in the minority, its good for the soul.
Mick
People's views on lgbt, race and the use of certain words, climate change, women's issues have all been pushed and ingrained whether you supported it or not. Through a lot of different tactics.I don't think social media makes everyone more progressive, look at some people here, but I do think its a cul de sac of their own making. I think Newscorp keep fking them also (through their base who religiously watch their sht and attacking anyone in the party who has a moderate view).
Well does that not support my argument that there has been a fundamental shift in attitudes?Forgive me but that argument is crap. Everyone used to be in a Union yet the Libs got in regularly.
My brother is a nurse, in a union, yet he voted Liberal in the State election as he want the Eastern link to be built.
Sorry, that does not make sense.That was a tradies seat, supposedly Melbourne's safest seat and yet even they are now Labor, one 31 year old tradie said on camera the Libs haven't a clue so he felt he had to vote Labor for the first time.
Once again, it reinforces my point about people wanting to vote for the government that gives them most.Can you tell me a single policy to encourage people under 35 to vote for them? Repealing the Superannuation laws to help Geoff Wilson with his $544,000,000 in super? That was all Dutton could point to on Insiders and the fact that they would bring back the Eastern link road.
Absolutely. I think it goes a bit further than that though.Probably the fact that the Libs stuffed up energy policy so completely convinced many that they really didn't have it in them to do the reforms necessary to build an energy network for the future.
Tradies are/were big coalition supporters. I know lots of them. More than anyone else they support the Libs.Well does that not support my argument that there has been a fundamental shift in attitudes?
Your brother voted for something that would benefit him, which is what i suggested was happening in general, because so many people are dependant on the government now.
Sorry, that does not make sense.
Tradies were traditionally Labour supporters, Howard turned them into aspirational voters.
What they are now, is not what attracted them to the coalition.
What has changed since Howard ran the libs and now?
The party has moved more centrist if anything, and the response of the feds when the pandemic hit was purely out of centrist government play book where the eventual cost of the myriad of support structures will take years to recover.
Once again, it reinforces my point about people wanting to vote for the government that gives them most.
Under 35 need Childcare support, they need low interest rates, don't give a rats about super as its way into the future,
Those over 35 have a different set of requirements that may or may not be met by labour, but its patently obvious that a good percentage of them voted for Labour as well.
I wonder how many of the voters on Saturday voted the way they did because of the various reactions of politicians to the Voice?
Its something completely remote from their lives and see little or no consequences to them .
I have no idea what sort of things the the Liberals need to change to become relevant, but becoming a lite version of labor is not one them.
Mick
Those are all the talking points of the left and nothing whatsoever to do with why Liberal voters have deserted the party, not directly anyway. If the liberals came on board with all of those points they would lose even more voters, as that would essentially make them the Labor Party Mark11.Absolutely. I think it goes a bit further than that though.
I believe the last Liberal government was incompetent bordering on totally hopeless. Climate policy was basically denial. Renewing the energy system to use cheaper more environmentally friendly renewable technology was studiously undermined/avoided. Trashing electric cars for instance. Even if one wasn't a believer in the need to reduce carbon emissions the economic value of the shift is undeniable - unless your in thrall with the gas industry.
Another millstone around the Coalitions neck was the Robo Debt saga. It was always a steaming pile of merde. Repeated efforts to defend it and sweep it under the carpet just reinforced peoples perception of what a horrible bunch of pollies they were.
On the other hand the Albanese Government has been strikingly hard working and effective in its 10 months in office.They have negotiated a way forward on climate policy which will require even more effort to implement. The Royal Commission into Robo debt served the purpose of uncovering how illegal public policy practices can be allowed to continue even while they are causing people to commit suicide. The fact that this reflected very poorly on the previous government is just an example of chickens coming home.
Overall the electorate has decided Labour looks more effective and a better manager than the Libs. I would also guess that people have no confidence that the sorts of policy decisions made by the Libs that weren't practical, ie energy policy, climate policy, were being reviewed. They were offering more of the same.
In addition hard right sections of the Libs were dog whistling furiously on trans issues and anti vaccination. If you strongly believed in these issues well and good. If you thought they were either crackers or overdone you would be even less likely to vote for the current Liberal leadership.
Hence Bridget Archers summing up as quoted by Knobby
" I think the party needs to stop ideological dog whistling and return to centrist Liberal values.
You've got ideological culture warriors who rather lose the election than make space for diversity of views, and that's a problem... it's a choice between ideology and electability."
Peter Dutton cannot win government without Victoria, and there are more challenges on the horizon
Liberal Leader Peter Dutton is caught in the blustery winds of political change, and the party's compass is still spinning, writes political editor Andrew Probyn.www.abc.net.au
Those are all the talking points of the left and nothing whatsoever to do with why Liberal voters have deserted the party, not directly anyway. If the liberals came on board with all of those points they would lose even more voters, as that would essentially make them the Labor Party Mark11.
That's not what Liberal voters want.
Albo being viewed so far as a moderate is probably giving the states some kick.
But could it also be a case of the public eye being on the libs?
Scratch the surface on Labor and there's a stinking mess waiting to jump out.
Albo is only viewed as moderate because of the current Overton window. This is this is the same reason why those of the centre right are being viewed as Nazis.
I wouldn't categorise Albo as far left at this stage, but in no way is he a moderate on the grand scale of things.
Are you saying The Voice is a culture war ?Labor have for some time embraced neoliberalism which expels them from the left of politics, intern its pushed conservatives further right into culture wars that have little or no impact on the general population.
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