PZ99
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Most of the best people are senators... apart from that Karen Andrews would be my pick. The rest of the Shadow cabinet are all dix
Australian Politics General...
- Thread starter MrBurns
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I think it's Dutton. Liberals also seem to want to play the populist card, Goodluck. Social media has basically been altering everyone's stance to become more progressive. Conservatives are taking the bait of using Trump talking points rather than sensible plans forward.
Liberals need to do the hard yards. Not cheap tricks.
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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I don't think social media makes everyone more progressive, look at some people here, but I do think its a cul de sac of their own making. I think Newscorp keep fking them also (through their base who religiously watch their sht and attacking anyone in the party who has a moderate view).
Liberal MP Bridget Archer nails it:
" I think the party needs to stop ideological dog whistling and return to centrist Liberal values.
You've got ideological culture warriors who rather lose the election than make space for diversity of views, and that's a problem... it's a choice between ideology and electability."
They should make her the leader. Won't happen.
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I don't think it really matters.
There has been a fundamental but seismic shift that you allude to.
There are now so many people employed by, or are dependent on the government for money, that Labour will now become the natural party of government.
They will eventually corrupt themselves to death (they have form), just as the Liberal party has done.
People are going to vote for whoever gives them the most, and progressive policies are hat the state controls everything, and all are dependant on the stet.
Its not something I agree with or relish, but that is what the evolution of society is all about.
Always comfortable about being in the minority, its good for the soul.
Mick
Knobby22
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Forgive me but that argument is crap. Everyone used to be in a Union yet the Libs got in regularly.
My brother is a nurse, in a union, yet he voted Liberal in the State election as he want the Eastern link to be built.
That was a tradies seat, supposedly Melbourne's safest seat and yet even they are now Labor, one 31 year old tradie said on camera the Libs haven't a clue so he felt he had to vote Labor for the first time.
Can you tell me a single policy to encourage people under 35 to vote for them? Repealing the Superannuation laws to help Geoff Wilson with his $544,000,000 in super? That was all Dutton could point to on Insiders and the fact that they would bring back the Eastern link road.
People's views on lgbt, race and the use of certain words, climate change, women's issues have all been pushed and ingrained whether you supported it or not. Through a lot of different tactics.
Constant message being on point, is to destroy long held beliefs and soften them. So the held positions can eventually be dragged further to the direction you want. People's minds aren't changed because they wanted to. They get whittled down and will readjust to what they will tolerate.
A lot of the time you won't notice it. Even those here that are at the furthest right have softened stances. It's not always a bad thing.
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Probably the fact that the Libs stuffed up energy policy so completely convinced many that they really didn't have it in them to do the reforms necessary to build an energy network for the future.
I'm not sure Labor has it in them either, but the Libs wasted 9 years so let's see what Labor can do.
I think a lot of people underrate the energy situation, the media seems obsessed with The Voice but which affects very few people. Energy, education , inflation and health are what most people vote on. Time both parties realised that.
I'm not sure Labor has it in them either, but the Libs wasted 9 years so let's see what Labor can do.
I think a lot of people underrate the energy situation, the media seems obsessed with The Voice but which affects very few people. Energy, education , inflation and health are what most people vote on. Time both parties realised that.
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Well does that not support my argument that there has been a fundamental shift in attitudes?
Your brother voted for something that would benefit him, which is what i suggested was happening in general, because so many people are dependant on the government now.
Sorry, that does not make sense.
Tradies were traditionally Labour supporters, Howard turned them into aspirational voters.
What they are now, is not what attracted them to the coalition.
What has changed since Howard ran the libs and now?
The party has moved more centrist if anything, and the response of the feds when the pandemic hit was purely out of centrist government play book where the eventual cost of the myriad of support structures will take years to recover.
Once again, it reinforces my point about people wanting to vote for the government that gives them most.
Under 35 need Childcare support, they need low interest rates, don't give a rats about super as its way into the future,
Those over 35 have a different set of requirements that may or may not be met by labour, but its patently obvious that a good percentage of them voted for Labour as well.
I wonder how many of the voters on Saturday voted the way they did because of the various reactions of politicians to the Voice?
Its something completely remote from their lives and see little or no consequences to them .
I have no idea what sort of things the the Liberals need to change to become relevant, but becoming a lite version of labor is not one them.
Mick
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Absolutely. I think it goes a bit further than that though.
I believe the last Liberal government was incompetent bordering on totally hopeless. Climate policy was basically denial. Renewing the energy system to use cheaper more environmentally friendly renewable technology was studiously undermined/avoided. Trashing electric cars for instance. Even if one wasn't a believer in the need to reduce carbon emissions the economic value of the shift is undeniable - unless your in thrall with the gas industry.
Another millstone around the Coalitions neck was the Robo Debt saga. It was always a steaming pile of merde. Repeated efforts to defend it and sweep it under the carpet just reinforced peoples perception of what a horrible bunch of pollies they were.
On the other hand the Albanese Government has been strikingly hard working and effective in its 10 months in office.They have negotiated a way forward on climate policy which will require even more effort to implement. The Royal Commission into Robo debt served the purpose of uncovering how illegal public policy practices can be allowed to continue even while they are causing people to commit suicide. The fact that this reflected very poorly on the previous government is just an example of chickens coming home.
Overall the electorate has decided Labour looks more effective and a better manager than the Libs. I would also guess that people have no confidence that the sorts of policy decisions made by the Libs that weren't practical, ie energy policy, climate policy, were being reviewed. They were offering more of the same.
In addition hard right sections of the Libs were dog whistling furiously on trans issues and anti vaccination. If you strongly believed in these issues well and good. If you thought they were either crackers or overdone you would be even less likely to vote for the current Liberal leadership.
Hence Bridget Archers summing up as quoted by Knobby
" I think the party needs to stop ideological dog whistling and return to centrist Liberal values.
You've got ideological culture warriors who rather lose the election than make space for diversity of views, and that's a problem... it's a choice between ideology and electability."
Peter Dutton cannot win government without Victoria, and there are more challenges on the horizon
Liberal Leader Peter Dutton is caught in the blustery winds of political change, and the party's compass is still spinning, writes political editor Andrew Probyn.
www.abc.net.au
Knobby22
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Tradies are/were big coalition supporters. I know lots of them. More than anyone else they support the Libs.
But why should anyone under 35 vote for them? Can you think of a single policy?
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Those are all the talking points of the left and nothing whatsoever to do with why Liberal voters have deserted the party, not directly anyway. If the liberals came on board with all of those points they would lose even more voters, as that would essentially make them the Labor Party Mark11.Absolutely. I think it goes a bit further than that though.
I believe the last Liberal government was incompetent bordering on totally hopeless. Climate policy was basically denial. Renewing the energy system to use cheaper more environmentally friendly renewable technology was studiously undermined/avoided. Trashing electric cars for instance. Even if one wasn't a believer in the need to reduce carbon emissions the economic value of the shift is undeniable - unless your in thrall with the gas industry.
Another millstone around the Coalitions neck was the Robo Debt saga. It was always a steaming pile of merde. Repeated efforts to defend it and sweep it under the carpet just reinforced peoples perception of what a horrible bunch of pollies they were.
On the other hand the Albanese Government has been strikingly hard working and effective in its 10 months in office.They have negotiated a way forward on climate policy which will require even more effort to implement. The Royal Commission into Robo debt served the purpose of uncovering how illegal public policy practices can be allowed to continue even while they are causing people to commit suicide. The fact that this reflected very poorly on the previous government is just an example of chickens coming home.
Overall the electorate has decided Labour looks more effective and a better manager than the Libs. I would also guess that people have no confidence that the sorts of policy decisions made by the Libs that weren't practical, ie energy policy, climate policy, were being reviewed. They were offering more of the same.
In addition hard right sections of the Libs were dog whistling furiously on trans issues and anti vaccination. If you strongly believed in these issues well and good. If you thought they were either crackers or overdone you would be even less likely to vote for the current Liberal leadership.
Hence Bridget Archers summing up as quoted by Knobby
" I think the party needs to stop ideological dog whistling and return to centrist Liberal values.
You've got ideological culture warriors who rather lose the election than make space for diversity of views, and that's a problem... it's a choice between ideology and electability."
Peter Dutton cannot win government without Victoria, and there are more challenges on the horizon
Liberal Leader Peter Dutton is caught in the blustery winds of political change, and the party's compass is still spinning, writes political editor Andrew Probyn.
That's not what Liberal voters want.
Knobby22
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It's not just the young though. the total Lib vote in Aston has dropped 15% since the previous election, mostly going to Labor!!
I like this explanation for the loss. How the Liberal party got Liberal voters to stop voting Liberal.
It’s not good that the leaders keep changing but at least Morrison seems like a normal, suburban bloke. You get behind him at the 2019 election. After that, Tudge loses his bearings. There’s a scandal. Is he still education minister? Hard to say. The government seems to have lost its way: for every good decision it makes on the pandemic, it makes a poor one. You’re not quite sure what its purpose is. Your Liberal-voting neighbours say they won’t vote for Morrison and Tudge again at the 2022 election, but you do, without much conviction. Maybe it’s time the other crowd had a go. You’ve been ambivalent in the past but climate change and wages do need more attention.
Dutton takes over. You find out that Morrison was up to all sorts of bizarre stuff, giving himself ministries. Hardly any of his colleagues seem to be outraged.
Meanwhile, Dutton and his frontbench and party room embark on opposing everything. It doesn’t matter what it is, they’re against it. Problems have been mounting for a while. The world is changing. You might not like some of it, but you can see it, why can’t the Liberals?
Dutton keeps blaming Albanese for the rising cost of living. You know it’s more complex than that; he’s hardly been in office long enough to either cause it or fix it. This is just a continuation of the lack of direction under Morrison. On Saturday, disillusioned, and unhappy that you’ve had to vote for the third time inside 11 months because Tudge decided to head off into the sunset, you put a “1” next to Doyle’s name on the ballot paper. At the least the Labor Party under the unthreatening Albanese seems to have some ideas and goals. That’s how you stop voting Liberal.
www.theage.com.au
I like this explanation for the loss. How the Liberal party got Liberal voters to stop voting Liberal.
It’s not good that the leaders keep changing but at least Morrison seems like a normal, suburban bloke. You get behind him at the 2019 election. After that, Tudge loses his bearings. There’s a scandal. Is he still education minister? Hard to say. The government seems to have lost its way: for every good decision it makes on the pandemic, it makes a poor one. You’re not quite sure what its purpose is. Your Liberal-voting neighbours say they won’t vote for Morrison and Tudge again at the 2022 election, but you do, without much conviction. Maybe it’s time the other crowd had a go. You’ve been ambivalent in the past but climate change and wages do need more attention.
Dutton takes over. You find out that Morrison was up to all sorts of bizarre stuff, giving himself ministries. Hardly any of his colleagues seem to be outraged.
Meanwhile, Dutton and his frontbench and party room embark on opposing everything. It doesn’t matter what it is, they’re against it. Problems have been mounting for a while. The world is changing. You might not like some of it, but you can see it, why can’t the Liberals?
Dutton keeps blaming Albanese for the rising cost of living. You know it’s more complex than that; he’s hardly been in office long enough to either cause it or fix it. This is just a continuation of the lack of direction under Morrison. On Saturday, disillusioned, and unhappy that you’ve had to vote for the third time inside 11 months because Tudge decided to head off into the sunset, you put a “1” next to Doyle’s name on the ballot paper. At the least the Labor Party under the unthreatening Albanese seems to have some ideas and goals. That’s how you stop voting Liberal.
How Dutton and the Liberals lost the voters of Aston
The seat was the last remnant of the Liberals’ glory days in outer-eastern Melbourne. Now, following months of negativity and delusional behaviour from the party, it is gone.
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Do I take it that you are still miffed at the restrictions imposed during covid ?
I think this may be an issue for a small number of (previously) Liberal voters but the main issue I believe is lack of talent and diversity in the Liberal ranks. There is Dutton and er well.... Fletcher, Taylor, Robert , and of course Morrison's ghost. Egregious exits like Porter and now Tudge. No one inspiring or showing any sense of revitalisation, just grey men and a few women tacked on for show.
All that and 9 years of nothing adds up.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Saw some good comments the other day re Liberals.
The point was the down fall started with Howard dog whistling immigrants and side lining / isolating moderates all the time saying the party was a large church.
This morphed into culture wars distraction from real issue policies (note the threads here on ASF)
The silencing of moderates continued under Abbott and co ending with the take over from the religious right where the Liberal party long representation across the Australian divide no longer exists.
What's left is an illogical mob largely built from US style Republican divulsive political culture.
The point was the down fall started with Howard dog whistling immigrants and side lining / isolating moderates all the time saying the party was a large church.
This morphed into culture wars distraction from real issue policies (note the threads here on ASF)
The silencing of moderates continued under Abbott and co ending with the take over from the religious right where the Liberal party long representation across the Australian divide no longer exists.
What's left is an illogical mob largely built from US style Republican divulsive political culture.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Certainly potential in Queensland and Victoria due to longer serving governments but unlikely federally due to new incumbency, Albanese is from the so called left faction (not really anywhere left these days) and is playing it in all carefully and in moderation choosing his battles against failures of the previous 10 years.
Regardless of the Liberal situation its nice not to see ideological rubbish dressed up in total BS presented every day complete with pamphlets.
Still very early days, from the outside looks to me he is playing the long game.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Lessons for Dutton: Play on the fringes, get fringe political results
Instead, in recent weeks we have seen some Victorian Liberal MPs continue to narrow that base by promoting or defending public rallies that marginalise the LGBTQI community.
RELATED ARTICLE
Byelection
‘We need to stop dog whistling’: MPs call for Dutton to return Liberal Party to centre
This is taking place at a time when middle Australia is increasingly socially progressive but economically anxious. They don’t find the culture wars personally relevant either in terms of reflecting their concerns for the present or addressing their hopes and fears about the future.The problem the Liberal Party is now discovering is that when you start playing on the political fringes, you start getting fringe political party results.
Lessons for Dutton: Play on the fringes, get fringe political results
Liberal voters are now asset owners and those over the age of 50. We’ve lost the tertiary-educated, migrant families, professional women, renters and those under 50.
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Albo is only viewed as moderate because of the current Overton window. This is this is the same reason why those of the centre right are being viewed as Nazis.
I wouldn't categorise Albo as far left at this stage, but in no way is he a moderate on the grand scale of things.
I wouldn't categorise Albo as far left at this stage, but in no way is he a moderate on the grand scale of things.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Labor have for some time embraced neoliberalism which expels them from the left of politics, intern its pushed conservatives further right into culture wars that have little or no impact on the general population.
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Are you saying The Voice is a culture war ?
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